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Topic: RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Topic: RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

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oubobcatjohn
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 2:33:40 AM

Joel Goodson "some times you gotta say what the %$&^" "Looks like University of Illinois"- Risky Business 1983

Hope Groce realizes Ohio is Princeton compared to Illinois and he really wants to stay here.

KyleWvr13
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 3:00:25 AM

http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x221016255/Sources-Illini-ex...

already posted it in another thread, but just for good measure...

:'(

OUVan
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:20:56 AM

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Kansas is well above the level of what Illinois ever hopes to be. While yes they did make a it to a final four in 2005 and 1989. They can't compete in the B1G with the current one and done rule. Coach Groce should hold out for something more stable. Otherwise he may end up like Tommy Amaker who should also be considered for this job but due to his failure at UoM won't get a look.

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

Piney
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:25:13 AM

OUVan wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

I know... putting down the Illinois basketball job is amazing. A couple of college basketball analysts I have heard and read said that Illinois is a Top 15-20 job, and one guy even said it was a Top 10 job.

Like I said a couple of weeks ago, Kansas is a premier college basketball job, but Illinois is at the notch below them grouped with about 20 other schools. But if you are the Illinois head basketball coach, you would only leave that job for one of the elite jobs like Kansas/Kentucky/North Carolina/Duke/Syracuse type job.

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

GoCats105
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:28:26 AM

Piney wrote:

OUVan wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

Mike Coleman
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:34:41 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Piney wrote:

OUVan wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

Kansas/Kentucky/North Carolina/Duke/Syracuse/Indiana/Michigan State/Georgetown/UCLA/Arizona/Ohio State/Florida/Memphis/Louisville/UConn>Illinois ...just IMHO

Illinois in that up-and-down slot with Michigan, Purdue, UC, UNLV, Alabama, Stanford, LSUs, Marquette, etc.

Non-power conferences, you'd probably rank Butler, XU and Gonzaga above Illinois at this point.

GoCats105
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:42:35 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Piney wrote:

OUVan wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

I'd put Purdue and Marquette above Illinois without question. Just ask yourself: If you were the top college coach in the country and you had the choice of any job you wanted, how far down the list do you go till you get to Illinois? It's a pretty long list IMO. Longer than people think.

Last Edited: 3/27/2012 9:43:02 AM by GoCats105

Piney
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:50:07 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

15-25 years ago? How about 6-7 years ago when they went to the Final 4, and had won the Big Ten title 4 times in the last 12 years?

They had a run of very good coaches. Self only left in 2003 and the first few years Weber won with Self's guys. Then Weber couldn't keep it up. So basically they are one coach removed from a very good run.

Now, it might have felt like 15-25 years since they have been good. But in reality it is more like 5 years.

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

born2bleedgreen
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:56:42 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Piney wrote:

OUVan wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois can't compete in the Big 10? Really?

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

Illinois is not even a top 5 program in the B1G. They are behind OSU, UoM, MSU, Indiana, and Wisconsin. They are competing for 6th with Purdue. They have Northwestern, Minnesota and Iowa in the rear view mirror. I hope Groce does well, but I think Illinois is going to be a hard place to win with the current state of college basketball with one and done. Illinois has to get the top Chicago players. Top players like the ones that go to Duke and UNC. I Know Coach is great at getting players, but Illinois is not Duke, UNC or Kansas and never will be. They will struggle to keep up with OSU, MSU and UoM. I hope I am wrong and Coach can turn it around but I think he is going to struggle. Look at Tubby Smith at Minnesota and he came from UK. In college basketball you get one chance at a top program in most cases and if you fail you end up at places like Harvard or New Mexico for the rest of your career.

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. - John Wooden

GoCats105
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 9:59:56 AM

Piney wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

I don't think its a Top 20 job right now. If you would have asked me 15-25 years ago I would have said yes but not anymore. In fact, I would guess its on the brim of being Top 30.

Since the Final 4 in 2005 they have not been past the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament. That also includes an NIT berth and two seasons where they didn't make any postseason tournaments. Sure Self was a great coach for the short time he was there, but it was for three years. Just my opinion, but the job hasn't been a top job since the Henson days of the 80's and early 90's.

OUVan
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:01:55 AM

The only thing that makes the Illinois job unattractive at this point is their situation with their President. As soon as that situation is rectified the job becomes a really good one. Saying it ranks above or below certain jobs in the Big Ten is splitting hairs at its finest.

Turney13
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:18:07 AM

buy low
sell high

Turney Duff
Twitter: @turneyduff

bornacatfan
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:23:55 AM

born2bleedgreen wrote:

Illinois is not even a top 5 program in the B1G. They are behind OSU, UoM, MSU, Indiana, and Wisconsin. They are competing for 6th with Purdue. They have Northwestern, Minnesota and Iowa in the rear view mirror. I hope Groce does well, but I think Illinois is going to be a hard place to win with the current state of college basketball with one and done. Illinois has to get the top Chicago players. Top players like the ones that go to Duke and UNC. I Know Coach is great at getting players, but Illinois is not Duke, UNC or Kansas and never will be. They will struggle to keep up with OSU, MSU and UoM. I hope I am wrong and Coach can turn it around but I think he is going to struggle. Look at Tubby Smith at Minnesota and he came from UK. In college basketball you get one chance at a top program in most cases and if you fail you end up at places like Harvard or New Mexico for the rest of your career.

YOu are nailing it with each post.

FOr the comment that they have to get the top talent out of Chicago.....nosomuch...when they did get that talent with Head, gill, battle and a number of others they were not the juggernaut everyone thought they would be....good yes, elite no. THeir really good teams have come with core players form other places than Chicago. If y but you are saying they could win if they kept Scheyer and those guys at home I agree but there is such a disconnect between the kids from the Burbs and Chicago Public or Catholic leagues that I have a hard time seeing them on the same team. Same is true when you look at the Summmer teams Mac Irvin Fire vs Illinois WOlves, MeanStreet, Ferrari and Common BOnd or Full Package.
Chicago is a very clannish place and they are more disconnected than connected. Keep in mind post prop 48 and intensified compliance issues how difficult it is to get unmotivated ballers out of Chicago schools and into U of I.

JG is gonna get a shot...OTOH ....it would be a great stepping stone to tO$U. Because that is what Illinois has become ...your stepping stone to the biggest stage inthe world or the places Kreuger, the LouDoo and others have gone

and jst for the sake of repeating it..their incoming prez is athletics friendly liek McD but only has a 2 year deal

Last Edited: 3/27/2012 10:25:13 AM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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Diamond Cat
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:28:05 AM

I say thanks for getting us on our way and no thanks for being like every other greedy coach that passed through our gates. I have been dealing with these situations since 1983 and I didn’t like it then. You would think the NCAA would even things out along the years we have all followed this great school. No TV = No Chance. Why be 1-A if we can’t pay the same money and build our programs? By 2015, we will be lucky to stay 1-A. I can’t see myself every logging the miles I have over the years for a 1-AA Program.

Unlike most on this board, I got no love for a coach who comes here and bails for the money. Illinois is a pretty good program but they can stop being delusional as to where they think they should be.

I’m upset like most of you. I have carried this flag for almost 30 years now. For some of the younger BA posters, it will wear you out as well. It may seem as if that is not the case today but every time a coach leaves, it’s a slap in the face to OHIO and our community. Fortunately, I have mellowed out as I grow older. That said many things can chip away at your loyalty to OHIO over a period of time. Xavier’s President has the formula for success and he speaks to it at every Freshman Orientation = exposure via athletic success. Unfortunately, Athens isn’t Cincinnati. We can’t raise tickets prices and expect people to show up, we have zero TV Market credibility and I doubt we can continue to raise tuition to offset expenses.

So long Groce. Please leave your recruits at the door of the Convo (that will change too).

OK…..back to work and the real world for me.

born2bleedgreen
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:33:33 AM

I hope this is a stepping stone for Coach but it really was only a stepping stone for Self and Kruger. For Henson it was his Career. But for Weber it was a final four and a couple of B1G Championships and he was only really good with Self's kids.

As far as Chicago goes I agree to some points on how hard it is to get the top player, but if you can't protect you own state how do you expect to go into another state and take their top players.

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. - John Wooden

bn9
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:37:36 AM

I understand and don't all at the same time. I understand that he probably has to take the job because the money is so much more. I don't understand because he is leaving a great situation to go to a terrible one that doesn't even want him there. If you were a coach wouldn't you want to go to a job where you 'moved the needle'? I can't find anywhere on si.com or espn.com where this is even talked about. Martin moving from KState to So. Carolina is on espn.com, but you can barely find mention of Groce on espn Chicago. I just think that this is a bad move for the longevity of his career. But, I can't really blame him because if someone offered me five times my salary for another job, I would probably have to take it.

bornacatfan
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:40:32 AM

born2bleedgreen wrote:

JG would protect. THe first week he was here he made sure he and Holtmann covered every toruney in OHIO (Adidas It takes Five et al) BEFORE hitting the traditional recruiting tourneys in Indiana and Kentucky that take place at the same time. I have no doubt he would get to Illinois and hit Chicago and Peoria hard and get his hooks into the St Louis area also as a priority. HE would do for Illinois what no other coach has really accomplished in the recruiting arena....but Illinois is a brand that can compete nationally for name players....nice campus, nice facilities....no pro sports presence in the area....

Adolph Rupp moved from Kansas to Illinois to coach HS ball specifically because he desired the Chicago press to help launchhis career. From that stand point if you are really good you will become a media darling in a great major market.

born2bleedgreen
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:47:00 AM

Everyone lets be honest here. We all knew this day was going to come. We are OHIO not OSU and most of us came to OHIO because we are not OSU. I wish we could keep the top Coach and get the great players. But we are still a great place to be. I am happy with getting a Coach like JG every 4-5 years and go to the NCAA once every 2-3 years. We are the 5th best College basketball program in the STATE of OHIO. (OSU, UC, X and UD) And those teams don't want to play us regularly because they are scared of us. Groce will leave, we will get another young up and coming coach and that is just fine by me. We will NOT get another TOS or Hunter. Ohio will be just fine and we all know this. Either way most of the team will return and next year will still be fun to watch. Everyone knows who OHIO because of this past year.

Last Edited: 3/27/2012 10:49:04 AM by born2bleedgreen

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. - John Wooden

Andrew Ruck
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:53:49 AM

Diamond Cat wrote:

Unlike most on this board, I got no love for a coach who comes here and bails for the money.

Have you ever turned down a pay raise and/or declined a flattering offer to flourish in the career you love?

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

bornacatfan
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:54:48 AM

yep

Donuts
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 10:56:21 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Diamond Cat wrote:

Unlike most on this board, I got no love for a coach who comes here and bails for the money.

Have you ever turned down a pay raise and/or declined a flattering offer to flourish in the career you love?

This is the same guy who supports Carbone, and wants the head coaching job to go to his current assistant. Good luck talking sense with him.

Mike Coleman
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 11:03:26 AM

Nothing against Diamond Cat, cause I feel the pain, but comparing it X is kind of funny. How many coaches have they lost all the way back to Bob Staak? It's been nothing short of a revolving door, but you gotta keep the door moving no matter who you hire. Staak was okay. But then you add Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller, Mack in a row and its amazing. Maybe TOS was our Staak, Groce is our Gillen and now we gotta find the Prosser.

athena
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 11:06:11 AM

born2bleedgreen wrote:

We will NOT get another TOS or Hunter. Ohio will be just fine and we all know this.

We do? How, exactly, do "we" know this?

I wish I were half as confident as many of you all seem to be. I don't feel good about this at all and am really really not happy. I also wish this entire board wasn't already actling like Groce is gone.

mf279801
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 11:12:40 AM

athena wrote:

born2bleedgreen wrote:

We will NOT get another TOS or Hunter. Ohio will be just fine and we all know this.

We do? How, exactly, do "we" know this?

I wish I were half as confident as many of you all seem to be. I don't feel good about this at all and am really really not happy. I also wish this entire board wasn't already actling like Groce is gone.

Me too. Unfortunately pessimissim, like yawning, is contagious

GoCats105
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RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Posted: 3/27/2012 11:24:35 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

And let's not discount the fact that A) They don't have a football program, B) They are in a better league than us presently and could potentially move to a better one if an all-basketball conference came around like I'm hypothesizing eventually for the X's, Marquette's, G-Town's, etc., C) Their enrollment and tuition scale is completely different than ours. It's comparing apples to oranges.

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