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Topic: RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Topic: RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

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bornacatfan
General User

Member Since: 8/3/2006
Post Count: 5,706

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RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/22/2018 4:13:00 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

If we're spending the most, we should be among the top four teams in the league every year (barring coaching upheavals), and every five years or so we should win the MAC Tournament. If someone wants more than that, I may personally think they're being a bit greedy, but I sure don't think they're hurting the program.

I am not sure that is always true. If you threw that same amount of money at EMU would the expectations be the same. I am not sure no matter how much you threw at the them up there the culture is ever gonna put them in a position to win.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Recovering Journalist
General User

Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/22/2018 5:56:28 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

I'm only talking about this program. I never mentioned EMU or even a generic MAC team. I agree with you that we have a higher ceiling than most, which merely makes my argument more emphatic.

GraffZ06
General User

Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 1,914

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/22/2018 7:57:08 PM

100%Cat wrote:

Those expectations led most to be disappointed with the results the following season. That season that followed was a 14-2 conference mark and a share of the MAC regular season title. When was the last time that happened? And nobody cared.

That's because it's the MAC. Maybe if the MAC were a top 8ish conference that routinely got 2-3+ bids a season it might matter, but it isn't. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but here goes again. The ONLY thing that matters is NCAA tournament appearances. Nobody cares about MAC regular season anythings beyond how it helps you in the MAC tournament to increase your chances of making the NCAA.

Going 14-2, 15-1, 18-0 or 0-18 in the MAC regular season....matters little. Make it to the dance = success. Don't make it to the dance = not a success.

Nothing about our Sweet 16 run influenced that opinion either. It was true before that as well.

Don't get me wrong. It's perfectly acceptable to ENJOY a season that doesn't end in "success" of making the tournament. But it also doesn't mean you have unrealistic expectations if you deem the season a disappointment or failure by the same scale.

Also, nobody EXPECTS success at a 100% rate. We're not Duke. We're not going to make the tourney this year (most likely). Doesn't mean we should fire SP. However - it does mean we should hold the coach and staff accountable for having successful seasons (making the NCAA tournament) with reasonable probability - say 1 in 3 years to 1 in 5/6 years. We can have a discussion about what that number should actually be based on historical results, current results, current expenditures, landscape of the conference etc etc.

bornacatfan
General User

Member Since: 8/3/2006
Post Count: 5,706

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/23/2018 12:18:03 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

I'm only talking about this program. I never mentioned EMU or even a generic MAC team. I agree with you that we have a higher ceiling than most, which merely makes my argument more emphatic.

Got you. I was reading it more from a general concept across the a league rather than specific to OHIO

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

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RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/23/2018 11:39:02 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

�Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.� - Alexander Pope

Love that quote! For the record, I was very disappointed with JC Year One. I expected a return to the NCAA tournament. With everyone back from a team that was a missed foul shot away from the Elite 8, I don't think that was an unrealistic expectation. Now, I knew it wasn't a guarantee, but I thought it likely. However, IMHO, JC showed just how poor a coach he was by getting plastered by just about every non-conference game we played with any team that had a pulse.

Last Edited: 1/24/2018 10:47:17 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

FearLeon
General User

Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,130

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/24/2018 11:28:47 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

�Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.� - Alexander Pope

Love that quote! For the record, I was very disappointed with JC Year One. I expected a return to the NCAA tournament. With everyone back from a team that was a missed foul shot away from the Sweet Sixteen, I don't think that was an unrealistic expectation. Now, I knew it wasn't a guarantee, but I thought it likely. However, IMHO, JC showed just how poor a coach he was by getting plastered by just about every non-conference game we played with any team that had a pulse.

Just a brutal hire...agree with ya OhioCatFan. Didn't beat anyone that year....all that talent and those players weren't interested in playing for him day one. I was at the Memphis game...such an embarrassment. Guys on the court were turning their back to good ole JC.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

bobcat2nc
General User

Member Since: 12/28/2004
Post Count: 584

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/24/2018 2:02:33 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

�Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.� - Alexander Pope

Love that quote! For the record, I was very disappointed with JC Year One. I expected a return to the NCAA tournament. With everyone back from a team that was a missed foul shot away from the Sweet Sixteen, I don't think that was an unrealistic expectation. Now, I knew it wasn't a guarantee, but I thought it likely. However, IMHO, JC showed just how poor a coach he was by getting plastered by just about every non-conference game we played with any team that had a pulse.

If going back to the NCAA tourney was a guarantee John Groce would have stayed at Ohio.

FearLeon
General User

Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,130

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/24/2018 2:48:45 PM

bobcat2nc wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

�Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.� - Alexander Pope

Love that quote! For the record, I was very disappointed with JC Year One. I expected a return to the NCAA tournament. With everyone back from a team that was a missed foul shot away from the Sweet Sixteen, I don't think that was an unrealistic expectation. Now, I knew it wasn't a guarantee, but I thought it likely. However, IMHO, JC showed just how poor a coach he was by getting plastered by just about every non-conference game we played with any team that had a pulse.

If going back to the NCAA tourney was a guarantee John Groce would have stayed at Ohio.

Come on...that wasn't his thought process. The guy left to become a millionaire and support his family....who could blame him.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

allen
General User

Member Since: 1/24/2006
Post Count: 4,630

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/24/2018 7:05:54 PM

FearLeon wrote:

bobcat2nc wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

�Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.� - Alexander Pope

Love that quote! For the record, I was very disappointed with JC Year One. I expected a return to the NCAA tournament. With everyone back from a team that was a missed foul shot away from the Sweet Sixteen, I don't think that was an unrealistic expectation. Now, I knew it wasn't a guarantee, but I thought it likely. However, IMHO, JC showed just how poor a coach he was by getting plastered by just about every non-conference game we played with any team that had a pulse.

If going back to the NCAA tourney was a guarantee John Groce would have stayed at Ohio.

Come on...that wasn't his thought process. The guy left to become a millionaire and support his family....who could blame him.

Plus his assistants got huge raises as well.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/24/2018 10:49:49 PM

I corrected my original post above. I said "Sweet Sixteen" when I obviously meant "Elite 8." Sometimes my fingers aren't as smart as my brain. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. ;-) Nonetheless, I still think JC was a big bust.

FearLeon
General User

Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,130

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/25/2018 8:14:37 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Nonetheless, I still think JC was a big bust.

And this I totally agree with. We hired a guy who was getting canned by TCU. Our AD drank the Christian MAC Kool-aide. Everyone talks about his great run at Kent State and he never came close to winning an NCAA Tourney or NIT Tourney game (0-5). Boals should have been the hire. It worked with Groce (hiring a former Ohio State assistant with no head coaching experience) and I would have liked our chances the year after Sweet 16 with Boals running the show.

Last Edited: 1/25/2018 8:17:46 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

SBH
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,754

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/25/2018 8:42:12 AM

Perhaps Schaus was hesitant to hire anyone (Boals) with deeper Ohio ties than he had.

That said, I was under the impression that Schaus was/is a basketball guru given his upbringing. Unfortunately, he seems to have made a couple of questionable, high-dollar hires that have set the program back.

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/25/2018 10:27:37 AM

SBH wrote:

Perhaps Schaus was hesitant to hire anyone (Boals) with deeper Ohio ties than he had. . . .

That's a good point. I have noticed that the man does have a thin skin at times.

FearLeon wrote:

. . . Boals should have been the hire. It worked with Groce (hiring a former Ohio State assistant with no head coaching experience) and I would have liked our chances the year after Sweet 16 with Boals running the show.

Also, a good point. In retrospect, Boals certainly could not have done worse, and I suspect he would have done much better.

Deciduous Forest Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,306

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/25/2018 3:56:38 PM

I think it's tough for an AD to hire someone is who is alum and is "pre-beloved". Because if he's a disaster, it's that much more difficult to fire him and you become unpopular quickly.

SBH
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,754

Status: Offline

RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?

Posted: 1/25/2018 3:59:27 PM

Cleve Bryant, for example.

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