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Topic: RE: Malik Zaire

Topic: RE: Malik Zaire

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Bcat2
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 10:25:43 AM

bshot44 wrote:

As far as QB play improving since 2014...there's only one stat that matters.

8-5.
8-6.

Those should change with better play under center

Well, those numbers are meaningless without showing 2014.

2014. 6-6, 20.5 pts/gm,
2015. 8-5, 27.5 pts/gm, better
2016. 8-6, 27.6 pts/gm, East Championship

Since 2014, yes those do show change since 2014.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

OhioCatFan
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 10:48:51 AM

allen, that others are using the old terminology doesn't mean much. Some people still use D-1a and D-1aa, and most readers understand what they mean, but it's not the correct name for those divisions any more. It's now FBS and FCS. I understood what you meant when you said BCS Bowl, and I suspect most others did, too. However, it's better to use the correct terms when you know what they are. Let's just move on. I see no value in rehashing this over and over.

For the record, I'd love t have Malik Zaire at QB for OHIO next year. I suspect he would guide us to a MACC. The dude from UMich might be able to do that too. Also, the JUCO transfer looks very good to me. We may go from QB-poor to QB-rich next year. That would be an unusual luxury for OHIO in modern times.

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L.C.
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 11:01:48 AM

bshot44 wrote:

As far as QB play improving since 2014...there's only one stat that matters.

8-5.
8-6.

Those should change with better play under center

Just to be clear, I did not say that overall quarterback play improved. What I did say is that the individual quarterbacks all improved significantly. It is my opinion that the base talent level of recent quarterbacks like Vick, Sprague, and Windham has not been as high as say Boo, T3, and TT, but that they all played to their full potential.

The next step is to get more talent into the system, and I think we're seeing that, now. Maxwell was not an all MAC QB this year, but he was only a freshman. If he continues to improve each year, he could be quite good before he leaves. Similarly, I think Rourke and Keszei come in with tremendous talent, and presumably the mystery transfer does as well. If they come on with higher base talent, but continue to improve, it won't be long till we see significantly improved play on the field.

I do agree that for Ohio to significantly improve the win loss record they are going to need better QB play. I thought they could win the MAC this year on defense alone, and they damn near did, but couldn't quite get it done. The defense isn't going to get worse, but I think QB play is on the verge of significant improvement.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

allen
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 11:24:32 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 1:52:52 PM

L.C.--Can you expand upon why you think that the D will be better next year?

It would seem to me that our loss of several top players make your prediction reliable on a lot of improvement and/or additional time by guys who've not played much before for us.

That seems to be a reliance which hasn't panned out for us before.

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allen
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 2:06:32 PM

L.C. wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

As far as QB play improving since 2014...there's only one stat that matters.

8-5.
8-6.

Those should change with better play under center

LC, I agree with most of this, we need to shore up the corner back position. I can't wait to see Mayne Williams and Hagan at safety. We also need to add some wide receivers. I think Cherry may play right away and i hear that Odom is fast and good.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

L.C.
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 12/31/2016 6:26:49 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I don't think it will be better. I just don't think it will be worse, of if worse, not much worse. There are some heavy losses off the defense, without a doubt. Brown, Basham, Sayles, Laseak and Strobel will all be missed. On the other hand, Ohio has been recruiting the DL well for the last 5 years, and there are lots of players behind them who appear to have talent. Back in 2012 there was so little DL depth that when there was an injury, a true Freshman (Crutcher) was called into duty. Behind the guys that are leaving, we have people who have played, and played well, such as Robbins, Berger, Aloese, Chukwu and Porter, plus players that were highly touted as recruits who I have not seen yet, such as Arp and McKnight. The DL will be worse next year than this year, but I think there is so much depth, that it will still be OK.

Meanwhile, at the beginning of 2016 there was not a cornerback on the team who had played even a single down for the Bobcats. Worse, those that did win the starting job (M. Williams and Stites) were injured, and out for the season. Cornerback was an adventure. Next year Stites will be gone, but everyone else will return, and to them will be added Christian, who had to sit out after transferring, plus more talented Freshmen.

So...last year Ohio had an incredible front 7, but a weakness behind them. Next year the defense should be weaker up front, but stronger behind them. My expectation is that the net result will be similar.

Last Edited: 12/31/2016 6:29:34 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

bshot44
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/1/2017 11:29:14 AM

allen wrote:

I sent articles from 2016, I can resend them. If you want to have the last word, have it. I don't play semantics, you know what I am talking about.
From this Article.
The Broncos, ranked No. 21 in the latest College Football Playoff rankings , are looking to stay in contention for a BCS bowl bid and extend their overall win streak to 13, dating to last season. Western Michigan, which had never won 10 games in a season before, needs to win its final two regular-season games and the MAC championship to have a chance at a major bowl.
http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/reply.asp?ForumP...
From an AP site
PLAYOFF IMPLICATIONS

The Broncos, ranked No. 21 in the latest College Football Playoff rankings , are looking to stay in contention for a BCS bowl bid and extend their overall win streak to 13, dating to last season. Western Michigan, which had never won 10 games in a season before, needs to win its final two regular-season games and the MAC championship to have a chance at a major bowl.
http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/no-14-western-michi...

You made a mistake and were wrong. The AP obviously made a mistake (which they do a lot) and they are wrong. There is no such thing as the BCS anymore. It died in 2013. End. Of. Discussion.

bshot44
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/1/2017 11:36:33 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

We may go from QB-poor to QB-rich next year. That would be an unusual luxury for OHIO in modern times.

Sadly we said same thing about RBs...and look where that got us.

But I agree, on paper the QB position seems to be improving. Will all depend on whether Maxwell improves in his third year at Ohio...whether this Rourke is real deal from Canada...or this mystery transfer fits in and produces.

A lot of questions still at QB

bshot44
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/1/2017 11:40:18 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

As far as QB play improving since 2014...there's only one stat that matters.

8-5.
8-6.

Those should change with better play under center

What's meaningless is getting excited over 8-6. MAC East title aside, this was pretty ho-hum year...again in terms of wins and losses.

A couple games they should've won at home (TxSt, EMU)...and a bowl loss

It's like a broken record. Different year, same discussion.

Wake me when we break out of this rut and pull off a 11-3 season. Or hell a 12-2 year.

Too much to ask? Shouldn't be 13 years into this era

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/1/2017 12:53:15 PM

Thanks for the explanation, L.C.

Heavy losses vs. hoped-for performances/development. Gonna be tough to be as good as this year. This year was quite a good defense...but still 8-6.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 11:36:50 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Thanks for the explanation, L.C.

Heavy losses vs. hoped-for performances/development. Gonna be tough to be as good as this year. This year was quite a good defense...but still 8-6.

By most measures, Ohio's defense was the best in the MAC and by a good margin. It probably was one of the best run-stopping defenses in the MAC in many years. That part will be nearly impossible to repeat, but the pass defense no doubt should be improved. I'm just not sure it will be improved enough to make up for the drop-off that surely will occur up front. Still should be very good on defense.

L.C.
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 1:32:22 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

This is it - not as good up front, better in the back. How much total dropoff remains to be seen, but it will still be a good defense. Offense is quite a bit more of a mystery since we don't know who the QB will be. RB and TE return everyone. The OL returns most people. WR loses some good players, but has a lot of young players recruited in the last few years waiting to play, and doesn't concern me. QB is the wildcard. To make the 2017 team a step above 2016, Ohio needs a great QB. An improved Maxwell? Rourke in charge? A transfer stud?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 3:30:18 PM

Even if our defense is not as good talent or experience wise, how much would a more competent offense improve life for our defense? If our O-line makes a jump with their experience and we can get some decent quarterbacking, I think our defense could put up better numbers as far as points and yards go.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 4:30:32 PM

Defense likely to be markedly not as good as last year.

This year was the best D in many, many years.

Didn't we lead the nation in turnovers one year about 8 years ago? Since then?

Return to nearer our norm is very likely.

L.C.
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 5:37:33 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

The whole point, Monroe, is that the defense has been pretty good, year in, year out. The exception would be right after they switched to the Cover-4. During the first 2 years of the Cover-4 they had an unusually high number of "crashing losses", or whatever you called them, as teams exposed flaws in Ohio's implementation of the Cover-4. They seemed to have fixed most of those flaws, and the Cover-4 is working better now.

Going back, the three best defenses in recent years in terms of Scoring defense have been 2009 (21.3), 2011 (22.1), and 2016 (22.6), all three of which were MAC-East Championship years. The average is 24.2 points, so if Ohio slips back to the average, as you suggest, it won't be a huge drop.

By the way, comparing the 2009-13 years (Cover-2) with the 2014-16 years (Cover 4), the numbers are:
Points: Cover-2=23.9, Cover-4=24.2
Total Yards: Cover-2=371.6, Cover-4=377.4
Yards Rushing: Cover-2=153.3, Cover-4=135.2
Yards Passing: Cover-2=220.8, Cover-4=242.2
Pass Efficiency Def: Cover-2=122.9, Cover-4=128.9

So... the net effect is about the same. The cover-4 stops the run better, the cover-2 does better against the pass.

How was this year's defense? With a great front 7, and a suspect back 4 you'd expect to find great run defense, and poor pass defense, and that's exactly what you find. Against the run, the 104.4 yards given up was the best, by far, while the 255.8 yards that it gave up against the pass was the 2d worst, while the pass efficiency defense was the worst at 135.2.

If next year's defense moves towards the norm, expect the yards rushing to move up to 135, and the passing to come down a little to 235 or so, and the points to go up tad, to about 24. That would make it about the same as 2010.

Last Edited: 1/2/2017 5:40:11 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 5:48:04 PM

L.C. I still believe that you arrive at your predictions and conclusions based significantly on splinter statistics. Our front seven this year was really, really good.

But our D has not been that good overall for the Solich (can watch all games due to internet) era. It's been okay, better at times. By the eyeballs watching and the record belie your analysis.

Against the weak scheds we face, a good D alone would almost be enough to keep us under four losses. If our offense was even average, then MAC title game almost every year, from the way you regard our D.

With the losses in the front seven, it's very unlikely we'll be as good next year as this year.

allen
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 6:07:16 PM

I think we will be stout, we rotated a lot of guys and we had five redshirts who look pretty good on film. Cornerback will be the biggest worry on defense.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 6:09:09 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I think Deciduous Forest Cat hit the nail on the head. If Ohio's offense improves, if it scores more and can win the time-of-possession battle like WMU routinely did this year, won't that necessarily help OUr defense? Sometimes a defense's best friend is a good offense.

L.C.
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RE: Malik Zaire

Posted: 1/2/2017 7:09:51 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I agree, and this is a place where my "splinter statistics" fall down. If the offense had been better this year, this year's defense would have looked even better.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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