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Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 2:54:27 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
cc-cat wrote:

This isn't about the flag and respect for our country ...


That sentence alone explains the entire disconnect between right and left on this issue. On the right, that's absolutely what this is about. You can claim it's not, but that doesn't change anything. That basic fact is what's lost on the kneelers. It is a monumental slap in the face to those who are protective of their own country. If you begin a dialogue by first insulting your opposition, you won't likely get very far.

cc-cat wrote:
I recently spent the day with the Golden Knights doing a publicity program for them. I'm in the midst of working with MWR at Ft. Bragg on a promotional program for them. And NOT ONE of the men and women I work with enlisted because of the flag. They are there because of love of country and the ideals and principles our nation stands for.


And how do those Golden Knights feel about the kneeling? Are they in support?


1. it did not start with kneeling - it started with protests around the country (Ferguson, Charlotte, Charleston, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc.) - the dialogue is absolutely long over due -- too many people are being killed. No it can not start with an insult, unfortunately it started with (in many cases) innocent people being killed by incompetent (at the least) cops - and isn't the death of an innocent person the biggest insult of all. Again, this is bigger than a flag - it is about who we are as a nation - and what we strive to be - to provide the same rights and liberties to all - yet today that is not the case - That basic fact is what's lost on the right.

2. didn't take a poll - it was before the recent weekend - One was not in favor and one said he understood why but would never take a knee. Discussion came as we approached the 1 year mark on the Charlotte protests (which were mostly out of towners that came in for the "show." - so there was discussion re: would the panthers do anything.

But then as Costas said, just because someone served does not make them more patriotic or American - but I appreciate you asking as I did bring them into the conversation.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 3:09:03 PM by cc-cat

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 2:54:53 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


This is the most sensitive, snow-flakey response I've ever seen.




Well then you really need to get out more.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 3:07:56 PM 
cc-cat wrote:


1. it did not start with kneeling - it started with protests around the country (Ferguson, Charlotte, Charleston, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc.) - the dialogue is absolutely long over due -- too many people are being killed. No it can not start with an insult, unfortunately it started with (in many cases) innocent people being killed by incompetent (at the least) cops - and isn't the death of an innocent person the biggest insult of all. Again, this is bigger than a flag - it is about who we are as a nation - and what we strive to be.


OK, but it's not a matter of what it started with. It's a matter of what it is now. And the original point has become so obscured that it is now seen by many as simple disrespect to the flag and the country. And that's a losing platform. No one will listen over the din of shouting voices to the guy in the back saying, "it's bigger than this people! This is about who we are!"

cc-cat wrote:

2. didn't take a poll - it was before the recent weekend - One was not in favor and one said he understood why but would never take a knee. Discussion came as we approached the 1 year mark on the Charlotte protests


It sounds like these two men would not be in favor of the kneeling. So bottom line, they may have sympathy for the original message, but no tolerance for the theatrics. And it's the theatrics that will kill any chance for meaningful discussion.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 3:15:17 PM 
I asked this question earlier - why have we militarized sporting events particularly pro football? Here is an interesting article about it:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/8/22/1414641/-Sick-...
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 3:17:13 PM 
1. Agree it has become obscured - most now by Trump. it is now up to those that appreciate and understand the original purpose of the gesture to keep the dialogue focused and moving forward - as Julius Peppers is here.

2. No - here you are wrong - you made the wrong leap - They both appreciated sympathy for the original purpose (I hope everyone does - if not there is a major concern). One did not like the gesture at all but the other had absolute tolerance for the gesture - simply would not take part.

Neither saw it as "drama" or "theatrics" - both specifically appreciated the non-violence as they have friends in the National Guard.



Last Edited: 9/25/2017 3:17:28 PM by cc-cat

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 4:08:47 PM 
There were about 10 protesters last week and this week there were close to a thousand because of Trump's absurdity. Trump is allowed to be absurd because of the ignorance of his base, catfan 28 might be in their top 10 percentile as far as IQ and he is no genius. The latest tweet coming from the White House states that players should dispute the police at games, vesus the flag, so even Trump realizes that his tweets were moronic. He could really walk right out on fifth avenue and shoot someone and still have the majority of his base.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 5:31:29 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
cc-cat wrote:


1. it did not start with kneeling - it started with protests around the country (Ferguson, Charlotte, Charleston, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc.) - the dialogue is absolutely long over due -- too many people are being killed. No it can not start with an insult, unfortunately it started with (in many cases) innocent people being killed by incompetent (at the least) cops - and isn't the death of an innocent person the biggest insult of all. Again, this is bigger than a flag - it is about who we are as a nation - and what we strive to be.


OK, but it's not a matter of what it started with. It's a matter of what it is now. And the original point has become so obscured that it is now seen by many as simple disrespect to the flag and the country. And that's a losing platform. No one will listen over the din of shouting voices to the guy in the back saying, "it's bigger than this people! This is about who we are!"

[QUOTE=cc-cat]




This is really silly and shallow thinking. If people don't remember the original point they haven't been paying attention. They're likely too busy shouting about disrespecting the flag. Also, as I already mentioned this same line of thinking was used to criticize civil rights leaders including MLK, who we now (almost) universally agree was a hero.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 5:50:05 PM 
A few days ago and earlier this year, a couple of old family friends of my parents died in the town where I grew up. One was a Korean War vet, the other a WWII vet, one Black one Jewish. They knew a lot about the history of my town and told me about the presence of the Klan and how they tormented the lives of Blacks, Jews and Catholics back in the 1920s up until WWII. The last conversation I had with them was as the Colin Kaepernick situation broke last fall. With what they faced growing up, I asked them what they thought of the protests. In unison, they told me that someone would have to cut their legs off, for them to ever kneel in protest. They became so angry over the Kaepernick protests, I actually had to change the subject because they were visible angry at him and at the time the slowly growing movement. I actually feared I was helping raise their blood pressure.

Last night I also remembered my occasional meetings with Dean Kahler, the former Athens County Commissioner who was the most seriously injured survivor of the Kent State shootings. He never had a problem with the national anthem or the presence of military at our sporting events. I knew he was a pacifist but wondered why at certain Democratic Party events, that I attended as a student, he was always engaged in cheerful banter with some of the union guys who were veterans and was near his age or a little older, and why these same guys avoided other candidates and elected officials like the plague. When I asked them, these union guys unloaded, "&%#!! spoiled brat flag burners," they exclaimed. Really I said, being too young to know how pervasive that sort of activity was, I was given a quick tutorial by these gentleman who watched some of these candidates and elected officials do it with their own eyes. They told me they liked Dean Kahler because he wasn't disrespectful to the flag or soldiers.

Where is the respect gone among those NFL players who make more money that any of us can imagine? Why aren't they helping with perceived injustices and why are they listening to left wing hipsters? Why did people who suffered severe injustice 70, 80, 90, 100 years ago never even fathom showing disrespect to the flag? Why are so many people from so many nations trying to come to our country if it is such an unjust place?

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 5:51:32 PM by cbus cat fan

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 6:09:37 PM 
A well reasoned response from one inside the ropes so to speak:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-national-anthem-...
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 6:10:35 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
. . . Also, as I already mentioned this same line of thinking was used to criticize civil rights leaders including MLK, who we now (almost) universally agree was a hero.


MLK, Rosa Parks, not to mention Fred Douglass, Robert Smalls, John Brown, and our local hero Milton Holland are rolling over in their graves at that comparison. I was actually around during the 1960s Civil Rights Era, and I was 100 percent behind the movement and sympathized with their goals and understood their strategies. This current "movement" has neither a clear strategy nor a well-thought set of goals. It's sort of an ad hoc improvisation more than anything else.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 7:12:25 PM 
It's interesting that a large part of this debate nationally is about people having "the right to express their opinions."



The mainstream media instantly dismisses the opinion of Middle America while labeling these people "redneck, hillbilly, backwoods, deplorable, uneducated, stupid, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc..." The list literally goes on and on.



Stand or sit, do whatever you want. Not saying anything else so I'm not unfairly branded as a racist by coastal elites.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 7:24:28 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
. . . Also, as I already mentioned this same line of thinking was used to criticize civil rights leaders including MLK, who we now (almost) universally agree was a hero.


MLK, Rosa Parks, not to mention Fred Douglass, Robert Smalls, John Brown, and our local hero Milton Holland are rolling over in their graves at that comparison. I was actually around during the 1960s Civil Rights Era, and I was 100 percent behind the movement and sympathized with their goals and understood their strategies. This current "movement" has neither a clear strategy nor a well-thought set of goals. It's sort of an ad hoc improvisation more than anything else.


You seem like a good enough guy, so I want to be clear that I'm not trying to claim you didn't support the Civil Rights Movement, but statistically it's really unlikely that you did.

White Americans, by and large, were critical of the methods of the Civil Rights movement. Only 15% of Americans thought, for instance, that lunch counter sit-ins helped the Civil Rights Movement's cause. The vast majority of people oppose protest movements in the moment.

Which is, I think, the point DelBobcat was making. I'm sure he's not saying that the NFL Players are akin to Fredrick Douglass, he's pointing out that Fredrick Douglass, Martin Luther King, etc. were hugely unpopular in their times.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 7:34:26 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 7:26:26 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
It's interesting that a large part of this debate nationally is about people having "the right to express their opinions."

The mainstream media instantly dismisses the opinion of Middle America while labeling these people "redneck, hillbilly, backwoods, deplorable, uneducated, stupid, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc..." The list literally goes on and on.

Stand or sit, do whatever you want. Not saying anything else so I'm not unfairly branded as a racist by coastal elites.


Robert Fox, I owe you an apology. You were totally right.

This is now the most sensitive, snowflakiest thing I've ever read. I didn't think somebody would come into thread, insist they're the real victim, and preemptively accuse people of branding him a racist all in one post. That's just world class use of the victim card and outrage culture. Never seen anybody operate on this level.

Apologies.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 7:35:06 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 8:23:07 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
. . . Also, as I already mentioned this same line of thinking was used to criticize civil rights leaders including MLK, who we now (almost) universally agree was a hero.


MLK, Rosa Parks, not to mention Fred Douglass, Robert Smalls, John Brown, and our local hero Milton Holland are rolling over in their graves at that comparison. I was actually around during the 1960s Civil Rights Era, and I was 100 percent behind the movement and sympathized with their goals and understood their strategies. This current "movement" has neither a clear strategy nor a well-thought set of goals. It's sort of an ad hoc improvisation more than anything else.


You seem like a good enough guy, so I want to be clear that I'm not trying to claim you didn't support the Civil Rights Movement, but statistically it's really unlikely that you did.

White Americans, by and large, were critical of the methods of the Civil Rights movement. Only 15% of Americans thought, for instance, that lunch counter sit-ins helped the Civil Rights Movement's cause. The vast majority of people oppose protest movements in the moment.

Which is, I think, the point DelBobcat was making. I'm sure he's not saying that the NFL Players are akin to Fredrick Douglass, he's pointing out that Fredrick Douglass, Martin Luther King, etc. were hugely unpopular in their times.


I understand your clarification, and I accept that that's what DelBobcat meant. His remarks were subject to multiple interpretation. I really can't speak for others, but I do know that everyone in my household (I was a sophomore in high school in 1959-60) were strongly supporting the lunch counter sit-ins and most of the other demonstrations to end apartheid in the U.S. South. Much of this was probably due to the influence of my parents (one a Republican and one a Democrat) who strongly imbued us with a sense of the equality of all human beings. One of my early experiences, when living in Annapolis, Maryland, as a very young boy was to see the "White" and "Colored" water fountains in the public square. I also saw two old black men on a public bus, who I later learned had been slaves when they were very young. (Do the math, if you don't believe me.) These men were approaching 100. Their outer ears were missing. I again learned later that this was done as a punishment for being uppity slaves. They were teenagers when war clouds of the Rebellion were on the horizon. These things made a great impression on very impressionable young man.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 8:25:08 PM 
Bobcat's Love..not sure where you are getting your data, and I can't specifically site where I got this tidbit. However, I remember reading about a poll of white southerners that stated that in November of 1964 when President Johnson was elected that a majority of white southerners knew integration was coming. In addition, even if people had racist tendencies everyone knew that rich white northeasters were coming to Florida in droves. Places like Hilton Head, South Carolina were beginning their long path to development, which was a model of including poor black and white islanders to reap the benefits of the now much studied tourist development. These burgeoning tourist meccas knew that white northerners were not going to spend their money in a segregated south. Until the Communist takeover of Cuba by the Castro brothers and Che Guevara, many wealthy northerners vacationed in Cuba or even the south of France. Say what you will, they had their moral convictions and once the south was integrated they began to spend their vacation dollars there.

Unlike the northern half of the USA and Canada, the historical development of the American South (with the exception of Louisiana) shares a great deal in common with many South American cultures. They shared slavery, a class system and a fairly monolithic religion Evangelical and mainline Protestantism (unlike South America where Catholicism was the dominant religion.) Every part of our great nation is unique and had it's own special development that involved forces in history that we may never understand.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 8:27:13 PM by cbus cat fan

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 8:35:04 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
. . . Also, as I already mentioned this same line of thinking was used to criticize civil rights leaders including MLK, who we now (almost) universally agree was a hero.


MLK, Rosa Parks, not to mention Fred Douglass, Robert Smalls, John Brown, and our local hero Milton Holland are rolling over in their graves at that comparison. I was actually around during the 1960s Civil Rights Era, and I was 100 percent behind the movement and sympathized with their goals and understood their strategies. This current "movement" has neither a clear strategy nor a well-thought set of goals. It's sort of an ad hoc improvisation more than anything else.


You seem like a good enough guy, so I want to be clear that I'm not trying to claim you didn't support the Civil Rights Movement, but statistically it's really unlikely that you did.

White Americans, by and large, were critical of the methods of the Civil Rights movement. Only 15% of Americans thought, for instance, that lunch counter sit-ins helped the Civil Rights Movement's cause. The vast majority of people oppose protest movements in the moment.

Which is, I think, the point DelBobcat was making. I'm sure he's not saying that the NFL Players are akin to Fredrick Douglass, he's pointing out that Fredrick Douglass, Martin Luther King, etc. were hugely unpopular in their times.


Exactly the point I was trying to make, thanks BLSoS. I'm not saying the players are making the sort of sacrifice or effecting change in the same way these great civil rights leader did. But I am saying those leaders were also incredibly unpopular. It certainly remains to be seen how history will view these protests.

And OCF I have to agree with BLSoS here. You seem like an incredibly good fellow. But if you supported the Civil Rights movement you were the lonely guy in the room a lot. I'm not saying it's not true, but it's more likely that your memory has changed the details of what really happened in those days. That's not a knock on you, it happens to all of us. The human memory is a funny thing and it is very capable of playing tricks on us all.

And we cannot know how MLK would have felt about these protests but I venture a guess that he would have been 100% supportive and The King Center and King family agree with me.

Many are "more dedicated to order than to justice," offended by kneeling during the Anthem & not by racism & modern-day lynching. #TakeAKnee pic.twitter.com/E23oM1ZW6X— The King Center (@TheKingCenter) September 23, 2017

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 8:35:52 PM by DelBobcat


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 8:44:59 PM 
cbus cat fan: I found your reference to HHI interesting. As a bit of Civll War history, the area between HHI and Beaufort, S.C., were in Union hands from November 1861 forward. As a result, virtually the only civilians present for the duration of war were black. They were for all intense and purposes free from November 1861 on. Lincoln tacitly recognized this in his Emancipation Proclamation by not excluding the area as a Union held territory. (As you may recall, in general, the EP only freed slaves in areas still under the control of the CSA. Lincoln purposely left out a few Union controlled areas from his list of areas in the Confederate States that were exempted because they were no longer "in rebellion." That area of South Carolina was one such area. I believe there were one or two others, but I have not studied these other areas in any depth at all.)


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 9:41:40 PM 
And another good story. I found this paragraph to be most interesting:

“People that are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military, they’re not saying anything negative about the flag, they’re just trying to protest that there are some injustices in America,” Villanueva said.



http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/25/steelers-alejand...
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 9:46:47 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

This is now the most sensitive, snowflakiest thing I've ever read. I didn't think somebody would come into thread, insist they're the real victim, and preemptively accuse people of branding him a racist all in one post. That's just world class use of the victim card and outrage culture. Never seen anybody operate on this level.


Quote:
...preemtively accuse people of branding him...


Quote:
him


Interesting how you assumed my gender.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 10:09:31 PM 
Ohio Cat Fan, first of all excellent post on your family's early backing of the Civil Rights Movement. It might surprise some to realize that one of the most conservative Republican congressman in the House of Representatives, Congressman Bill McCulloch of western Ohio supported the cause, and he wasn't alone alone. In many cases they were miles ahead of many Democrats in that era.

As for Hilton Head Island, there is some great historical information on the island concerning it's role in American History from the Revolutionary War through the Civil War and it's development as a tourist mecca. The whole South Carolina coast from Fort Sumter and Fort Moultrie (where a young Edgar Allen Poe was stationed in the 1820s) near the popular vacation spot (Sullivan's Island and the Isle of Palms) all the way down the coast to Hilton Head.

I remember my dad and me stumbling upon an historical marker near Georgetown where George Washington disembarked and had a "splendid repast" with the citizens of the town before moving to his next spot following the war, but I believe before he became President, but don't quote me on that one. It is a very interesting historical coastline to say the least.
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 11:01:28 PM 
This is the only knee that should be taken: https://twitter.com/TrumpTrain45Pac/status/91250411009572...

Favorite quote of the week! Hah!
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/25/2017 11:16:45 PM 


I don't necessarily agree with all the opinions expressed here by Burgess Owens, a former NFL star, but I think they do add a different perspective to the discussion.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 11:20:25 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 1:04:49 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Watch the latest video at http://video.foxnews.com

I don't necessarily agree with all the opinions expressed here by Burgess Owens, a former NFL star, but I think they do add a different perspective to the discussion.


He is trying to be relevant again, lol. You complain about these protesters having direction and how bad they are, let's talk about the circumstances that are bringing them to the forefront. If unarmed people of the green race are being killed by police, we should be upset, yet alone a group of people who have been persecuted for hundreds of years. As a Christian, I was taught that we are all supposed to love one another and that seems to be an impossible task for most of us. I know that a lot of people don't share the same beliefs as me, but we should at least respect one another. Sometimes it seems like we love dogs more than we love people of different races, there is definitely something wrong with that.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 8:12:33 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Bobcat's Love..not sure where you are getting your data, and I can't specifically site where I got this tidbit. However, I remember reading about a poll of white southerners that stated that in November of 1964 when President Johnson was elected that a majority of white southerners knew integration was coming. In addition, even if people had racist tendencies everyone knew that rich white northeasters were coming to Florida in droves. Places like Hilton Head, South Carolina were beginning their long path to development, which was a model of including poor black and white islanders to reap the benefits of the now much studied tourist development. These burgeoning tourist meccas knew that white northerners were not going to spend their money in a segregated south. Until the Communist takeover of Cuba by the Castro brothers and Che Guevara, many wealthy northerners vacationed in Cuba or even the south of France. Say what you will, they had their moral convictions and once the south was integrated they began to spend their vacation dollars there.

Unlike the northern half of the USA and Canada, the historical development of the American South (with the exception of Louisiana) shares a great deal in common with many South American cultures. They shared slavery, a class system and a fairly monolithic religion Evangelical and mainline Protestantism (unlike South America where Catholicism was the dominant religion.) Every part of our great nation is unique and had it's own special development that involved forces in history that we may never understand.


I was trying to cite something I' read off the top of my head, but it turns out my numbers were off. The point still stands, though the level of support was slightly higher, while still hugely outweighed by those disagreed. You can see an infographic citing the polling data from 1961 here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/19... .



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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 8:23:04 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Watch the latest video at http://video.foxnews.com

I don't necessarily agree with all the opinions expressed here by Burgess Owens, a former NFL star, but I think they do add a different perspective to the discussion.


No offense man, but the author of a book called "Liberalism, Or How to Turn Good Men into Whiners" is not going to bring an interesting or different perspective to the discussion.

That was, truly, gibberish. That people here believe that garbage is truly sad. His argument is basically that the Democratic party tricks black people into anti-American sentiment to push their Marxist agenda.

Meanwhile, the DNC nominated a Presidential candidate who was roundly criticized for her close ties to Wall Street. That hotbed of Marxism.

Last Edited: 9/26/2017 8:27:13 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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