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Topic: RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Topic: RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

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Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 1:41:29 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Anybody consider these two things - no one has an obligation to attend anything and going to a game just doesn't float a lot of folks boats just like some students never attend a play, performance, or other activity that the kid next door is a star in. Not sure why we - a bunch of aging white men who enjoyed the games back in the day - worry about it. Yes, I've commented on it but it doesn't keep me up at night.

And there it is, classic. I can just see Swank in the company brainstorming meeting..."Hey guys come on, who are we to suggest our potential customers should use our product. I'm sure they have good reasons to buy from our competitors, just leave them alone. Jeez."

It is not a criticism of a student...an individual person obviously may just not be interested for endless reasons. It is a discussion about how we cannot even get 50 of 25,000 to be interested. I'd be happy with literally 1% of the student population, but we are falling short...after decades of easily achieving much better interest.

And many reasons have been laid out on how this should concern anyone who cares about bobcat hoops, because 95% of our fan base is made up of alumni who were super fans when they were students. We also enjoy a good game atmosphere, which the overwhelming majority comes from the students in college sports. We enjoy seeing our players, who we tirelessly support and care about, to be appreciated by their fellow students. And we want recruits to see they can play in front of an excited student fanbase if they come to Ohio.

It really isn't hard to figure out....

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 1:41:57 PM

shabamon wrote:

Another thing to consider: right or wrong, is Saul ball really all that exciting for a casual basketball viewer to watch? I mean, it's efficient in the way that the Spurs or the Grizzlies of recent years is efficient. But are there any can't-miss players? There's no DJ Cooper or Maurice Ndour or even a Devaughn Washington that does flashy things. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather win than be flashy (both would be great), but truth be told, I'd like to see amazing athleticism every once in a while too.

I actually made that comment in another thread. It's possible, I guess?

Andrew Ruck
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 1:42:56 PM

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 1:45:03 PM

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I'll throw an observation out on that and then recuse myself from the thread.

You know how people say "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" - ? It's that way geographically with entertainment. While a city like Nashville has exploded with places to go and things to do in the last 20 years (two major league sports teams, countless trendy restaurants/bars in neighborhoods that are now "cool" you wouldn't have gone to after dark back then, way more music venues for all genres of acts, etc.etc.) - social media and video games might be the only "new" options in a town/area that is not booming. Thus "going out" somewhere might not seem so worth is.

When young recent grads from midwest college towns move to Nashville, I can assure you that they go out ALL THE TIME. They go to Titans games (even if it's mostly for the tailgate partying), they go to Preds hockey which is next to an epic five block long strip of bars. Which has a new downtown amphitheater at the other end of it. Ask any Uber/Lyft driver in Nashville about the non-stop social life of the recently arrived recent grads.

So, some of the people not wanting to leave the dorm/apartment in Athens is just part and parcel of the geography and makeup of the area. It just is what it is.

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 1:48:02 PM by greencat

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 1:47:09 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

Agreed. And to answer the original question, Saul Ball is fun to watch. This goes way beyond the product on the floor.

WishIWasAtLuckys
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 2:03:38 PM

Saul is such a damn asset. He is so personable, so compelling and very nice.

He needs to get uptown, walk the bars with the players early in evenings, go to sorority and fraternity events, meet with clubs.

I just don't think that Athletics really works it.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 2:20:14 PM

WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:

These are good points. I believe that Danny Nee did this during his tenure at OHIO, and it seemed to be successful.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

GoCats105
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 2:50:26 PM

WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:

Do we know for sure this isn't happening? Saul seems like the kind of guy that would do this. Even with the sparse crowd yesterday, he still took the team up through the student section to thank folks who did show up for coming.

RPKirtland
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Location: San Jose, CA
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 2:55:20 PM

nvm

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 3:41:14 PM by RPKirtland

Went a little too far west, let's go SJ Earthquakes!

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 2:58:20 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:

Saul has taken the team on campus tours to the various cafeterias every year to drum up support.

100%Cat
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 3:11:28 PM

Bring back the Red Panda. I remember back when we had real halftime shows like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCm-qmsOYfE

OhioCatFan
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 3:44:30 PM

100%Cat wrote:

Bring back the Red Panda. I remember back when we had real halftime shows like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCm-qmsOYfE

Thanks for posting. I just took a look at that video. I remember when we had her at a halftime of an OHIO game. That's the most amazing performance of "acrobatism" that I think I've ever seen. It was highly entertaining. I like the combination of Chinese music and the American red, white and blue outfit. E pluribus unum!

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 3:45:02 PM by OhioCatFan

bshot44
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 3:56:09 PM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

BayCat wrote:

So why don't students care? Have entertainment options in Athens (actual, physical places to do things, not social media) increased that much so that going to games isn't a big deal?

I still think lack of NCAA appearances is a bigger factor than activities. Video Games and Bars existed 6 years ago, yet the O Zone was mhch bigger then.

It would help if this program was a perennial NCAA tournament participant. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Interest level has dipped .... for a variety of reasons ... but I think if Ohio was touting a run of six straight NCAA tournaments or something, you might have more buzz around the program.

As it is ... they are one of about 300 also-rans in NCAA D-I basketball .... which is hard for a student to get amped about, even if it his/her school.

I know that's totally lame ... and wasn't the way it was when we were in school.

But I think that's partially true now. Coming out to support a "boring" 20-10 basketball program that plays in the CBI or CIT each year isn't sexy enough to draw support from your student body in 2017.

Chicken George
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 4:28:27 PM

shabamon wrote:

I really think you hit a portion of how I feel, on the head. SP seems like a great guy, likes Athens, and someone you want to see succeed. Nothing not to not like. But I almost feel there could potentially be a direct correlation to "Saul Ball," ticket sales/attendance decline, Ozone attendance decline and in my opinion, kind of overall lack of interest all of a sudden. I don't think it's not something a little winning/excitement won't cure, but I've sensed it for a little while.
Could be that he's only like 10-11 games over .500? Could be that we "may" enter year 5 of his contract with 0 Regular Season Championships, 0 MAC Final appearances and obviously that means 0 NCAA Tournament games and 0 wins. This feels like light years away from 2012 and it's actually only like 5-6 years ago. And yes, to your point--we seem to have always had "that marque guy" and unless JC becomes that, we don't. We've always had a Trent, Jeter, Jamerson, Hunter, Campbell, Tillman, Cooper--someone you'd invite a friend to the game to and they'd want to come see that guy they've been hearing about. When I see recruits announced and pull up their video footage, if much exists, I know pretty quickly a human highlight film isn't who we're getting but instead probably another stretch 4/5. I'm hoping that once MAC Action starts this changes, but if not, there may be more too it? But no doubt, I see a lack of attendance all around and sense a lack of energy and fan apathy.

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 4:44:08 PM by Chicken George

Alan Swank
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 4:39:26 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

I disagree. I think he's spot on. We don't have any "characters" and haven't for some time. By characters I mean guys like Flomo and Geno, Devin Davis or Wally. There's no Spindle Graves or Snoopy Graham. By no means - let me repeat, by no means is that a criticism of any of our past or present players or coaches. It's just more fun to watch when there is a "character" out there. Right now Mike Laster is the closest thing that we have to that.

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 4:49:08 PM by Alan Swank

D.A.
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 4:40:01 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

I'm not so sure, I actually think Shabs may have hit one of the potential reasons on the head. I am a casual hoops fan who doesn't fully understand the deep X's/O's of modern hoops, and granted, I am far more engaged in OHIO ICA than the average student, and I openly admit that Saulball isn't a compelling product for me. You can't tell me that out of a student body of 20+k students on campus, you don't have a volume of enough former high school men and women that played hoops, were on spirit squads or were regular supporters of their high school teams, not to mention professional fans (in Lebron James/Cavs country) who wouldn't want to attend a compelling product in person with a premier seat location like the bleachers without having to pay for a ticket at the door.

I have had detailed conversations with knowledgeable hoops posters on this board, and members of the athletic department, and I still am yet to have someone explain to me why what turns me off about our present state of the program is simply due to me being a novice/don't know better/should just accept that the game is too erudite for me. And this is coming from a guy who planned a week long trip around the Charleston Classic.

We are in year four of the new program, and I like Saul A LOT as a person. He is a great father with a great family, they love Athens and OHIO, and his story during the NDSU run was certainly "one shining moment". However, for a head coach who is paid at the top of MAC, a program that outspends all of its MAC peers in Hoops budget and clearly has the best facility in the Conference, I simply no longer find OHIO hoops a must watch. Since the Iona game, which I found to be a pretty lame last 30 minutes, I haven't caught any of the games on live streaming, and I'm not sure if I'll be back in that frame of mind the remainder of the season except when it conveniently fits my schedule.

To win in the Saul system, you better be able to outwork/communicate the opponent for 40 minutes, be significantly more successful in shooting percentage from the floor and line than your opponents, highly value every offensive possession and limit opponent's offensive second chances. However, as was evidenced in the first halves against ISU and Dayton, this team is often completely unfocused, does not communicate well with one another and is completely hot and cold in shooting. And if as a program you plan not to "employ" bulk and athleticism in the roster in lieu of finesse players that will outwork the competition, and perform as we do for considerable stretches, we are going to have some nights where we are completely out to lunch, get obliterated on the boards (particularly in allowing offensive rebounds), shoot sub 45%/80% and get beaten by teams that we wouldn't have previously, often in our own house.

There used to be a time when we were a very tough out in our own house, and that hasn't been the case the last couple of years. I simply just won't make the product "must watch live", where I used to never miss a webcast. I don't want us to fail by any means, I hope this system can work eventually, but in year four, with almost exclusively "his" own roster, I really hoped we would be much farther along now than we are, especially considering our investment versus our peers.

Conversely, if I were a donor or a student of UB, and I knew I would be watching the athleticism of the Bulls night in, night out, I would be tuned in or attending live every night, because those guys can jump out of the gym and they play a very aggressive, physical style, which I find very entertaining.

And I'll play this back to our recent past, where OHIO hoops was "must see live" for me. During Groce's era, that guy was on the razor's edge every night. There were nights early in his regime when we got run out of our own gym, but that guy was freaking passionate every night, and you could always rely on the entertainment of foot stomps, skier face, table punches...that guy left it on the floor every night. I found that exponentially more compelling than Saul's style, which is more moderated and nuanced. Again, I like Saul a lot, very nice guy and funny/humble, but stylistically, sometimes he is just too laissez faire to get me sucked into his program.

Now if Saul were able to build a team to succeed in the system he is employing, and the team members are bringing the same intensity that the Bo Ryan era Wisconsin teams did, who REALLY outworked their opponents for 40 minutes and shot the rock the way many of those teams did, I'd be back in, night in, night out. I like many of our players, I just am not seeing a 10 deep bench that is going to be able to deliver against the promise of this style that can beat teams that are built like the Buffalo's of this conference, not to mention other mid major peers. We are top third percentile in D1 budget, but I'm not feeling this core as being able to deliver to our level of spend.

So despite how "novice" the student body is on hoops, if the games are not an event where we have a high probability of protecting our home floor, I wouldn't undersell Shabamon's premise that people aren't finding the product compelling.

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 4:56:37 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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shabamon
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 4:41:03 PM

OUVan wrote:

Andrew Ruck wrote:

shabamon wrote:

You're going way too deep. The students that aren't going have absolutely no idea the type of basketball we play.

Agreed. And to answer the original question, Saul Ball is fun to watch. This goes way beyond the product on the floor.

It's fun to watch if you're a basketball purist, but we're talking about drawing in the casual fan. Would I rather be a fan of the Spurs or the Thunder? Spurs, because they're always at the top of the standings and they win championships. Who would I rather watch on a weeknight for entertainment? Thunder, despite the fact that they're a game under .500 currently.

I read an article, maybe in Sports Illustrated, about the Cavaliers before Lebron was drafted and one thing that resonated that while Andre Miller and Zydrunas Ilgauskas were very good players back then, no one was packing the arena to see them. Look, Jason Carter is a very good player. I think he will win POTY in the MAC at least once, but I don't think anyone is going to say to their buddy "Hey, you gotta check out this Carter kid."

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 4:47:48 PM by shabamon

Ohio69
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 5:00:47 PM

These damn kids today.....

Anyway, we are not alone:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memp... /

Also, Duke is able to sell undergrad tickets to grad students and others. Duke! Earlier in the year Kentucky had fairly empty student sections.

Guess I just gotta get used to it....

Last Edited: 12/11/2017 5:02:34 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Chicken George
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 5:02:22 PM

Is that normal for a coach to have only year left on his contract with no contact extension (that we know about/maybe being worked on behind the scenes)? JS waiting this year out before committing to more years? I'd assume that makes recruiting difficult if that's the case.

Campus Flow
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 5:44:40 PM

What about the death of the print addition of The Post? Could that explain the student attendance drop?

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

RPKirtland
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 5:48:17 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

What about the death of the print addition of The Post? Could that explain the student attendance drop?

wut

Went a little too far west, let's go SJ Earthquakes!

cbus cat fan
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 7:17:46 PM

We all know that far too many students aren't as interested in live sports as many of us once were. However, I think we have to study another component. How many of our current Bobcat students came from high schools were there was a lively student body present for basketball games?

Years ago when coming home from work and listening to the Fan sports show in Columbus (when Kirk Herbstreit was still an afternoon host.) Believe it not, he gave our Bobcat fans some love. Herbstreit went on to chide the lackluster Buckeye student body by telling them to go to Dayton and watch the lively fans at Dayton's Catholic high schools, Chaminade-Julienne, Alter and Carrol. He also mentioned his alma mater the big suburban public school south of Dayton, Centerville.

I am not sure if our demographics have changed much since I was a student in the 80s, but my guess is that fewer high schools have rabid cheering sections as they once did. Unless you are a big time programs in the national spotlight, a lot of bandwagon fans just don't show up, because in their mind they have better things to do. Even in the 80s when the Crazy Cats were on a roll, I can remember coming back from the Convo to celebrate in one of our many festive watering holes only to find some students perched in a booth, bar stool or some standing location asking how they game went because they were too busy watching North Carolina or Duke. Even in those days it could have better but now because of increased competition from many sectors, it is far worse.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 7:22:07 PM

Chicken George wrote:

Hmm . . . never thought of this before, but there is a conspiracy theory here waiting to be voiced . . . and it has nothing to do with the Jesuits, as far as I know: JS will fire Saul at the end of year and hire JG away from Akron. [For those that don't recognize it, the above is laced with sarcasm, or at least I think it's sarcasm.]

Campus Flow
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 7:23:14 PM

RPKirtland wrote:

Uncle Wes wrote:

What about the death of the print addition of The Post? Could that explain the student attendance drop?

wut

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/student-paper-to-r...

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

bobcat2nc
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RE: Rest in Peace Ozone, 2001 - 2017

Posted: 12/11/2017 8:21:41 PM

I do agree with Alan�s take on the point of who are we to expect today�s students to enjoy what we of a certain age enjoy. My observation is based on my expectations only. I, myself, am not a rah rah basketball watcher but I did enjoy watching the Ozone and being among the excitement generated by the game and not forced.

Somewhat ironically, I find myself leaving the Convo still Hungry for more these days.

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