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Topic:  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay

Topic:  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,144

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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 8:38:59 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Hmm....well we won I guess? Winning ugly is better than losing pretty they say.

Checked the score in between watching OSU-UM. Saw we were up 18 in the 1st half. Peay isn't very good (got rolled by Campbell in Jamaica). Figured that was that. Surprised to check back and see us down, then OT. Not good.

A couple of box score observations (so those who watched in person feel free to correct me):

1) We are now 25-117 from 3pt for a whopping 21.4%. Five games and 117 attempts is bordering on no longer being a small sample size. That's just AWFUL.

Are we shooting with our eyes open or just like using the Force?

On a serious note - I know we're missing Dartis and Gollon, but no legitimate D1 college team should be a 21% shooting team from 3. Question is, is it the defenses we've been playing? Is it the offense we're running or not running to get open looks? Or are we literally just this awful at shooting?

Edit to add - Does anyone know Saul's view/opinion/use of data analytics? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that to be a successful offensive team, the three areas you have to focus on are points at the rim (either with a dominant big, athletic guards/wings who can penetrate, or transition buckets), free throws (a lost art these days it seems) and successfully shooting the 3. Mid-majors aren't going to get many dominant bigs these days as they usually all get sucked up by the P5, which would make you think coaches would focus on finding athletic penetrators/slashers who can get to the rim and finish and "3 and D" guys who can turn the opponent over and/or hit the 3. It's the best way to be an equalizer for mid-majors against major programs. Our current roster seems to...not...follow that theory?

2) Teyvion Kirk may be a good player but he is NOT a PG. Dude has a 14:24 ast:to ratio. He's averaging 4.8 turnovers per game. I don't care how much he scores - you can't run an effective offense if your primary ballhandler and PG is turning the ball over that much. That's why last year we ended up having to play Block at PG so much since he was the only guy who could initiate the offense without turning it over. A lot of people (me included) gave him a bit of a pass since he was a true freshman and showed flashes of ability to score/rebound/defend. He's not a freshman anymore though. I listed Kirk's ability to improve his ast:to ratio as one of the biggest areas we needed to fix in the offseason. Doesn't look any better. Whoops.

3) Our newcomers appear to be....less than we needed. Cowart appears to be a decent role player and piece on the defensive end. The rest? Springs is redshirting. Murrell never gets off the bench. James and McMurray won't be getting off the bench come MAC season and once Gollon gets back. That means we've essentially only added Cowart and Preston. One guy's shooting 37% and 21% from 3 (Cowart) and the other is shooting 37% and 27% from 3 (Preston) while averaging 6 and 5 ppg respectively. Doesn't mean they aren't decent pieces. Doesn't mean they can't/won't improve - but it also doesn't scream impact player who is going to close the gap with the Buffalo's and Kent's of the world.

4) The only thing that matters is March, but things aren't looking good for Saul.


Must read^^^^. Some great takes. #3 is the thing that has ultimately doomed Saul. Recruiting has just been abysmal.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 10:23:02 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:

2) Teyvion Kirk may be a good player but he is NOT a PG. Dude has a 14:24 ast:to ratio. He's averaging 4.8 turnovers per game. I don't care how much he scores - you can't run an effective offense if your primary ballhandler and PG is turning the ball over that much. That's why last year we ended up having to play Block at PG so much since he was the only guy who could initiate the offense without turning it over. A lot of people (me included) gave him a bit of a pass since he was a true freshman and showed flashes of ability to score/rebound/defend. He's not a freshman anymore though. I listed Kirk's ability to improve his ast:to ratio as one of the biggest areas we needed to fix in the offseason. Doesn't look any better. Whoops.


Teyvion Kirk does a lot of good things. He drives well, he is a good offensive rebounder and he's aggressive going after loose balls. He's also a disaster as a PG. Throw out the horrible A/TO ration and next game just watch when and where players receive passes from him. Almost nobody is catching the ball center mass above the waist. (would love to see a breakdown of our 3pt shooting with him on and off the court) And he's not showing any signs that he is going to change because A) that's who he is and running an offense is not in his arsenal and B) Saul won't hold him or, as we have seen for five years, anyone accountable for doing whatever the heck they please on the court. I would love to see him do what Christian did with Bean and sit Kirk for as long as it takes until he gets with the program.
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longtiimelurker
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Member Since: 2/2/2017
Post Count: 587

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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 11:18:41 AM 
OUVan wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:

2) Teyvion Kirk may be a good player but he is NOT a PG. Dude has a 14:24 ast:to ratio. He's averaging 4.8 turnovers per game. I don't care how much he scores - you can't run an effective offense if your primary ballhandler and PG is turning the ball over that much. That's why last year we ended up having to play Block at PG so much since he was the only guy who could initiate the offense without turning it over. A lot of people (me included) gave him a bit of a pass since he was a true freshman and showed flashes of ability to score/rebound/defend. He's not a freshman anymore though. I listed Kirk's ability to improve his ast:to ratio as one of the biggest areas we needed to fix in the offseason. Doesn't look any better. Whoops.


Teyvion Kirk does a lot of good things. He drives well, he is a good offensive rebounder and he's aggressive going after loose balls. He's also a disaster as a PG. Throw out the horrible A/TO ration and next game just watch when and where players receive passes from him. Almost nobody is catching the ball center mass above the waist. (would love to see a breakdown of our 3pt shooting with him on and off the court) And he's not showing any signs that he is going to change because A) that's who he is and running an offense is not in his arsenal and B) Saul won't hold him or, as we have seen for five years, anyone accountable for doing whatever the heck they please on the court. I would love to see him do what Christian did with Bean and sit Kirk for as long as it takes until he gets with the program.


He is a PG by definition and history. He was recruited as a PG and hyped all through High School/AAU as a PG. He has chosen NOT to be a PG, or at least not an effective PG. Sitting him will only speed up a transfer. Kirk and folks close to him appear to be in his head telling him what he should be and what he should be doing on the court. Too bad he is listening. He has the skills and tools to be a PG. I would caution anyone from trying to plug him in elsewhere. Arguments that he should move over to PG or function as a "slasher" are sure to be present. He might be wise to watch game film of someone like Rondo or similar and then do what he needs to improve his passing, handles and decision making. His choices will define him.

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berniebobcat
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Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 11:48:36 AM 
Very well stated. It seems to me that there is a glimmer of hope. You failed to mention Vander Plas who has rebounded well and shot decently. He appears to have the potential to develop into a contributor. The second thin thread of hope is that Gollon and (in particular) Dartis are able to return and play up to prior form. Those two could provide the shooting production so badly lacking so far.

Any word on the status of our two medically dis able players?
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allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 2:12:17 PM 
Saul needs to be the judge of Kirk and guide him, I think we are speculating by questioning who is in this kid's head. he needs a better handle and better shot selection, but Coach Saul is the one to determine whether he is a pg or not, Preston needs to be a little less docile and Cowart needs to keep finding his way in my opinion. I like Kirk's attitude. We need an aggresive guard in the back court.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 3:00:15 PM 
I haven't seen much of us play this year, but what would Kirk's A/TO ratio be if we weren't like 8/975 on 3-pointers? And what if better shooting meant that he didn't feel the need to drive into traffic as often because we're simply not scoring without him getting to the line or our bigs getting the ball? Saul is right about one thing, some kids need to step up and hit some shots.
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BobcatBeReal
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 3:30:33 PM 
We won, guess that's on coach too.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 4:10:57 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
We won, guess that's on coach too.


Yes we won and the season is just beginning, it will start and end with Saul. The Cats learned not to let up last game, now lets beat Iona and move forward.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Maddog13
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 5 Thread: Austin Peay
   Posted: 11/25/2018 7:54:05 PM 
Good win for the Bobcats! This game certainly seemed to present though the best and worst of the program at this time. It is clear that the success or lack thereof of the program this year will hinge largely on shooting percentage and some luck in terms of keeping such a small rotation of players free of injury. What I don't like about Saul-ball is that it seems to lack the physicality underneath the basket needed to compensate when the team's shooting percentage is down. Saul seems to intellectually understand the importance of consistency, but has yet to get this to translate out on the floor from game to game or even half to half. I also continue to believe that he has yet to fully grasp the level of talent that he needs to recruit in order to be competitive in the current day MAC. That's why I am concerned that Buffalo may actually hang 150 points on us at the Convo this year. Compared to Ohio, Buffalo looks like an NBA team.
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