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Topic: RE: Rigged rankings

Topic: RE: Rigged rankings

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/24/2020 12:12:47 AM

I think you could get some equity in the playoffs by having with an eight-team model: Each P5 conference champion gets an automatic bid, as does the highest-ranked G5 team. The remaining two slots are filled by at-large P5 schools. In the first round, the lowest-ranked P5 school plays the G5 representative. It's sort of like the basketball tournament play-in game. This is not perfect, but it does mean that every school in the FBS has a theoretical chance to win the national title -- just like in basketball. Seems completely fair to me, and could easily be accomplished with very little additional resources, much easier than a 16-team system. If the number of games played was a serious obstacle, the regular season could be reduced to 11 games, which was the standard not too long ago, but that might not be necessary.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/24/2020 1:35:25 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

During today's godawful Akron game, Russ suggested that the G5 schools should break away from the "P"s and have our own national championship because it's obvious that no G5 school will ever break into the playoff as it's now structured.

It may come to that but I feel like that is conceding defeat. If that happens G5 schools will always be viewed as lesser than the P�s. For the most part the P�s are better but the great G5 schools that are unbeaten deserve a chance in the playoff, like in basketball to prove they�re better than the P schools. A true victory would be for the G5 schools to find a way into the playoff and win. Most years it may prove that the unbeaten G5 schools aren�t as good a the P schools but every now and then there might be a great team that can do it. They at least deserve a shot. I think the only format where this would work is every conference champion gets in with a few at larges. 16 team playoff. Maybe can cut out OOC games if the schedule is too long. Could even negotiate to make G5 schools have play in games against eachother to get in.

I think the main reason this'll never happen is because there just wouldn't be enough intrigue in the first round of games if you just seeded it normally and didn't offer any byes.

For instance, imagine Ball State is this year's 16 seed. They'd get straight up destroyed by Alabama. TV networks have no interest in replacing an Alabama - Georgia or Alabama - Tennessee or Alabama - Arkansas game in the schedule with Alabama - Ball State, even if it's part of a playoff.

In that case I think the play in model would work for G5 conference champions, with higher rated teams like Coastal Carolina competing for the at large spots. To counter that point would be the ncaa tournament in basketball. Yes for the most part the badly seeded teams get blown out but every now and then chaos happens and it�s awesome. Americans love the underdog. Wouldn�t it be in Alabama�s interest to have an easy 1st round game like that to reward them for their great season. If I�m an Alabama fan I�d feel better playing ball state in the first round than I would be playing Georgia and in all likelihood would play them the next week anyways. If the length of season is an issue they could just cut out ooc games and settle who is the best conference in the playoff. We saw this year that even when a P team plays a G5 team to start the season those games don�t count anyways. Why play them. Just eliminate ooc games. Win your conference you can represent it to prove it is the best out there.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/24/2020 2:17:19 PM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

In that case I think the play in model would work for G5 conference champions, with higher rated teams like Coastal Carolina competing for the at large spots.

I could see this working in theory. Would sort of depend how it's structured. I guess at large P5 teams and G5 conference champions play to get into the round of 8 or something?

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

To counter that point would be the ncaa tournament in basketball. Yes for the most part the badly seeded teams get blown out but every now and then chaos happens and it�s awesome. Americans love the underdog.

Basketball's a much different beast. As I mentioned in another thread, the MAC's all-time record against the SEC is 13-91. What do you think the best team in the SEC's record is against the MAC?

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Wouldn�t it be in Alabama�s interest to have an easy 1st round game like that to reward them for their great season. If I�m an Alabama fan I�d feel better playing ball state in the first round than I would be playing Georgia and in all likelihood would play them the next week anyways.

I wasn't super clear about the point I was making relating to Georgia. My point is that if you have a 16 team playoff, you're adding at least 4 weeks to the season, and likely have to shorten the regular season as a result.

That means that some other teams on Alabama's schedule get removed so that Alabama can play the MAC champion in a first round playoff game. If I'm CBS, what do I think's getting better ratings? An extra regular season game between Alabama + Georgia, or Alabama beating Ball State by 60 points?

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

If the length of season is an issue they could just cut out ooc games and settle who is the best conference in the playoff.

See above. You think the TV networks or the P5 schools themselves have any interest in giving up games like Florida-Florida State, Florida-Miami, Texas A&M-Texas so Ball State can get beat up in a 16 team tournament? Every season there are at least a dozen super compelling non-conference games that TV networks and P5 schools would be giving up money for.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/27/2020 7:02:33 AM

After watching Costal Carolina last night, I just do not understand how they are not playing in the CFP! Dominating performance that showed they belong with the elites of the college football world this year.

Bobcat1996
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/27/2020 7:55:09 PM

Don't remember the exact year, but Boise St knocked off Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl about a dozen years ago when both teams were top 10. I think Boise ended up unbeaten and 12-0. Not saying Boise would have went on to win another big game, but sometimes you have to give the little guy an opportunity. Without this opportunity then George Mason, Loyola-Chicago or VCU would not have been able to make it to the NCAA Final Four.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/27/2020 10:54:32 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Excellent point and I agree with the content 100 percent. But, please, grammatically it's "have gone" not "have went." Again, I liked your post, please forgive my grammar bigot comment, but I can't help myself.

Alan Swank
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 10:59:14 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

My kindergarten aged granddaughter said the same thing over Christmas dinner and was quickly corrected. Not sure where "have went" came from but it's becoming more common everyday. Thanks for always being "on duty" 24/7 OCF. :)

Mike Johnson
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 11:28:08 AM

As a Christmas gift, I received Jim Gray's Talking With Goats. I've read the first 4 chapters. Yikes! A grammar teacher might be suffering apoplexy.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 1:46:47 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

If we can find two examples in the last 30 years of undefeated G5 teams who deserved a chance to play for a championship (Boise State and UCF), how big is the problem we're solving for?

shabamon
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 2:05:33 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

If we can find two examples in the last 30 years of undefeated G5 teams who deserved a chance to play for a championship (Boise State and UCF), how big is the problem we're solving for?

Maybe the case study is in viewership rather than crowning a champion. I can only speak for myself, but I have 0 plans on watching any of the CFP. Why? Because my favorite team never had a chance to get there, therefore I have no connection to it. And I really do enjoy college football. I really don't even watch the MAC championship unless Ohio is playing. What does the winner get? What does it mean? Most years, a date in the Go Daddy bowl vs a Sun Belt team or the like. What do I care who wins the AAC championship. It's not the same in basketball. Unless there's some conflict, championship week and the NCAA tournament are almost appointment television regardless of who's playing.

Change the format to a 12 team tournament that includes all 10 conference champions plus two at large berths with a first round bye to the top four seeds, and I have far more interest in the CFP as well as the conference championship games. I'd imagine there would be more people from around the country tuning into the MAC championship as well.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 3:12:53 PM

shabamon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

If we can find two examples in the last 30 years of undefeated G5 teams who deserved a chance to play for a championship (Boise State and UCF), how big is the problem we're solving for?

I'm not sure this is a winning argument. MAC football games average ~700k viewers per game on ESPN. The sum total audience for the entire season doesn't add up to the number of viewers that watched the national championship game last year (25.59 million).

The fundamental problem the MAC and similar leagues have to overcome is that nobody really cares about them, and largely, that includes their alumni. On a given fall Saturday in Athens, a higher percentage of OU students could tell you if Ohio State won than if OU won.

Saying "our fans won't pay attention to the college football playoff if we're not eligible for it" misses the fact that the main reason the MAC and similar leagues get ignored nationally is that they don't have substantial fanbase and therefore there's no financial incentive for the P5 to include them.

Look at the AAC, for instance. Schools there represent a number of large markets, including Houston, New Orleans, Memphis, Orlando, Dallas, and Philadelphia. The problem is that none of those schools are actually the most popular college team in their own media market, and in a bunch of cases, aren't even number two.

Hell, OU is the second most popular college football team in the Athens, Ohio media market. Our fanbase just doesn't bring any leverage to the table.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/28/2020 8:05:23 PM

I have to reluctantly agree w/ BLSOS on this one. Remember too that home attendance was steadily declining up until this year when attendance was prohibited. In 2019 the Bobcats couldn�t even draw 20,000 fans for Homecoming! That�s sad. I really wish it weren�t so, but pre-COVID, interest in Ohio football even among Ohio fans was declining.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 7:21:57 AM

shabamon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

If we can find two examples in the last 30 years of undefeated G5 teams who deserved a chance to play for a championship (Boise State and UCF), how big is the problem we're solving for?

And on 99 out of 100 years, the Go Daaddy is about where our champion deserves to be playing.

OUPride
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 9:25:48 AM

I'm not a fan of 16 teams and all champs. I don't think anyone outside of hardcore G5 honks wants to watch Nick Saban fist some 3 loss Troy team in the first round. 8 makes sense: P5 champs, highest G5 and two at-large teams. Determine the at-larges and the seeding by some kind of completely transparent BCS type formula (so the G5 isn't always seeded 8). Sometimes, there'd be an undeserving G5 rep, but in many years, there'd be at least one undeserving P5 champ too.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 10:29:16 AM

OUPride wrote:

Agree completely.

I think it's inevitable that the playoff will expand -- probably to 16 teams. But that expansion isn't going to guarantee all conference champs a spot. It will likely mean that undefeated G5 teams, provided they played a tough enough schedule, will get a spot.

Last year Miami won that MAC at 8-6.

There were 3 2 loss SEC teams, an 11-3 Pac 12 runner up, 4 Big 10 teams with 10+ wins (outside of the Big 10 Champion), a 9-4 Michigan team, an 11 win Big 12 runner up, etc.

The MAC isn't getting a guaranteed spot, as much as we want it. If we want a guaranteed playoff spot, FCS is the only path there.

Pataskala
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 11:32:31 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OUPride wrote:

The BEST we can hope for in an eight-team playoff is ONE G5 team. The highest any G5 team has finished in the CFP rankings is 8th. That was accomplished twice (UCF in 2018 -- their second straight unbeaten regular season -- and Cincy this year -- also unbeaten and after two straight 11-win seasons). So unless a G5 team has an exceptional track record and goes unbeaten, even an eight-team playoff won't guarantee a G5 team a spot. The NCAA would have to guarantee a spot for the best G5 team, which would cause a lot of complaining from higher-ranked "P" teams that are left out. I think if a team goes unbeaten and plays no more than one 1AA team, it should be in the playoff.

We will get by.
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We will survive.

Alan Swank
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 12:54:41 PM

Pataskala wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OUPride wrote:

Then why are we in the division we are in? That makes us one of the few teams in the country in any division that has absolutely no chance of playing for a national championship in the division that we are in.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 6:14:30 PM

Pataskala wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OUPride wrote:

So you are saying we have a chance 🙄

Pataskala
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 6:36:08 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OUPride wrote:

There are 64 other teams sharing our boat. They're in division 1A largely for the TV money (the only national network carrying 1AA games on a regular basis is CBSSN, which has a deal only with the Ivy League) and the payout money from the "P" teams for playing at their place (few "P" teams play 1AA schools anymore).

By rights, 1A football should have the same percentage of teams in its playoff as Division 1 b-ball has -- about 20% (68 out of 350). That means the top 24 or 26 teams (out of 130) should get in. That probably won't happen in our lifetimes.

Last Edited: 12/29/2020 6:40:17 PM by Pataskala

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Bobcat1996
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 7:35:02 PM

Wake Forest, Duke, Vandy, Miss. State, Rutgers, California, Boston College, Washington State, Arizona, UVA, Syracuse, Purdue and a host of others won't be playing for a national championship either. It doesn't matter that they are in the power five. Those schools play in a larger conference, but they have no chance at winning a title. Sure they play in the ACC, SEC, Big Ten and Pac 12, but they have no shot at winning the big game. Boise State and UCF are in that same boat. The same group of schools are selected year in and year out for the final four teams.

Last Edited: 12/29/2020 7:38:29 PM by Bobcat1996

BillyTheCat
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 8:05:08 PM

Pataskala wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OUPride wrote:

It�s no longer IA, it�s FCS and FBS.

Last Edited: 12/29/2020 8:05:38 PM by BillyTheCat

Pataskala
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 10:29:47 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

It�s no longer IA, it�s FCS and FBS.

The FBS and FCS labels were adopted several years ago in an effort to placate some 1AA schools who didn't like the classification. But if you look at ESPN's website it includes the 1A and 1AA references in several places, such as schedules and standings. I haven't heard of any activist groups who've raised concerns with ESPN.

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bobcatsquared
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 11:18:58 PM

Pataskala wrote:

I'm with you, Pataskala.

Just like it was always Riverfront Stadium, where the Reds won the 1975, 1976, and 1990 World Series even after it was changed to Cinergy Field.

Just like it's always been Gund Arena that replaced Richfield Coliseum even after it was changed to Quicken Loans and then Rocket Mortgage.

Pataskala
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/29/2020 11:44:51 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

I'm sure a lot of Cleveland baseball fans still call their stadium "The Jake" and will continue to use "Indians" and "the Tribe" even after the team's name is changed.

As for college football, the new classifications were meant to distinguish between 1AA's playoff system and 1A's BCS system. But the BCS system has morphed into a playoff, just with fewer teams, so the only real distinction is that a lot fewer 1A teams have a shot at a national championship compared to 1AA teams.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Rigged rankings

Posted: 12/30/2020 9:08:35 AM

Pataskala wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

It�s no longer IA, it�s FCS and FBS.

My apologies I forgot that ESPN was the authority. Silly me by going by the classifications listed on NCAA.org. My bad

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