BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

where to watch

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Basketball

Topic: RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Topic: RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Author

Message

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 8:58:43 PM

shabamon wrote:

OUVan wrote:

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

Another thing to consider: right or wrong, is Saul ball really all that exciting for a casual basketball viewer to watch? I mean, it's efficient in the way that the Spurs or the Grizzlies of recent years is efficient. But are there any can't-miss players? There's no DJ Cooper or Maurice Ndour or even a Devaughn Washington that does flashy things. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather win than be flashy (both would be great), but truth be told, I'd like to see amazing athleticism every once in a while too.

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

Agreed. And to answer the original question, Saul Ball is fun to watch. This goes way beyond the product on the floor.

It's fun to watch if you're a basketball purist, but we're talking about drawing in the casual fan. Would I rather be a fan of the Spurs or the Thunder? Spurs, because they're always at the top of the standings and they win championships. Who would I rather watch on a weeknight for entertainment? Thunder, despite the fact that they're a game under .500 currently.

I read an article, maybe in Sports Illustrated, about the Cavaliers before Lebron was drafted and one thing that resonated that while Andre Miller and Zydrunas Ilgauskas were very good players back then, no one was packing the arena to see them. Look, Jason Carter is a very good player. I think he will win POTY in the MAC at least once, but I don't think anyone is going to say to their buddy "Hey, you gotta check out this Carter kid."

Sorry, but we had good attendance and student participation when TOS was here. We had the MAC POY going into last season. We had a 1st team All-MAC guy last year. We've had a preseason 1st team All-MAC player going into this year. It has nothing to do with the product on the floor. This year's team plays at a faster tempo than any Ohio team since KenPom has been recording the stat, by a wide margin. We've scored 80+ points in five of our last six games

The announced attendance at the Maryland game was 12K but there was about half of that (if that). Interest in college basketball is way down across the nation and it's been dropping for a few years. You hit the nail on the head when you said that no one is saying you got to see this Carter kid but that's a problem with the students not with Carter. He's a must see player as much as anyone. I see this as a problem with the University and student leadership. When the Ozone started and was so electric we were in the middle of an 11 year tournament drought and the team was so "must see" that we fired our coach. Yet the students packed the Ozone. We need a solid group of students to take up the mantle and get everyone fired up because they are missing a fun product whether you recognize it or not.

shabamon
General User

Member Since: 11/17/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,137

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 9:50:59 PM

I'm not criticizing any one player. If you give me the choice between Jason Carter and Devaughn Washington, I'm taking Jason every time. But I can't blame people for hoping to see this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5HXTGg-bU

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxkAlBYub0A

when they come to a Division 1 college basketball game. Pace is good, so are points, but people want to see something amazing too.

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,050

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 11:58:03 PM

I support Van on this. Crisp execution, winning, and running a clean program are what is "amazing" to me. I don't need a dunkathon to gain or keep my attention.

Last Edited: 12/12/2017 5:35:15 AM by Jeff McKinney

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,050

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 12:26:41 AM

From what I've seen, mid major basketball attendance is horrible. Empty arenas. And this didn't happen gradually, it's like the bottom fell out within a three year period.

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,050

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 12:53:21 AM

I agree that the challenge is to get the casual fan in the arena. We can do a lot better job of that at Ohio than we're doing now.

Many institutions are suffering attendance drops. I think a major reason for this is Internet and smart phones . People can get from these personal devices what they used to have to go to events or meetings to get. People carve out what they want. Very hard to get people to commit to any regular attendance at anything. Maybe BGSU wasn't silly to build a 4800 seat gym.

GoCats105
General User

Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,929

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 8:03:19 AM

OUVan wrote:

shabamon wrote:

OUVan wrote:

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

Agreed. And to answer the original question, Saul Ball is fun to watch. This goes way beyond the product on the floor.

The students need another Dan Lowe...even though that is an impossible task.

Andrew Ruck
General User

Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,708

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 8:44:25 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

From what I've seen, mid major basketball attendance is horrible. Empty arenas. And this didn't happen gradually, it's like the bottom fell out within a three year period.

Yes exactly, the sharp cliff dive is amazing and alarming.

I appreciate everyone's analysis on playing style, coach personality, dunks, competitiveness, etc. but I just do not buy any of it. Students aren't sitting at home wishing the Bobcats played a different style...they're sitting at home just not caring at all. Every situation you can present has an era we can match it with that had good student involvement, as OUV laid out.

I wish I could give a deeper analysis but my conclusion is simply it is what it is, and it is sad.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Mike Johnson
General User

Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,707

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 9:49:15 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

From what I've seen, mid major basketball attendance is horrible. Empty arenas. And this didn't happen gradually, it's like the bottom fell out within a three year period.

I wonder how attendance at high school basketball games is holding up?

As to high school football, I was surprised by attendance at the state Div. IV semi-final between Steubenville and Shelby. Held in Akron or a two-hour drive from either community. As you would imagine from the two schools being in Div. IV, the towns are small. Yet knowing that Infocision capacity is about 30,000, attendance that night was a good 8,000 - or more than I've yet seen at an OU at Akron game.

If high school basketball games aren't streamed, perhaps that is helping attendance.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

GoCats105
General User

Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,929

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:10:52 AM

I'd be curious to see the numbers of eyeballs on the streaming service for home games, and if it's trending upward.

spongeBOB CATpants
General User

Member Since: 8/16/2016
Post Count: 948

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:16:58 AM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I still think lack of NCAA appearances is a bigger factor than activities. Video Games and Bars existed 6 years ago, yet the O Zone was mhch bigger then.

I keep hearing that video games existed during times when the ozone was strong but I don't think they were of the same capacity. The technology that allows kids to connect online and play with anybody they want adds to it. Also the rise of eSports (especially since we now have teams that represent universities) has given kids yet another reason to sit in front of the screen and forgo walking in the cold weather to the convo.

DelBobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,135

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:21:06 AM

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I still think lack of NCAA appearances is a bigger factor than activities. Video Games and Bars existed 6 years ago, yet the O Zone was mhch bigger then.

Again, this just doesn't ring true. I was at OU from 2006-2010. You could connect to others online during that time. That's not new. Maybe the experience is more streamlined nowadays but it is not drastically different. Also eSports are still a very niche thing. Very few college students are interested, and the ones that are were not interested in actual sports anyway. Plus, you can just go to Athens and see for yourself that the streets are as bustling as ever. The bars are packed and students are out and about. They're not holed up in their dorms playing video games.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

greencat
General User

Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,069

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:21:45 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

These damn kids today.....

Anyway, we are not alone:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memp... /

Also, Duke is able to sell undergrad tickets to grad students and others. Duke! Earlier in the year Kentucky had fairly empty student sections.

Guess I just gotta get used to it....

U of Memphis is not a good example. They play off campus in the downtown arena that the Grizz play in. However their football team that also plays off campus drew really well ever since they started winning like crazy.

This would be a good time to schedule them for a home & home in basketball while they are rebuilding, before they get good again. They used to be able to get all those good inner-city kids to stay home and play for the Tigers, but now the whole world recruits them. Cal State-Bakersfield won 49 games the last two seasons with a bunch of west TN, north Mississippi guys that Ole Miss, Arkansas, etc didn't offer. Saul and them need to pay Memphis and Atlanta a few visits during h.s. district tournament time.

OU_Country
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:23:14 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

I'd be curious to see the numbers of eyeballs on the streaming service for home games, and if it's trending upward.

If they're tracking it, I added to both in person attendance, and watching on the Watch ESPN app on Sunday. I had to tune in to see those uncalled charging fouls.

OU_Country
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:47:45 AM

DelBobcat wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I still think lack of NCAA appearances is a bigger factor than activities. Video Games and Bars existed 6 years ago, yet the O Zone was mhch bigger then.

An example of your last thought on Sunday: we saw dozens in two different bars we passed watching the Browns (the BROWNS!) and sitting at the bar.

NFL Sunday - inexplicably to me - is a greater draw for some. Finals week is an issue for this past game for some because they had early week exams. Obviously we understand that, even though I'd go to a game, and then go back to studying. Not everyone cares enough to do so.

I stand by what I said earlier in the thread. If I'm running the show for games in The Convo, I'm engaging students all day, every day starting the first day of class in the spring semester to understand if anyone even knows there are games going on, why no one comes, and what might make them consider coming. If I were a betting man, I'd be willing to be that more than 60% of students on campus don't even know there are games going on the day of the game.

The Ozone is something that should be promoted when freshmen first come to campus, in a similar way that Greek life promotes itself. It could be run in concert by Ohio Athletics, The Sports Admin program, and the students themselves. There could be small incentives given for going to every game, or nearly every game. And there are other ideas this group could brain storm. They could also develop an "Old Zone", Ozone society for grads, and get that group and some 110 Alumni a seating area closer to the floor for the younger or rowdier alumni. There are tons of things they could do, IF anyone wanted to do so, and many of them only have the cost of time and thought.

Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,025

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:50:09 AM

I've mentioned this for years both on here and to the powers that be and it's been posted again in this thread, but there is exactly zero excitement in going to a game. By that I mean, when I leave my home on the east side to make the 7 minute drive to the Convo and come down the exit ramp toward the roundabout and look over at the Convo, the only reason I know there is a game is because I have a ticket in my hand. It's dark, there are no banners, nothing. That 4 x 8 foot sign hanging between two poles facing southeast at the corner announcing "basketball game tonight" just isn't getting it. When you do get to the Convo and walk in the front door, again, no excitement. When they redid the lobby and the hall of fame, the consulting firm missed the target. No music, no banners, nothing. I could go on and on but for those who've been to a game lately, you know exactly what I mean.

Is that in itself going to get people to come to the games? Absolutely not but how many of us have walked into a restaurant or bar for the first time and said to ourseleves, "this place is happening?"

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,050

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 10:58:17 AM

I have to agree that the dropoff in attendance isn't due to the product on the court, as much as I respect DA, Shaboman, etc.

Interestingly, student attendance at football games appeared pretty good this year.

For a tale on student non attendance, ask Russ and Rob what they saw at UMass this year. Big time pregame student tailgate with literally thousands in attendance, followed by a massive herd heading home with only a handful , maybe a few hundred, actually attending the game.

OU_Country
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:02:54 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

I agree 100%, and know exactly what you mean. For the Iona game a couple weeks ago, the damn building was dark on the outside, and the atmosphere going in was very much "meh".

Conversely, when I went to Hinkle Fieldhouse for the first time (and only time so far), the minute you walked in - music, and the smell of popcorn permeated the building everywhere. It FELT and smelled like a basketball building.

In my end of season survey, I think the last two years, but I know for certain last year, I mentioned that it would REALLY benefit Ohio Basketball to send a small team of people to venues outside of their own, and outside the MAC to watch & learn about their game day experiences. Go to UD, Butler, Xavier, Cincinnati, Pitt, etc., and see what they're doing that you're not. Take away 2-3 things that are affordable to improve the excitement and feel. Green Paint, posters, better signage outside, better light outside, and music in the concourses. None of that over a couple seasons would cost much. Firing up the popcorn machines and keeping them going all game is cheap, and makes the place smell good, and smell like basketball (in my opinion).

It's not that hard, and it's what we all do in daily life. I look and see ideas from buddies, family and co-workers about how I could be doing things on the job, or around the house, or in relationships better.

rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,508

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:04:06 AM

As I've said,I was out at O.U. for the Alabama A&M game.

As others have said,I can't believe the only thing mentioning the game was the little banner by the Convo.
The didn't even change it for the women's game the next day.

My wife and I also couldn't get over how dark the Convo looks at night.

My suggestions:
1.Put up a dual face electronic sign facing both directions of Richland Avenue.
Use the same kind of sign we use for digital billboards.
They change images change every x seconds.
That lets you "announce" a number of things.I bet you could even sell advertising.

2.Light up the Convo.
Shouldn't cost much if you use LED's.

OU_Country
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:04:52 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Like in my reply to Alan - if I'm Ohio Athletics, I'm calling the folks at UMass and asking:

"How did you do this?"
"How have you maintained the momentum?"
"Ballpark, what did it cost?"

It's not rocket science - it's asking questions.

MedinaCat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Lakewood, OH
Post Count: 740

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:23:12 AM

Apparently our obsession with hand dryers in the restrooms is ill-conceived...

"Forty percent of Generation Z said that working Wi-Fi was more important to them than working bathrooms."

https://www.inc.com/ryan-jenkins/generation-z-vs-millenni...

spongeBOB CATpants
General User

Member Since: 8/16/2016
Post Count: 948

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:26:53 AM

DelBobcat wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I still think lack of NCAA appearances is a bigger factor than activities. Video Games and Bars existed 6 years ago, yet the O Zone was mhch bigger then.

Interesting, I was there from 2011-2015. I'm also mostly referring to midweek games as opposed to a Saturday afternoon game. You're correct in saying that esports is very niche and it seems the west coast way ahead of the east so I doubt this plays much a role.

I'm just spitballing here. My point is that I believe video games and other dorm activities are taking priority over attending a game at OU. Its a combination of many factors but I think it comes down to national attention and a mediocre team on the court that lacks a polarizing player. Carter just doesn't bring the same excitement that Nature Boy or DJ or D Washington all brought. The biggest crowds I've been to between 11-15 were when the team was winning and playing meaningful basketball with explosive players that were fun watch to the average fan.

Joe McKinley
General User

Member Since: 11/15/2004
Post Count: 483

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:28:19 AM

Mike Johnson wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

From what I've seen, mid major basketball attendance is horrible. Empty arenas. And this didn't happen gradually, it's like the bottom fell out within a three year period.

Great question, Mike. I know from involvement with an Ohio Capital Conference school and having knowledge of other central Ohio high school athletics programs that attendance at football and basketball plunged several years ago. It's an economic drag on programs which is being filled with sponsorships. For example, most athletic trainers now work for health care systems, districts have uniform contracts with brands and more.

D.A.
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Georgetown, ME
Post Count: 1,176

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:30:54 AM

OU_Country wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I can answer that, and I think you may have only caught half of Jeff's point: they come to the pregame tailgate, but don't come in to the game. It drives the UMASS alumni/boosters that I know absolutely crazy.

How do they do that:

1. They provide the students free food in the tailgate area.
2. And the students can bring any adult beverages they like, very similar to CMU's setup.

It is a great party before the game, but the students then never go into the game itself, so that doesn't solve the student attendance problem.

Last Edited: 12/12/2017 11:31:37 AM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:35:18 AM

Don't know how much of a factor it is in the attendance drop, but I will agree with those who say how dark the Convo looks these days. I remember one year back when I was a graduate student we were playing a game against Loyola. I was late getting to the game because I was working at the computer center, then located in Clippinger Hall. As I left Clippinger I looked over toward the Convo. It was all lite up. You could see the glass panes in the front with light streaming out. That image is still impressed on my brain. It was a very bright and welcoming beacon in the night. Not so today!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

OU_Country
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline

RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/12/2017 11:51:26 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

That's definitely along the lines of what I *think* I remember from the late 90's. If anyone has a photo that looks like this, could they post it here?

Showing Replies:	76 - 100 of 137 Posts
Jump to Page:	< Previous 1 \| 2 \| 3 \| 4 \| 5 \| 6 Next >

View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics

There are 352 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

350 Guests
2 Registered Users:
	GraffZ06, RufusCat09

There are no other users looking at this page.