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Topic:  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...

Topic:  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 7:35:59 PM 
I have to agree with JSF's posts.  Groce is flat out a good recruiter.  He's proven it over and over at Butler, Xavier, Ohio State, and now Ohio.

To try to argue that he would not bring Big Ten level talent to Champaign does not fit with Groce's track record.  He WOULD bring players in who would make Illinois competitive for Big Ten titles.  He's already proven that he can identify and recruit such talent at OSU. 

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 7:38:35 PM 
David in NYC wrote:
As an Illinois alum, I have been following this hiring process with interest. Too many Illini fans are interested in how the sausage is made rather than enjoying the meal. 

There is much pent-up frustration on among Illini boards, deserved or not. I think your coach has an excellent basketball spirit about him, and I think that the U. of I. fans should be thankful that our AD has had the wisdom to pursue your coach to head our program.

I only wish both OU and U of I the best, and I only wish that posters supporting the basketball team of my alma mater can gain a bit of perspective and support the team.

Good luck to both of us next season!

David


Well said.  A nice thing about this board is it is almost exclusively made up of people that attended Ohio.  We don't generally get the riff-raff that big programs boards do.    We also tend to be a little older crowd than most boards. 

Not many people pay attention to programs on our level so a lot of people on your board are making judgements based solely on wins and losses and are judging the man because you don't know the man.  We know the man.  His record on paper isn't that much better than his predecessor but one man was loathed while the other is almost universally loved.  Both had bigger ambitions when they showed up but with John Groce you can't tell that is the case.  He threw all of himself into the community.  He threw himself into the program.  His energy is infectious.  His demeanor is always positive. 

He also took over a program that didn't even remotely fit his style of play.  We had little depth and were front court heavy and back court thin.  Groce's system is all about the guards especially the PG.  It's also about depth.  This is the first year where we were able to play more than 7 deep and for most of the year we played 10 deep.  It is no coincidence that the first year we played with all his own players that we blew away the school record for wins in a season.  His recruiting philosophy is pretty simple. Recruit champions.  Take a look at our roster and see how many of our players won a state championship in high school. He doesn't just want good basketball players. He wants winners and people that know what it takes to win. And when he leaves he's going to hand our next coach a ready made roster just like Shaka Smart inherited. 
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AudioCat'13
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 7:45:48 PM 
OUVan wrote:
David in NYC wrote:
As an Illinois alum, I have been following this hiring process with interest. Too many Illini fans are interested in how the sausage is made rather than enjoying the meal. 

There is much pent-up frustration on among Illini boards, deserved or not. I think your coach has an excellent basketball spirit about him, and I think that the U. of I. fans should be thankful that our AD has had the wisdom to pursue your coach to head our program.

I only wish both OU and U of I the best, and I only wish that posters supporting the basketball team of my alma mater can gain a bit of perspective and support the team.

Good luck to both of us next season!

David


Well said.  A nice thing about this board is it is almost exclusively made up of people that attended Ohio.  We don't generally get the riff-raff that big programs boards do.    We also tend to be a little older crowd than most boards. 

Not many people pay attention to programs on our level so a lot of people on your board are making judgements based solely on wins and losses and are judging the man because you don't know the man.  We know the man.  His record on paper isn't that much better than his predecessor but one man was loathed while the other is almost universally loved.  Both had bigger ambitions when they showed up but with John Groce you can't tell that is the case.  He threw all of himself into the community.  He threw himself into the program.  His energy is infectious.  His demeanor is always positive. 

He also took over a program that didn't even remotely fit his style of play.  We had little depth and were front court heavy and back court thin.  Groce's system is all about the guards especially the PG.  It's also about depth.  This is the first year where we were able to play more than 7 deep and for most of the year we played 10 deep.  It is no coincidence that the first year we played with all his own players that we blew away the school record for wins in a season.  His recruiting philosophy is pretty simple. Recruit champions.  Take a look at our roster and see how many of our players won a state championship in high school. He doesn't just want good basketball players. He wants winners and people that know what it takes to win. And when he leaves he's going to hand our next coach a ready made roster just like Shaka Smart inherited. 


+1
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Bobcat Grad 86
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 7:48:45 PM 
C Money wrote:
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:
Recruiting and Negotiating "Chicago Style":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf9X6C0c-70


I totally thought this was going to be the linked video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvH-7lcjb0


From the same movie, they expect loyalty and being a "Team Player" in Chicago!  Talk abouit an expensive contract buyout if you dump your team for another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sV-O2-jCY
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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 8:24:03 PM 
I've got to tip my cap to Coop and the rest of the team, looking at their tweets I can't believe how mature and level headed they are being through all of this. They are handling this much better than I am. Well done men.

IN COOP WE TRUST

MY STATE. MY TEAM.
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medler
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:08:08 PM 
Dan roan (WGN tv sports dude) reports via twitter that if deal is not done by tomorrow, everyone will go their separate ways.

Illinois is so dumb for letting their negotiations with Smart become public. Every coach now knows what's in their bank.

Last Edited: 3/28/2012 9:11:43 PM by medler

Let's GO HAWKS! 

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Gangsta Pete
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:31:16 PM 
The U of I AD clearly wants Groce to be their coach, yet the negotiations have spilled over into its third day.  Unless you buy into the CPL coaches/BoT revolt conspiracy theories, this means they are haggling over terms.  The AD wants to low-ball Groce (as he is the third known person to officially be offered the job), but we all know how many chips he is playing with, so Groce is calling his bluff.

medler wrote:
Illinois is so dumb for letting their negotiations with Smart become public. Every coach now knows what's in their bank.


Agreed!

"There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."  -Morpheus
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Chicken George
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:38:39 PM 
On the flip side, an Illini poster also mentioned that the AD also knows what salary JG would be going back to.  Futhermore, the AD knows that JG is one Akron make away from the NIT and nowhere in this discussion and no guarantee he'll get such an offer next year.

I guess we'll see who "Flinches" first.  AD can't afford to have another pie in the face.  JG probably doesn't want to haggle over a few hundred thousand and consequently leave a million bucks on the table either. 

In the end JG wife probably plays him this tune and the deal is done by tomorrow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK57LJdg4MU

Last Edited: 3/28/2012 10:02:36 PM by Chicken George
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:47:56 PM 
medler wrote:
Dan roan (WGN tv sports dude) reports via twitter that if deal is not done by tomorrow, everyone will go their separate ways.


Oh, good. I'm off tomorrow, so I'll have nothing in the way.

George: He's not leaving a million dollars on the table. It's more like $600,000.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:52:59 PM 
Chicken and Gangsta, you both could be right on in your analysis, but let me suggest there may be something entirely different going on.  That is perhaps Coach Groce might be weighing the Illinois $$$ versus what he has in Athens and what could develop in Athens if he were to stay.  He may be consulting his wife and children, who by all reports love Athens.  He might even be taking a day or so to pray about this decision with his family.  From what I've heard this would not be out of character for the man. 

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Illinoisfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:55:08 PM 
medler wrote:
Dan roan (WGN tv sports dude) reports via twitter that if deal is not done by tomorrow, everyone will go their separate ways.

Illinois is so dumb for letting their negotiations with Smart become public. Every coach now knows what's in their bank.


I agree, they should have never made those figures public.
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ohio9704
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:57:02 PM 
Not really positive news here, but who knows at this point!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0329-illinois-basketball--20120329,0,7926313.story
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Mike Coleman
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:57:08 PM 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0329-...

EDIT: 9704 beats me by six seconds!



Last Edited: 3/28/2012 9:57:39 PM by Mike Coleman
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 9:59:33 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Chicken and Gangsta, you both could be right on in your analysis, but let me suggest there may be something entirely different going on.  That is perhaps Coach Groce might be weighing the Illinois $$$ versus what he has in Athens and what could develop in Athens if he were to stay.  He may be consulting his wife and children, who by all reports love Athens.  He might even be taking a day or so to pray about this decision with his family.  From what I've heard this would not be out of character for the man. 


Some reports today would suggest that he hasn't even gotten a final counter offer from OHIO yet, or he just got it today.
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Mike Coleman
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:01:14 PM 
Mike Coleman wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0329-...

EDIT: 9704 beats me by six seconds!





To sum up: Groce wants $1.375 million for eight years. Illinois wants to give $1.2 for five or six.
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ohio9704
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:03:24 PM 
Mike Coleman wrote:
Mike Coleman wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0329-...

EDIT: 9704 beats me by six seconds!





To sum up: Groce wants $1.375 million for eight years. Illinois wants to give $1.2 for five or six.




Sounds as if this gets done tomorrow and another mega-thread gets started!
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:07:14 PM 
ohio9704 wrote:
Not really positive news here, but who knows at this point!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0329-illinois-basketball--20120329,0,7926313.story


Not a lot of good news in that article. 
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Chicken George
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:10:06 PM 
Mike:

1.  First of all, where did that data come from?

2.  Those two offers are too close to let the deal die if they both want to make it happen.  7 year deal for $1.3 and they're there.  That's peanuts for Illinois.

3.  Had kind of envisioned JG was being a shrewed negotiator, but that ain't shrewed.  I thought the lowball figure would be $1.5 and he would be shooting for $2.0, but probably settling for around $1.6-$1.7.  I could see where that could tick a guy off if the last guy was offered over $2.0 and they're telling you $1.2.  Still, that's light years away from OHIO's $500,000.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:11:39 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Chicken and Gangsta, you both could be right on in your analysis, but let me suggest there may be something entirely different going on.  That is perhaps Coach Groce might be weighing the Illinois $$$ versus what he has in Athens and what could develop in Athens if he were to stay.  He may be consulting his wife and children, who by all reports love Athens.  He might even be taking a day or so to pray about this decision with his family.  From what I've heard this would not be out of character for the man. 


Some reports today would suggest that he hasn't even gotten a final counter offer from OHIO yet, or he just got it today.


Don't know what the truth is, but I guess I'd like to think Ohio could offer an incentive laden contract that gets close to $1million a year if we win MAC, MAC tourney, advance in tourney.  Of course it probably doesn't matter at this point.
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Illinoisfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:13:17 PM 
So if that article is to be believed, it appears that Groce is coming to Illinois. 

I would be much more comfortable with a 4  year contract. 8? That's way too long.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:15:21 PM 
Didn't we give TOS an eight year contract?  Or, did it just seem like 8 years?

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:18:30 PM 
Ugh. UNC just went up 5 in overtime.....
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:20:16 PM 
He shouldn't have jumped for a penny less than $1.75 or $1.8m. $1.3 is an insult imo.

Who's advising him?
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Gangsta Pete
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:20:33 PM 
IMO this is more about the years, not the yearly salary.  The longer the term of the contract, the more money Groce is owed should things go south early (given the the reaction of many in Illini Nation to Groce, that is highly probable).

Of course, all this assumes the reporting is at all accurate.  Given the events of the last couple of days, I am not taking anything a Trustee says at face value.

"There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."  -Morpheus
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Mike Coleman
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  Message Not Read  RE: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
   Posted: 3/28/2012 10:21:27 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Didn't we give TOS an eight year contract?  Or, did it just seem like 8 years?


http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/03170...
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