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Topic:  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan

Topic:  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 12:13:21 AM 
Thanks Mid70s and GoCats . . . some very good points.

I wasn't saying Gollon was some superhero. I was just saying that he would really have added some punch to our offense. In one of the few games he played in this year he went 3 for 4 from three. His team mates seem to know when and where to get him the ball. There was good chemistry with him in the game. Also, if he had been available and in some earlier games and he played at the end of the game instead of TK (with maybe Preston as the PG), we probably would have made some free throws down the stretch and won a few more games. I'm trying to remember a worse OHIO guy at the line than TK, and I'm having trouble. There's probably been one, but his name is escaping me at the moment.

Edit: And Dartis and Gollon together would have made the defense have to respect our outside shooting, and perhaps not zone us as much. Those two injures really did hurt us this year. No, Dartis isn't the second coming of Dave Jamerson, either, but he's darn good from beyond the three point line. To ignore we were hurt by injuries this year just isn't a serious argument.

Last Edited: 2/14/2019 12:17:20 AM by OhioCatFan


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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 9:05:57 AM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Now we need to answer 2 questions: who will leave when Saul leaves? And do would it truly hurt us for any specific guy to leave?


Not a lot of talent out there in green and white that can compete in this league. This has been well established. Everyone knows this isn't going to be a quick fix. The new coach is walking into a dumpster fire and he's probably going to have I guess discussions with 5 players minimum about transferring out. Too many bodies in uniform that aren't MAC talent caliber. Recruiting has gone sideways and new coach has a total rebuild on his hands thanks to this five year mess left behind.


Give it a rest! Geez. Bad year this year, yes!! But we lost Dartis and Gollon, no small loss. You can hate Saul all you want. He was without Campbell a year, Carter a year and yet had a 23 win season followed by 20 wins. Go on hating ....

Better yet go drool over Groce some more.



Nothing against Dartis ... but would this team really be that much better?

He's a nice player, but Ohio is 3-8 in the MAC and could very well end up 3-15.

With Dartis ... what are they ... 6-12?

Ohio has 3 wins vs two of the worst teams in the league.

Their 8 losses are by an average of 14+ points per game.

I'm sorry. This is just not a very talented team. Period.


I honestly think a full year of a 100% healthy Dartis and Gollon changes this team a lot. As GoCats said elsewhere, not competing with UB or Toledo good, but absolutely better than what we're seeing now, and probably closer to the .500 mark. The two of them are guards that can actually make shots, which is very clearly the A-number one thing that is lacking right now - shot makers.


Love Jimmy G, but I think people are overestimating this a bit. Yes, he's an improvement to what we have from the outside right now...but come on...he's not Dave Jamerson.


Do you consciously try to make an ass of yourself with every post?



Sorry if my assessment of Jimmy G doesn't meet your standards. As I said, I like Jimmy G. Solid player. But as someone else on this board so eloquently stated he probably couldn't crack the top 6 on another MAC squad. He's not Dave Jamerson....he's not Tommy Freeman. I just don't think he'd make a big difference with the win-loss record. Not sure if you've looked at this roster, but we need much more than just a healthy Jimmy G. Jimmy G gives you it his all and is solid. But let's not blow this out of proportion. Jimmy G averaged 4.6 PPG in 58 career games as a Bobcat. Is that me being an ass? No. It's me bringing real numbers to the table.

Last Edited: 2/14/2019 9:09:34 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 10:43:10 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Love Jimmy G, but I think people are overestimating this a bit. Yes, he's an improvement to what we have from the outside right now...but come on...he's not Dave Jamerson.


Another strawman punched out. Did anyone actually say he was a Dave Jamerson? So what? He's a darn good player. Perhaps, next to the dearly departed Dartis, our best three-point shooter. Also, the best foul shooter on our team. To imply that the team wouldn't be remarkable better with him in the lineup is disingenuous.



In 58 games he is a career 4.6ppg scorer. Not sure where the love affair is, or the belief in production is. Most of his points were as a set shooter off of reversals and kick outs. If he was a scoring threat, could he get his shot off? At the end of the day, he's not even Rick Scarberry, who was a great CAT, but a limited player.


I'd say he's more likely what we saw last year. Look at the game log. When he played significant minutes, he scored quite a bit. The 4.6ppg scoreline isn't a reflection of what he was able to contribute now. It's very realistic to think he might have been capable of 7-10 ppg this year.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-gollon... /


EDIT: For those unwilling to click on the link, Jimmy G scored 10+ in 7 of the final 10 games last year, and played 22 minutes or more in the final 11 games. Since we can all agree he's a better shot maker than TK, and probably player than Cowart and Preston, his presence on the floor would have made this bunch better.

Last Edited: 2/14/2019 10:52:06 AM by OU_Country

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 10:44:57 AM 
FearLeon wrote:

Sorry if my assessment of Jimmy G doesn't meet your standards. As I said, I like Jimmy G. Solid player. But as someone else on this board so eloquently stated he probably couldn't crack the top 6 on another MAC squad. He's not Dave Jamerson....he's not Tommy Freeman. I just don't think he'd make a big difference with the win-loss record. Not sure if you've looked at this roster, but we need much more than just a healthy Jimmy G. Jimmy G gives you it his all and is solid. But let's not blow this out of proportion. Jimmy G averaged 4.6 PPG in 58 career games as a Bobcat. Is that me being an ass? No. It's me bringing real numbers to the table.


If you're referring to career numbers, those aren't indicative of where his game is now. Almost no player is the same player as a 4th year that he was as a frosh. Use a little uncommon sense and some reasoning skills.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 11:18:07 AM 
I'll take Gollon on my starting five any day of the week. He's a Mike Reese (sp) Jaivon Harris type of guy - glue. As for being in the top 6 of other MAC teams, from what I've seen in the Convo this year he could be in that mix for at least half of the teams who have been here so far.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 12:40:04 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:

Sorry if my assessment of Jimmy G doesn't meet your standards. As I said, I like Jimmy G. Solid player. But as someone else on this board so eloquently stated he probably couldn't crack the top 6 on another MAC squad. He's not Dave Jamerson....he's not Tommy Freeman. I just don't think he'd make a big difference with the win-loss record. Not sure if you've looked at this roster, but we need much more than just a healthy Jimmy G. Jimmy G gives you it his all and is solid. But let's not blow this out of proportion. Jimmy G averaged 4.6 PPG in 58 career games as a Bobcat. Is that me being an ass? No. It's me bringing real numbers to the table.


If you're referring to career numbers, those aren't indicative of where his game is now. Almost no player is the same player as a 4th year that he was as a frosh. Use a little uncommon sense and some reasoning skills.


Totally missing the boat. Is Jimmy G an upgrade to what we have at the guard position...yes. Do I think we'd be 3-1 or 4-0 these last four games with him...no. I think we'd probably still be 0-4. Not a shot at Jimmy G. It's just the state of where this team is and right now and it's a terrible basketball team. Issues run deeper than Jimmy G hitting a free throw and making a couple of threes.

Last Edited: 2/14/2019 12:43:40 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 12:50:40 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:

Sorry if my assessment of Jimmy G doesn't meet your standards. As I said, I like Jimmy G. Solid player. But as someone else on this board so eloquently stated he probably couldn't crack the top 6 on another MAC squad. He's not Dave Jamerson....he's not Tommy Freeman. I just don't think he'd make a big difference with the win-loss record. Not sure if you've looked at this roster, but we need much more than just a healthy Jimmy G. Jimmy G gives you it his all and is solid. But let's not blow this out of proportion. Jimmy G averaged 4.6 PPG in 58 career games as a Bobcat. Is that me being an ass? No. It's me bringing real numbers to the table.


If you're referring to career numbers, those aren't indicative of where his game is now. Almost no player is the same player as a 4th year that he was as a frosh. Use a little uncommon sense and some reasoning skills.


Totally missing the boat. Is Jimmy G an upgrade to what we have at the guard position...yes. Do I think we'd be 3-1 or 4-0 these last four games with him...no. I think we'd probably still be 0-4. Not a shot at Jimmy G. It's just the state of where this team is and right now and it's a terrible basketball team. Issues run deeper than Jimmy G hitting a free throw and making a couple of threes.


Tough to speculate on specifics of the wins and losses, but where they are now wouldn't be the same assuming they'd had full, 100% healthy seasons from Dartis and Gollon. I'm sure of that.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 2:21:58 PM 
I don't think anyone can say anything definitive, but we are a historically bad 3 point shooting team. And the two people who would make the biggest difference in that specific area are out with injuries. Teams can collapse the paint on us all day and dare us to shoot our way out of it and we can't do it. Period. If just one of Dartis or Gollon were healthy it changes the way a team has to defend us.

You can read this as a defense of Saul or whatever you want... I'm no basketball genius, but this is easy for someone like even me to see. Anyone who says injuries don't matter is a complete bullsh1++er. The players on the floor matter.
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 3:14:20 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
I don't think anyone can say anything definitive, but we are a historically bad 3 point shooting team. And the two people who would make the biggest difference in that specific area are out with injuries. Teams can collapse the paint on us all day and dare us to shoot our way out of it and we can't do it. Period. If just one of Dartis or Gollon were healthy it changes the way a team has to defend us.

You can read this as a defense of Saul or whatever you want... I'm no basketball genius, but this is easy for someone like even me to see. Anyone who says injuries don't matter is a complete bullsh1++er. The players on the floor matter.


You can't have two designated "shooters" and hope to survive in this era. You have to recruit guys who can shoot. Everywhere on the floor. Everybody has to be able to shoot. You can get away with one, maybe two guys on the floor at the same time who can't in college. None in the NBA.

So I'd say you can live with Doug Taylor out there. But everybody else needs to be able to step out and hit at least 30-32 percent of the 3-pointers they take. They've got three guards who play extensive minutes who all shoot under 29 percent from 3-point range and the guy who has the ball most of the time in his hands shoots it at 19 percent. That's untenable.

Especially given the step back in athleticism this program has seen from its roster over the past five years. It's one thing if that happened and they could shoot. We got less athletic AND less adept at shooting. That's a disaster.

Last Edited: 2/14/2019 3:30:59 PM by .

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/14/2019 11:18:09 PM 
SBH wrote:
Gollon wouldn't start for any other MAC team. Maybe not even in the top 6.


He is a role player on one of the worst teams in the MAC. At best, he would have been a walk-on on a Groce or Christian team.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 12:09:47 AM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Gollon wouldn't start for any other MAC team. Maybe not even in the top 6.


He is a role player on one of the worst teams in the MAC. At best, he would have been a walk-on on a Groce or Christian team.


Buck and SBH...I'm with ya but guess we are in the minority on Jimmy G. We all realize he's not Dave Jamerson. But he's not even close to Tommy Freeman, Chad Estis, Bubba Walther....I'll stop here. Solid player. But jeesh....listening to these rants you'd think a healthy Jimmy G was going to average 15 PPG the rest of the way and we would have gone 3-1 during this current 4 game losing skid. Come on....we all love Jimmy G...but he wasn't going to do that.

Last Edited: 2/15/2019 12:28:07 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 10:33:39 AM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Gollon wouldn't start for any other MAC team. Maybe not even in the top 6.


He is a role player on one of the worst teams in the MAC. At best, he would have been a walk-on on a Groce or Christian team.


He would be a starter for this team as it stands right now. And he's not so bad he'd be a walk-on for a Christian team. Have you already forgotten Travis Wilkins? Gollon, besides his inability to remain healthy, is the same type of player, while not as proficient a 3-pt shooter, he's probably better all around.

It's safe to say there are a few teams in the MAC he wouldn't start for, sure, but to say "any other MAC team" is very likely inaccurate. I don't think 7-17 WMU has so many good players that he couldn't possibly start for them. While he probably wouldn't start, Akron isn't so flush with great shooting guards that he couldn't get PT for them.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 10:42:05 AM 
FearLeon wrote:

Buck and SBH...I'm with ya but guess we are in the minority on Jimmy G. We all realize he's not Dave Jamerson. But he's not even close to Tommy Freeman, Chad Estis, Bubba Walther....I'll stop here. Solid player. But jeesh....listening to these rants you'd think a healthy Jimmy G was going to average 15 PPG the rest of the way and we would have gone 3-1 during this current 4 game losing skid. Come on....we all love Jimmy G...but he wasn't going to do that.


Ever consider that your own rants, and the fact that you're (admittedly) in the minority on this one just might mean you're incorrect on what kind of difference he and Dartis could have made for this group?

I don't believe anyone said Gollon is equivalent to Tommy Freeman, or Dave Jamerson, or anyone else --- besides you, and those you stated are in the minority. I think most of us said he and Jordan would make a big difference for this team, and that with them, this team would be better. That's it. The speculation of the record they'd have had in the last four games is also 100% your speculation to feed your argument. Come on.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 6:33:10 PM 
OU_Country wrote:

He would be a starter for this team as it stands right now. And he's not so bad he'd be a walk-on for a Christian team. Have you already forgotten Travis Wilkins? Gollon, besides his inability to remain healthy, is the same type of player, while not as proficient a 3-pt shooter, he's probably better all around.


Gollon has shown that he cannot stay on the court and disqualifies him from being properly compared.

OU_Country wrote:

It's safe to say there are a few teams in the MAC he wouldn't start for, sure, but to say "any other MAC team" is very likely inaccurate. I don't think 7-17 WMU has so many good players that he couldn't possibly start for them. While he probably wouldn't start, Akron isn't so flush with great shooting guards that he couldn't get PT for them.


You have to completely blind if you think Groce is throwing away a scholarship on a player like Gollon. Think about his recruiting and OU and Akron. He's not recruiting non division 1 players.
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 10:08:52 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Now we need to answer 2 questions: who will leave when Saul leaves? And do would it truly hurt us for any specific guy to leave?


Not a lot of talent out there in green and white that can compete in this league. This has been well established. Everyone knows this isn't going to be a quick fix. The new coach is walking into a dumpster fire and he's probably going to have I guess discussions with 5 players minimum about transferring out. Too many bodies in uniform that aren't MAC talent caliber. Recruiting has gone sideways and new coach has a total rebuild on his hands thanks to this five year mess left behind.


Give it a rest! Geez. Bad year this year, yes!! But we lost Dartis and Gollon, no small loss. You can hate Saul all you want. He was without Campbell a year, Carter a year and yet had a 23 win season followed by 20 wins. Go on hating ....

Better yet go drool over Groce some more.



Nothing against Dartis ... but would this team really be that much better?

He's a nice player, but Ohio is 3-8 in the MAC and could very well end up 3-15.

With Dartis ... what are they ... 6-12?

Ohio has 3 wins vs two of the worst teams in the league.

Their 8 losses are by an average of 14+ points per game.

I'm sorry. This is just not a very talented team. Period.


I honestly think a full year of a 100% healthy Dartis and Gollon changes this team a lot. As GoCats said elsewhere, not competing with UB or Toledo good, but absolutely better than what we're seeing now, and probably closer to the .500 mark. The two of them are guards that can actually make shots, which is very clearly the A-number one thing that is lacking right now - shot makers.


Love Jimmy G, but I think people are overestimating this a bit. Yes, he's an improvement to what we have from the outside right now...but come on...he's not Dave Jamerson.


Do you consciously try to make an ass of yourself with every post?



Sorry if my assessment of Jimmy G doesn't meet your standards. As I said, I like Jimmy G. Solid player. But as someone else on this board so eloquently stated he probably couldn't crack the top 6 on another MAC squad. He's not Dave Jamerson....he's not Tommy Freeman. I just don't think he'd make a big difference with the win-loss record. Not sure if you've looked at this roster, but we need much more than just a healthy Jimmy G. Jimmy G gives you it his all and is solid. But let's not blow this out of proportion. Jimmy G averaged 4.6 PPG in 58 career games as a Bobcat. Is that me being an ass? No. It's me bringing real numbers to the table.


No, you compared Gollon to Jamerson. Your post speaks for itself. Too bad you can't refute facts once publicly posted. My only suggestion to you is THINK before you post.

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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 10:14:16 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Gollon wouldn't start for any other MAC team. Maybe not even in the top 6.


He is a role player on one of the worst teams in the MAC. At best, he would have been a walk-on on a Groce or Christian team.


He would be a starter for this team as it stands right now. And he's not so bad he'd be a walk-on for a Christian team. Have you already forgotten Travis Wilkins? Gollon, besides his inability to remain healthy, is the same type of player, while not as proficient a 3-pt shooter, he's probably better all around.

It's safe to say there are a few teams in the MAC he wouldn't start for, sure, but to say "any other MAC team" is very likely inaccurate. I don't think 7-17 WMU has so many good players that he couldn't possibly start for them. While he probably wouldn't start, Akron isn't so flush with great shooting guards that he couldn't get PT for them.


Wilkins was a great example. Leon again brings up Groce ... I guss he like guys who get into trouble who can play ball as better than those who just play ball without the extracurricular stuff. Gollon the 'doctor to be' or Basett the guy charged with assualt on court Street. I'll take Gollon. More to life than basketball.

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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/15/2019 10:17:15 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:

He would be a starter for this team as it stands right now. And he's not so bad he'd be a walk-on for a Christian team. Have you already forgotten Travis Wilkins? Gollon, besides his inability to remain healthy, is the same type of player, while not as proficient a 3-pt shooter, he's probably better all around.


Gollon has shown that he cannot stay on the court and disqualifies him from being properly compared.

[QUOTE=OU_Country]
It's safe to say there are a few teams in the MAC he wouldn't start for, sure, but to say "any other MAC team" is very likely inaccurate. I don't think 7-17 WMU has so many good players that he couldn't possibly start for them. While he probably wouldn't start, Akron isn't so flush with great shooting guards that he couldn't get PT for them.


You have to completely blind if you think Groce is throwing away a scholarship on a player like Gollon. Think about his recruiting and OU and Akron. He's not recruiting non division 1 players.
[/QUO

Groce recruits guys who seem to have issues with law enforcement. Let's not bring up Illinois as well. Facts don't mean much to you I guess at times.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/16/2019 12:29:09 PM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Gollon wouldn't start for any other MAC team. Maybe not even in the top 6.


He is a role player on one of the worst teams in the MAC. At best, he would have been a walk-on on a Groce or Christian team.


He would be a starter for this team as it stands right now. And he's not so bad he'd be a walk-on for a Christian team. Have you already forgotten Travis Wilkins? Gollon, besides his inability to remain healthy, is the same type of player, while not as proficient a 3-pt shooter, he's probably better all around.

It's safe to say there are a few teams in the MAC he wouldn't start for, sure, but to say "any other MAC team" is very likely inaccurate. I don't think 7-17 WMU has so many good players that he couldn't possibly start for them. While he probably wouldn't start, Akron isn't so flush with great shooting guards that he couldn't get PT for them.


Leon again brings up Groce ...


Curious Mid-70's...difficulty reading? Or do you have trouble comprehending the "quote box" feature and which poster said what?

Never once did I bring up Groce and Jimmy G in the same sentence. You are the one that keeps talking about Groce. Sounds like you might have a slight obsession there with him and his squad. But to have this much discussion about a player who many feel is the difference maker for Ohio who could maybe only start for one other MAC school (Western Michigan) tells you all you need to know about #SaulBallRecruiting

Last Edited: 2/16/2019 3:47:12 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan
   Posted: 2/16/2019 4:01:25 PM 
FearLeon, be nice to our senior citizens...I mean elders.

Last Edited: 2/16/2019 4:01:41 PM by Buck.Cat

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Cats5
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 23 Thread: Eastern Michigan (NT)
   Posted: 2/16/2019 6:22:03 PM 

Last Edited: 2/16/2019 6:31:04 PM by Cats5

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