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Topic:  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread

Topic:  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/22/2018 1:00:27 PM 
Tracking of illicit payments should probably go in a hand-written ledger hidden in a hollowed out 1958 World Book on the bookshelf in the house of a conspirator's grandmother in Boca Raton, not in a computerized spreadsheet. Sometimes the old ways are the best when it comes to crime.

Last Edited: 2/22/2018 1:02:23 PM by .
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/22/2018 5:07:12 PM 

Brian Smith wrote:
Tracking of illicit payments should probably go in a hand-written ledger hidden in a hollowed out 1958 World Book on the bookshelf in the house of a conspirator's grandmother in Boca Raton, not in a computerized spreadsheet. Sometimes the old ways are the best when it comes to crime. 

smiley frown cheeky angry cool indecision

or, in words . . . that's very funny . . . but sad and crazy at the same time . . . 

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/22/2018 10:13:02 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
Tracking of illicit payments should probably go in a hand-written ledger hidden in a hollowed out 1958 World Book on the bookshelf in the house of a conspirator's grandmother in Boca Raton, not in a computerized spreadsheet. Sometimes the old ways are the best when it comes to crime.


or, in words . . . that's very funny . . . but sad and crazy at the same time . . .


That is assuming these clowns ever thought that this was a crime that anyone would think to look at. The aloofness that exist by these people is amazing. I’m sure Borna has been in a room with these guys, maybe shared a beer with a few as I have and the arrogance of some of them would lead you to believe they are that brash.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 8:35:48 AM 
And boom goes the Dynamite!

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-deta...
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 8:43:44 AM 
Nobody is safe. And I feel like this report is just a tip of the iceberg.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:19:43 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Nobody is safe. And I feel like this report is just a tip of the iceberg.


Here comes the second boom. It looks like Utah and Wichita State wre the only midmajors so far. http://tv5.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22...

Last Edited: 2/23/2018 10:27:08 AM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:28:39 AM 
allen wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Nobody is safe. And I feel like this report is just a tip of the iceberg.


Here comes the second boom. It looks like Utah and Wichita State wre the only midmajors so far. http://tv5.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22...


PAC 12 is a mid major conference? ;)
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:40:31 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
allen wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Nobody is safe. And I feel like this report is just a tip of the iceberg.


Here comes the second boom. It looks like Utah and Wichita State wre the only midmajors so far. http://tv5.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22...


PAC 12 is a mid major conference? ;)


I forgot that they switched conferences, sorry

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 11:05:44 AM 
It's striking to me that the amounts in play here are so small.

The money given to guys like Isaiah Whitehead basically amounts to minimum wage if you annualize it.

I'm not sure they're necessarily incentivized to do it, but if the NBA could expand their rosters to the point that each team could have, say, 7 2-way players who spend most of their time in the D-League, suddenly there's room for another 150 players. Even if you paid each of them 45k annually, on a per-team basis that's only another 225k annually. In other words, for the cost of a third of a minimum contract they could expand their minor league system pretty drastically.

Let's say you're Colin Sexton or Wendall Carter or Dennis Smith and you can be make 45k a year and potentially see time in the NBA right away on a 2-way contract. Don't you seriously consider that over Alabama or NC State or Duke given that there are no eligibility restrictions, you get to play against a higher level of competition, and you're not limited in terms of practice hours a week?
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doubledribble
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 11:48:33 AM 
Bobcat Sense of Shame, what you are describing could very well be what we see not very far down this road.
People need to understand that the information that comes out of this FBI investigation will be very limited as far as schools, players, amounts of money, etc. because this is just the info that has floated to the top of one cesspool agent! You are asleep if you do not figure out that there are many agents, programs, players, coaches, parents, and shoe companies involved in this type of activity. The bomb is still ticking....TICK...TOCK...TICK...TOCK

Last Edited: 2/23/2018 11:50:41 AM by doubledribble
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 12:03:03 PM 
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, but isn't the release of this information by Yahoo Sports irresponsible? Doesn't this jeopardize the use of this evidence in court? I know we have several legal-eagles on this board, so I stand to be correct. And, I promise not to be obtuse about it, either. ;-)

To me it really says something about the character of some of these players that they take money illegally from one sleazebag outfit and then stiff them and sign with another sleazebag outfit. I guess there truly is no honor among thieves!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 12:55:07 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, but isn't the release of this information by Yahoo Sports irresponsible? Doesn't this jeopardize the use of this evidence in court? I know we have several legal-eagles on this board, so I stand to be correct. And, I promise not to be obtuse about it, either. ;-)

To me it really says something about the character of some of these players that they take money illegally from one sleazebag outfit and then stiff them and sign with another sleazebag outfit. I guess there truly is no honor among thieves!



The leak is to apply pressure to get people to start talking. They have much more than they have leaked. Just like what Mueller just did to Gates.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 1:33:28 PM 
So what role does the NCAA play in all of this? As a major investigator of all things compliance and busting kids for getting tattoos or eating a meal at a banquet, how does this not get noticed? Or did it and they looked the other way? Or were they complicit?

Looking at NCAA's finances (as a non-profit, mind you), they generated over $1B in revenue in one year (based on their last financial report) and ended the fiscal year with more the $400M in assets. (source: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016-17NCAAFin_Fi... )

They paid 17 executives more than $10 million in compensation in one year. That's an average of more than $608,000 per NCAA exec per year. (source: https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.g... )

So THEY are making the money. The players are not. And the NCAA doesn't want them to. So is it possible that the NCAA looked the other way to keep certain players and programs happy on the paying players front? Or was the NCAA completely oblivious to this? In either case, this has serious implications for the NCAA.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 3:27:50 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
So what role does the NCAA play in all of this? As a major investigator of all things compliance and busting kids for getting tattoos or eating a meal at a banquet, how does this not get noticed? Or did it and they looked the other way? Or were they complicit?

Looking at NCAA's finances (as a non-profit, mind you), they generated over $1B in revenue in one year (based on their last financial report) and ended the fiscal year with more the $400M in assets. (source: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016-17NCAAFin_Fi... )

They paid 17 executives more than $10 million in compensation in one year. That's an average of more than $608,000 per NCAA exec per year. (source: https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.g... )

So THEY are making the money. The players are not. And the NCAA doesn't want them to. So is it possible that the NCAA looked the other way to keep certain players and programs happy on the paying players front? Or was the NCAA completely oblivious to this? In either case, this has serious implications for the NCAA.


Hand me $10k in cash and see if anyone notices, or many of the other ways money changed hands, it’s not like the NCAA has the power to check bank accounts and look at phones and computers.
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 6:10:01 PM 
Would assume some of these benefits are "taxable income" no? Guessing they were not declared.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 7:51:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioStunter wrote:
So what role does the NCAA play in all of this? As a major investigator of all things compliance and busting kids for getting tattoos or eating a meal at a banquet, how does this not get noticed? Or did it and they looked the other way? Or were they complicit?

Looking at NCAA's finances (as a non-profit, mind you), they generated over $1B in revenue in one year (based on their last financial report) and ended the fiscal year with more the $400M in assets. (source: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016-17NCAAFin_Fi... )

They paid 17 executives more than $10 million in compensation in one year. That's an average of more than $608,000 per NCAA exec per year. (source: https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.g... )

So THEY are making the money. The players are not. And the NCAA doesn't want them to. So is it possible that the NCAA looked the other way to keep certain players and programs happy on the paying players front? Or was the NCAA completely oblivious to this? In either case, this has serious implications for the NCAA.


Hand me $10k in cash and see if anyone notices, or many of the other ways money changed hands, it’s not like the NCAA has the power to check bank accounts and look at phones and computers.


I agree.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:03:57 PM 
somebody hands me 10k it is not going anywhere that could be seen...

Things to remember about today. This is ONE agent. ONE. Know how many of these jokers there are around college basketball?

Coaches can, in no way, be expected to know what the parents/handlers are doing.

To the credit of our AD when new cars and things that raise eyebrows showed up with our athletes behind the Convo beside the "piece of shit white truck" he had the stones and smarts to pick up the phone and call to find out the story. Great job. If the kid is not taking the money, then you got to look at the parents.

There are hundreds of these jokers around summer ball courts from east to west.

The NCAA is a NON profit. It is a large organization. I do not think the salaries there are out of line with the top 10 salaries of many smaller organizations (Blue Cross, Nationwide and most health care insurers come to mind) and I suspect they are doing a lot more work than many of those CEOs and under a LOT more scrutiny. We talk about folks making money while the athletes do not get paid. Laughable. I have been around many athletes who are thankful for the degree and the free education. I have not been around more than a handful who have lamented NOT getting paid. THe folks bitching loudest about athletes not getting paid are folks who were never athletes. Mike and Mike used to go back and forth. Greenberg was the loudest proponent of paying athletes while Golic and his kids were thankful for what they had been given. Greenberg became the poster boy, to me,of the stereotypical NON athlete lamenting the Poor Poor athletes being taken advantage of....

The dominoes will fall and college sports will change. I have heard several coaches who adamantly said today. "We just want it cleaned up" and I hear in their voices that same lament I have heard from many coaches who feel like they have been forced to make a choice of running a clean program or get passed by. I hope Emmerich makes changes that insulate student athletes from folks that are looking to make money on them. Though I am a vocal critic of many things they do the NCAA is a pretty spectacular undertaking that provides a lot of good opportunities for far many more folks past the household names. I am now waiting for the academians who hate college sports with every fibre of their being to start with their opines.



never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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ohio9704
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:21:22 PM 
Things blowing up in Tucson right now!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22...
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:24:35 PM 
ohio9704 wrote:
Things blowing up in Tucson right now!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22...


Wow. I would think that he'll have to be fired immediately.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:37:17 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
somebody hands me 10k it is not going anywhere that could be seen...

Things to remember about today. This is ONE agent. ONE. Know how many of these jokers there are around college basketball?

Coaches can, in no way, be expected to know what the parents/handlers are doing.

To the credit of our AD when new cars and things that raise eyebrows showed up with our athletes behind the Convo beside the "piece of shit white truck" he had the stones and smarts to pick up the phone and call to find out the story. Great job. If the kid is not taking the money, then you got to look at the parents.

There are hundreds of these jokers around summer ball courts from east to west.

The NCAA is a NON profit. It is a large organization. I do not think the salaries there are out of line with the top 10 salaries of many smaller organizations (Blue Cross, Nationwide and most health care insurers come to mind) and I suspect they are doing a lot more work than many of those CEOs and under a LOT more scrutiny. We talk about folks making money while the athletes do not get paid. Laughable. I have been around many athletes who are thankful for the degree and the free education. I have not been around more than a handful who have lamented NOT getting paid. THe folks bitching loudest about athletes not getting paid are folks who were never athletes. Mike and Mike used to go back and forth. Greenberg was the loudest proponent of paying athletes while Golic and his kids were thankful for what they had been given. Greenberg became the poster boy, to me,of the stereotypical NON athlete lamenting the Poor Poor athletes being taken advantage of....

The dominoes will fall and college sports will change. I have heard several coaches who adamantly said today. "We just want it cleaned up" and I hear in their voices that same lament I have heard from many coaches who feel like they have been forced to make a choice of running a clean program or get passed by. I hope Emmerich makes changes that insulate student athletes from folks that are looking to make money on them. Though I am a vocal critic of many things they do the NCAA is a pretty spectacular undertaking that provides a lot of good opportunities for far many more folks past the household names. I am now waiting for the academians who hate college sports with every fibre of their being to start with their opines.




I agree with everything but this.
The NCAA is a NON profit. It is a large organization. I do not think the salaries there are out of line with the top 10 salaries of many smaller organizations (Blue Cross, Nationwide and most health care insurers come to mind) and I suspect they are doing a lot more work than many of those CEOs and under a LOT more scrutiny. We talk about folks making money while the athletes do not get paid. Laughable. I have been around many athletes who are thankful for the degree and the free education. I have not been around more than a handful who have lamented NOT getting paid. The folks bitching loudest about athletes not getting paid are folks who were never athletes.
This is all emotion and not factual. We can make judgments off the two or three people that we know, we need to see this through a clear unbiased lens. Most athletes believe that they should get paid. Lonzo Ball just said they should get paid. You have players going to Europe and skipping their first year to get paid. If you are marginal, you may be thankful for the just the degree, but most athletes believe that they are getting exploited. Northwestern tried to join a union and that is one of the best schools in the nation. Heck the power five movement allows there players to get more compensation. The non athletes don't understand their dilemma. I believe that players should follow the rules and fight for the right of compensation. I don't condone taking bribes. Hopefully the NCAA can clean this up without collapsing. Btw, CEO's have different skill sets and oversee the whole organization. They are usually paid by how much money that they raise. At a MAC school, the AD has to effectively non conference games to cover their overhead. The coach is not expected to sell out arena's. Blue Cross is a part of Anthem and Anthem has a 60 billion dollar market cap. Nationwide is a fortune 500 company, neither of these companies are nonprofits, neither are smaller COMPANIES.

Last Edited: 2/23/2018 10:47:14 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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mcbin
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 10:58:08 PM 
EMU HC Rob Murphy implicated.

https://sports.yahoo.com/black-market-diaries-emails-hoop...
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 11:11:07 PM 
Tough year for Arizona. First Rich & Rita Rod completely destroy the football program and now Sean Miller. Wow, just wow. This whole deal is going to get real interesting.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/23/2018 11:28:59 PM 
Borna, I very much appreciate your perspective. I totally agree that paying players is not the answer. I suspect that many of the advocates of this approach really have no concept of the problems that would follow. Would this make the atlhletes employees of the university? Would they be eligible for workman's comp if injured? Would running professional sports teams jeopardize a university’s non-profit status? Would universities have to spinoff their revenue sports athletic teams to some kind of affiliated for-profit corporation? Would athletic teams be eligible for collective bargaining? Would schools just spinoff men’s revenue sports, leaving non-revenue men’s sports and virtually all women’s sports still under the university’s direct control? Would this mean the end of many women’s sports because basketball and football would no longer count as official university sports? Lots of questions and many possible bad outcomes possible.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/24/2018 12:33:10 AM 
If we're going to start paying them to play as STUDENTS in college all because they help the university earn $ through marketing....then why stop there?

Might as well start paying them (albeit less) as STUDENTS in high school too. I mean some of these schools make some big $ on sold out home games, no? What about shoe/apparel deals for high schools? Let's get Spectrum and other regional TV's to start pitching in packages for their HS games of the week and carry that over to the players too.

I mean - for some of the phenoms like LeBron, might as well start paying them in middle school. After all we don't want to "exploit" them.

You think helicopter parents, relatives, boosters, agents, handlers etc are bad NOW? Wait until you start associating real $ payouts to these STUDENTS. What happens when the varsity HS team gets paid but not the JV....and Johnny doesn't make the varsity, but his parents think he should have? Now we're not talking about hurt pride/egos, we're talking about families losing $.

Oh yeah, that will all end swimingly.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: New FBI *basketball* thread
   Posted: 2/24/2018 6:09:13 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Borna, I very much appreciate your perspective. I totally agree that paying players is not the answer. I suspect that many of the advocates of this approach really have no concept of the problems that would follow. Would this make the atlhletes employees of the university? Would they be eligible for workman's comp if injured? Would running professional sports teams jeopardize a university’s non-profit status? Would universities have to spinoff their revenue sports athletic teams to some kind of affiliated for-profit corporation? Would athletic teams be eligible for collective bargaining? Would schools just spinoff men’s revenue sports, leaving non-revenue men’s sports and virtually all women’s sports still under the university’s direct control? Would this mean the end of many women’s sports because basketball and football would no longer count as official university sports? Lots of questions and many possible bad outcomes possible.


Change always brings uncertainty, but sometimes it is necessary. I like the NCAA’s Current policy, but they need to increase the stipend. Maybe do a partial revenue sharing. Too many kids lay it all on the line and risk getting CTE for a ship, most coaches believe that players should get paid, and these are the real people in the know. The kids are adults and they should be able to make a living if they are good enough. The NCAA needs to get out in front of this if we want to keep our talent at home and if they want a bigger CBS contract at the next negotiation. Once the top 100 recruits star going overseas, you could see the next contract drop by 50%. Paying the players would hurt the parity, so they just need to increase the stipend that players currently receive. As debaters, we have to stop making generalizations based off emotion. I remember us talking about whether NCAA basketball players believied that they could go pro and a certain individual made assertions and the actual data opposed this persons opinion. You can’t be a subject matter expert if you don’t know the facts.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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