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Topic:  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?

Topic:  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 2:31:27 PM 
L.C. wrote:
allen wrote:
... The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe

You stay safe, too, allen. Good advice. The WHO finally admitted that it is airborne today, so they are catching up to you.


That's not exactly what the WHO said.

From what I've read, they said that the likelihood that the virus can go
airborne in . . . "cannot be ruled out".

The WHO also acknowledged "more research is needed".

That's not exactly definitive.

The WHO's chief scientist also said that "there's still no concrete proof that airborne transmission of coronavirus is happening".

She did say this warranted proper attention and additional precautions.

She also said the virus "does not appear to be truly airborne".
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L.C.
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Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 3:13:16 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
allen wrote:
... The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe

You stay safe, too, allen. Good advice. The WHO finally admitted that it is airborne today, so they are catching up to you.


That's not exactly what the WHO said.

From what I've read, they said that the likelihood that the virus can go
airborne in . . . "cannot be ruled out".

The WHO also acknowledged "more research is needed".

That's not exactly definitive.

The WHO's chief scientist also said that "there's still no concrete proof that airborne transmission of coronavirus is happening".

She did say this warranted proper attention and additional precautions.

She also said the virus "does not appear to be truly airborne".

The WHO "acknowledged "emerging evidence" of the airborne spread of the coronavirus". They still maintain that airborne transmission is just a small part of how the virus is transmitted. They plan to issue a scientific brief on the topic in the next few days.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/who-acknowledg...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-says-coronav...

Here is their current guidance:
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid...
The WHO wrote:
There have been reported outbreaks of COVID-19 in some closed settings, such as restaurants, nightclubs, places of worship or places of work where people may be shouting, talking, or singing. In these outbreaks, aerosol transmission, particularly in these indoor locations where there are crowded and inadequately ventilated spaces where infected persons spend long periods of time with others, cannot be ruled out. More studies are urgently needed to investigate such instances and assess their significance for transmission of COVID-19."


Even admitting that aerosol transmission may be possible outside of specific hospital procedures is a big step.

Last Edited: 7/10/2020 3:16:19 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 3:31:06 PM 
There was a story on the news this morning that New York is now allowing
shopping centers to install MERV filters and then they can open.

That approach would seem to solve a lot of indoor activity problems.
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L.C.
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Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 6:18:51 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
There was a story on the news this morning that New York is now allowing
shopping centers to install MERV filters and then they can open.

That approach would seem to solve a lot of indoor activity problems.

What level MERV? 6-10 (which are the most common, and will work with most HVACs)? MERV is definitely cheaper and faster to install than any alternative.

Here's an article that compares various approaches to cleaning the air:
https://americanvintagehome.com/indoor-air-quality/air-fi... /

They recommend an in duct hydro-peroxide plasma purifier, and doesn't give HEPA or MERV much credit for any virus particles they may trap.

Back in early February I made a decision to go with a combination of HEPA and UV-C.

Last Edited: 7/10/2020 6:31:00 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 1:54:44 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
allen wrote:
... The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe

You stay safe, too, allen. Good advice. The WHO finally admitted that it is airborne today, so they are catching up to you.


That's not exactly what the WHO said.

From what I've read, they said that the likelihood that the virus can go
airborne in . . . "cannot be ruled out".

The WHO also acknowledged "more research is needed".

That's not exactly definitive.

The WHO's chief scientist also said that "there's still no concrete proof that airborne transmission of coronavirus is happening".

She did say this warranted proper attention and additional precautions.

She also said the virus "does not appear to be truly airborne".


Why are you quoting an organization that the United States has withdrawn from a d dismissed as being corrupt??? 😎
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L.C.
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Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 7:33:31 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
allen wrote:
... The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe

You stay safe, too, allen. Good advice. The WHO finally admitted that it is airborne today, so they are catching up to you.


That's not exactly what the WHO said.

From what I've read, they said that the likelihood that the virus can go
airborne in . . . "cannot be ruled out".

The WHO also acknowledged "more research is needed".

That's not exactly definitive.

The WHO's chief scientist also said that "there's still no concrete proof that airborne transmission of coronavirus is happening".

She did say this warranted proper attention and additional precautions.

She also said the virus "does not appear to be truly airborne".


Why are you quoting an organization that the United States has withdrawn from a d dismissed as being corrupt???


This was in relation to a discussion earlier in the thread about about poorly the WHO has handled the entire COVID situation, and continuing evidence that they are still struggling to get things right. They now acknowledge that it is possible for the virus to spread by aerosol, it took an open letter from 239 epidemiologists asking them to reconsider their position that it spread by droplets only, and that it could aeorosolize only during certain medical procedures.

From earlier in this thread:
L.C. wrote:
... .. How have these comments from the WHO stood the test of time?
There is no evidence of human to human transmission
There is no reason to restrict travel or commerce
There is no large pool of people out there which has been infected, who were asymptomatic.
Do wear masks
Don't wear masks.
Do not treat patients with corticosteriods
Asymptomatic transmission is not a significant method of transmission
The virus spreads only by water droplets, and can not aerosolize

I could add to that list an earlier WHO statement that the virus spreads slowly and can easily be contained.

The world does need a world health organization to deal with pandemics and give consistent, accurate, trusted information. The WHO, as it is currently formulated, has failed the world, and has handled this poorly. Should it be defunded? Reformulated? Replaced? I have no opinion on that, but I am unimpressed with the WHO as it stands now.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 9:33:44 AM 
L.C. wrote:

What level MERV? 6-10 (which are the most common, and will work with most HVACs)? MERV is definitely cheaper and faster to install than any alternative.



New York's preference is for a MERV 13.
But they accept MREV 11 or 12 also.


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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 10:37:09 AM 
LC, that was pure sarcasm
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JSF
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Location: Houston, TX
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 6:38:34 PM 
Saw projections of 200k dead and 50 million infected by the end of the year.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 8:18:17 PM 
JSF wrote:
Saw projections of 200k dead and 50 million infected by the end of the year.


Athens is currently doing its job to help the infection numbers. 100 since June 30th, with over 70 active
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/11/2020 10:31:01 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
allen wrote:


The US allegedly flattened the curve in April, Governor Murphy is doing an excellent job. The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe


In my opinion,as someone who has lived in NJ his whole life,"excellent" and Murphy don't belong in the same sentence.

A few examples:

1.To date,he has refused to provide the criteria he uses to determine what constitutes an "essential" business.

2.Murphy said "flatten the curve" and the state would reopen.
N.J. did.
Didn't reopen,even though,based on published reports,of secretly recorded conversations, his own medical people were saying the state should.
Now its "rate of infection".
Based on what "metric".
He won't say.

3.He sent elderly Covid positive patients to nursing homes,instead of the USS Comfort or Javitz Center.
One reason,Federal money.
Close to 50% on N.J.'s Covid deaths are/were in nursing homes.

4.He participated in a BLM march that violated his own executive orders
for crowd size,mask wearing and social distancing.

A couple of days later he revised the executive order on crowd sizes for protests.

5.He got caught dining indoors with his wife.
His executive order specifically said outdoor dining facilities couldn't have a fixed roof.
This place did.
Other places with fixed roofs were not allowed to open.

This week he changed his executive order to allow places with fixed roofs.

6.He claims the problem with indoor dining is people being indoors and
sedentary for periods of time.
Yet,he allowed casinos to open.
Some haven't until they can have indoor food and drink service.
He also hasn't allowed MERV filters,like New York did.

7.He shut down all DMV offices for around four months.
Then was "shocked" that there were 8-10 hour long lines
when they reopened.

It was so bad that they cut off the line 2 minutes after they
opened.

His first response ?

Don't allow people to arrive until an hour before they open.

8.When he ran for office in 2017, one of his campaign platform "planks" was a promise to upgrade the state's DMV and unemployment computer systems.
(They still use COBOL,and need to use retired employees to fix the system).
So far he hasn't even mentioned it to the legislature.
(His term expires next year)
The problems with the system became front and center during the pandemic.
There are a number of people in NJ who filed for unemployment in the middle
of March,and still haven't had their claim processed.

9.Police are going to funeral homes to make sure there are no more then
15 people in the chapel,even if they are socially distancing.
More then 15,the funeral director can get a citation.


I sincerely hope that Americans hold all of the leaders who failed us so terribly during this Covid crisis accountable come November. And that it does not just fall on party lines. I think you have a lot of valid criticisms here. I hope you hold Republican leaders to the same standard.

We should basically clean house as a nation, at this point.


I agree


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/12/2020 6:09:58 AM 
I would also add that public health is not a partisan issue. Anyone that politicized it should also be held accountable. This is exactly the kind of thing that should have brought people together, not divided them.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/12/2020 8:28:04 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I would also add that public health is not a partisan issue. Anyone that politicized it should also be held accountable. This is exactly the kind of thing that should have brought people together, not divided them.


Problem is, the ones I see politicizing this are the everyday people who disagree with leaders
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