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Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 1:16:13 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.

I never insulted you personally,even though I don't agree with your misguided (that's a joke by the way) liberal views.

It would be nice if you would extend the same courtesy to people who you disagree with.



Share an example of President Obama doing anything remotely similar to this.

And I'm sorry that you feel that my pointing out your support for the current President is somehow insulting.
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 1:25:06 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 1:45:00 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


The Ckick-fil-a example is a particularly interesting one, because Conservatives were on the exact opposite side that they now are re: the NFL. If you recall, the Mayor of Boston made a statement basically saying that Chick-fil-a wasn't welcome in Boston.

And the right, and organizations like the ACLU, rightfully criticized the Mayor's overreach. But when Trump threatens the NFL's tax status? Whole different story.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 3:23:54 PM 
It is a workplace issue. Under the current collective bargaining agreement the players have the right to not stand for the national anthem. Per labor law the owners do not have the right to change the agreement at all. They need buy in from the players union (which is why goodell is saying they need more discussion on the issue). The league nor Jerry can currently force the players to stand anymore than they could demand a change in tv revenue sharing percentages. And even Rush Limbaugh agrees the president has no right to tell owners what to do. And by the way. The league does pay taxes (as of 2015) and team owners have always paid taxes on their profits.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 3:31:02 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


The Ckick-fil-a example is a particularly interesting one, because Conservatives were on the exact opposite side that they now are re: the NFL. If you recall, the Mayor of Boston made a statement basically saying that Chick-fil-a wasn't welcome in Boston.

And the right, and organizations like the ACLU, rightfully criticized the Mayor's overreach. But when Trump threatens the NFL's tax status? Whole different story.


I can you give you several examples,including Obama's blasting the actions of police officers.
But, they'll be reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context.

Same thing,Eminmen comes out with a profanity laced tirade against President Trump and he gets praised by people in the entertainment industry and people like Kapernick and Lebron.

What would have happened had a singer gone on a similar rant against Obama ?











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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 3:44:08 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


I can you give you several examples,including Obama's blasting the actions of police officers.
But, they'll be reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context.

Same thing,Eminmen comes out with a profanity laced tirade against President Trump and he gets praised by people in the entertainment industry and people like Kapernick and Lebron.

What would have happened had a singer gone on a similar rant against Obama ?





By all means, please cite your examples. I'm all ears.

As to your question, I believe Ted Nugent has a few words for you (though it's not similar because it's far more vile):

“We need to ride into that battlefield and chop their [the Obama administration’s] heads off in November. If Barack Obama becomes the next president in November, again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year."
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 3:58:44 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


The Ckick-fil-a example is a particularly interesting one, because Conservatives were on the exact opposite side that they now are re: the NFL. If you recall, the Mayor of Boston made a statement basically saying that Chick-fil-a wasn't welcome in Boston.

And the right, and organizations like the ACLU, rightfully criticized the Mayor's overreach. But when Trump threatens the NFL's tax status? Whole different story.


I can you give you several examples,including Obama's blasting the actions of police officers.
But, they'll be reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context.

Same thing,Eminmen comes out with a profanity laced tirade against President Trump and he gets praised by people in the entertainment industry and people like Kapernick and Lebron.

What would have happened had a singer gone on a similar rant against Obama ?



Yeah, you mentioned Obama and police officers once already in this thread and were asked to provide evidence. So, knock yourself out. Show me when Obama "blasted police officers."

Also, if a singer went on a crazy rant about Obama, he'd be invited to the White House by a sitting President: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/20/us/politics/sarah-pali... .

But this interaction actually brings us to the crux of my point about you: you're not interested in an honest analysis of policy or Obama's actions and words relative to Trump's. You've been asked to provide examples, avoided doing so, and defended that avoidance by falling back on this notion that even if you had done so, somebody would respond with "reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context."

In other words, you're explaining that you don't have to support your views, or have a conversation about them, because if you do, your views might be challenged.

Trump, despite all of his numerous flaws (which begins with his being completely unfit for the job) is an incredibly effective demagogue and incredibly good at weaponizing emotion and cultural issues to rile up his base and let them feel, constantly, like victims. Or to even feel victimized on others behalf, like in this instance. It's silly. Incredibly so. Just a bunch of snowflakes vainly hugging their own hurt feelings, too naive to understand that they were conned by the President into playing the role of PC police. And why? As a distraction from his complete and utter inability to govern. It's not a coincidence that this ramped up when he tripped over his own feet on healthcare again. And it's not a coincidence that he's attacking the press, and the very idea of the first amendment, now that the Russia stuff's looking particularly damning.

Which brings me back to the fish/barrel comment. He knows his base won't hold him accountable on actual governance so long as he keeps these culture wars going. And so here we are.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 4:39:59 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
It is a workplace issue. Under the current collective bargaining agreement the players have the right to not stand for the national anthem. Per labor law the owners do not have the right to change the agreement at all. They need buy in from the players union (which is why goodell is saying they need more discussion on the issue). The league nor Jerry can currently force the players to stand anymore than they could demand a change in tv revenue sharing percentages. And even Rush Limbaugh agrees the president has no right to tell owners what to do. And by the way. The league does pay taxes (as of 2015) and team owners have always paid taxes on their profits.


Lawsuit has already been filed on unfair labor practice on Jerry. It's a lock to be successful with the way he has publicly threatened his employees.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 4:41:55 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
It is a workplace issue. Under the current collective bargaining agreement the players have the right to not stand for the national anthem. Per labor law the owners do not have the right to change the agreement at all. They need buy in from the players union (which is why goodell is saying they need more discussion on the issue). The league nor Jerry can currently force the players to stand anymore than they could demand a change in tv revenue sharing percentages. And even Rush Limbaugh agrees the president has no right to tell owners what to do. And by the way. The league does pay taxes (as of 2015) and team owners have always paid taxes on their profits.


Only thing they do not pay taxes on is their charitable foundation which is a 501c and provides money to youth programming around the nation in the form of camps, equipment, and facilities to underserved communities.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 4:43:00 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


The Ckick-fil-a example is a particularly interesting one, because Conservatives were on the exact opposite side that they now are re: the NFL. If you recall, the Mayor of Boston made a statement basically saying that Chick-fil-a wasn't welcome in Boston.

And the right, and organizations like the ACLU, rightfully criticized the Mayor's overreach. But when Trump threatens the NFL's tax status? Whole different story.


I can you give you several examples,including Obama's blasting the actions of police officers.
But, they'll be reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context.

Same thing,Eminmen comes out with a profanity laced tirade against President Trump and he gets praised by people in the entertainment industry and people like Kapernick and Lebron.

What would have happened had a singer gone on a similar rant against Obama ?













Oh, you mean like Hank Jr., Ted Nugent, Kid Rock?
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/11/2017 8:37:08 PM 
And don't forget, Trump once endorsed Eminem for President. Of course, he'll undoubtedly take that endorsement back, not unlike what he recently did to Sen. Corker.
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DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/12/2017 12:07:39 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The public has every right to exert that pressure. The President -- our head of state -- shouldn't. You'd think small government proponents would agree.

Also: I never expected you to be aghast. I've seen enough of you in these threads to understand that policy has nothing to do with your political support. You're the fish. Trump's the guy with the gun standing next to the barrel.


Funny,I seem to recall former president Obama trying to exert pressure in favor of social issues he felt important.



This is the problem. Conservatives in this country have rewritten (very recent!) history in their minds. In no way, shape, or form did Obama ever behave like this. I can disagree wholeheartedly with the Bush administration and not have to make up stuff about George W. Bush the man. Why do we insist on making things up about Obama and pretending they're gospel? Remember when liberals were up in arms about Chick-fil-a and calling for boycotts? You know what the official line from Obama was? No you don't, because when asked about it he declined to comment. Because he was the President of the United States.


The Ckick-fil-a example is a particularly interesting one, because Conservatives were on the exact opposite side that they now are re: the NFL. If you recall, the Mayor of Boston made a statement basically saying that Chick-fil-a wasn't welcome in Boston.

And the right, and organizations like the ACLU, rightfully criticized the Mayor's overreach. But when Trump threatens the NFL's tax status? Whole different story.


I can you give you several examples,including Obama's blasting the actions of police officers.
But, they'll be reasons why that was different,or I misunderstood,or took something out of context.




Let's compare actual words:

Obama: "We're here to honor the memory and mourn the loss of five fellow Americans, to grieve with their loved ones, to support this community, and pray for the wounded, and to try and find some meaning amidst our sorrow.
For the men and women who protect and serve the people of Dallas, last Thursday began like any other day. Like most Americans, each day you get up, probably have too quick a breakfast, kiss your family goodbye, and you head to work.
But your work and the work of police officers across the country is like no other. For the moment you put on that uniform, you have answered a call that at any moment, even in the briefest interaction, may put your life in harm's way."

Trump: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out. He's fired. He's fired!"


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/16/2017 7:35:45 PM 
I guess it wasn't so easy finding instances where Obama was critical of cops.

By the way, today Trump lied and said other Presidents never called the family of slain soldiers to offer their condolences. He told that lie to cover for the fact that he didn't call the family of the four soldiers killed in Niger.

So if you're scoring at home, true support of the troops, and true Patriotism involves attacking the family of a soldier who was KIA, criticizing McCain for being a POW, and not acknowledging four soldiers killed in Niger. And all that's fine with Republicans. Just don't kneel at a football game.

Last Edited: 10/17/2017 12:07:26 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/16/2017 8:22:14 PM 
Nine months in as president, and I'm still surprised he can tell a lie to the country as easy as the rest of us breathe. Maybe I should just expect that from our president.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/17/2017 1:51:28 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Nine months in as president, and I'm still surprised he can tell a lie to the country as easy as the rest of us breathe. Maybe I should just expect that from our president.


How do you deal with this stuff when the older kids in your class make comments? As I visit schools each day I've been mulling this thought over on the drive between schools. It's a tough assignment for a teacher.

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/17/2017 2:04:48 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I guess it wasn't so easy finding instances where Obama was critical of cops.


There just might be a reason it was challenging.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/jul/... /
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/17/2017 2:51:01 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Nine months in as president, and I'm still surprised he can tell a lie to the country as easy as the rest of us breathe. Maybe I should just expect that from our president.


How do you deal with this stuff when the older kids in your class make comments? As I visit schools each day I've been mulling this thought over on the drive between schools. It's a tough assignment for a teacher.



Very rarely is it brought up among my sixth graders (11, 12 year olds). I had one boy last year, during the campaign season, talk highly of Trump. As is usually the case, I credited/blamed that on him parroting what he heard his mom say at home.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/17/2017 9:23:35 PM 
Support our Troops.

https://www.local10.com/news/politics/trump-speaks-to-wid...
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/18/2017 8:23:38 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Nine months in as president, and I'm still surprised he can tell a lie to the country as easy as the rest of us breathe. Maybe I should just expect that from our president.


And yet millions still defend him
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/18/2017 8:57:02 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Nine months in as president, and I'm still surprised he can tell a lie to the country as easy as the rest of us breathe. Maybe I should just expect that from our president.


And yet millions still defend him


Well it shouldn't be too surprising. They knew what they signed up for, right?


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/18/2017 4:02:18 PM 
Support our troops:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/tr... .
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/18/2017 4:54:46 PM 
Since someone mentioned the 110 doing a Simon and Garfunkel song, here's another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDYhQ4UAnA
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/19/2017 12:57:58 PM 
Chris Long donating his salary for the whole season. This is the same Chris Long who was criticized by conservatives for not visiting the White House with the Patriots.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/19/2017 1:27:46 PM 
L.C. wrote:
...One plausible path that we could go from here is to see dramatically more players doing this, and some fans doing it as well, followed by and even more dramatic drop in attendance and viewership, and a huge decrease in NFL revenues. Since many of the costs of an NFL franchise are fixed, that in turn would likely lead to a huge drop in the size of player contracts,...

Things seem to be progressing about as I expected. Attendance is down, ratings are down. Discussion of the appropriateness of actions by the police seems to have vanished, and been replaced by discussions of pro football and politics. It will be interesting to see, come free agent signing time, and come draft time, just how much smaller contracts are.

As a believer in the free market, it's always interesting to see how closely it behaves compared to what you'd expect.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 10/19/2017 3:13:18 PM 
L.C. wrote:
L.C. wrote:
...One plausible path that we could go from here is to see dramatically more players doing this, and some fans doing it as well, followed by and even more dramatic drop in attendance and viewership, and a huge decrease in NFL revenues. Since many of the costs of an NFL franchise are fixed, that in turn would likely lead to a huge drop in the size of player contracts,...

Things seem to be progressing about as I expected. Attendance is down, ratings are down. Discussion of the appropriateness of actions by the police seems to have vanished, and been replaced by discussions of pro football and politics. It will be interesting to see, come free agent signing time, and come draft time, just how much smaller contracts are.

As a believer in the free market, it's always interesting to see how closely it behaves compared to what you'd expect.


I mean, sure, it played out predictably. But that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

That the line for so many NFL fans was national anthem protests says a lot. They were fine with their teams employing people who have been convicted of domestic abuse and fine with watching a sport that basically slowly kills everybody who plays it for a prolonged period. But this? Line in the sand.

Outside of the NCAA, this couldn't be happening to a better group of people. I hope the players union strikes on top of all of this. That's long over due, given the salary structure of the league relative to revenues.
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