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Topic:  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches

Topic:  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 11/3/2017 10:57:43 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an article in today's The Record by Ben Nuckols of the Associated Press on this.
The article says that this month the NCAA has formed a committee headed by Condoleeza Rice to come up with recommendations for next season.

One thing that stuck out was that,one item under consideration was that,in exchange for limited antitrust considerations,the NCAA would allow some Federal oversight.



Interesting. Since the NCAA is a child of the Federal government, this doesn't strike me as too outrageous of an idea.


I hardly call T. Roosevelt asking for reforms in the sport of football safety, as the NCAA becoming a "child of the Federal government".

That there were bills in Congress at the time to make football illegal, certainly makes TR's efforts part of a larger effort. Here's a headline from the NYT at that time:
FOOTBALL IN 1909 CAUSED 26 DEATHS; Highest Total in Many Years and Almost Double That of 1908 and 1907. 70 MORE SERIOUSLY HURT Chicago Tribune's Figures Show That Majority Killed Were College Players Trained by Expert Coaches.
This was a national political issue at the time that was far more than TR's meeting with college football officials, though that was crucial in saving the sport.


Still not a "child of the federal government".

Without the pressure in Congress and TR's effort there would have been no NCAA. Therefore, to my mind, that makes the NCAA a child of the Federal government. They were responsible for its formation. TR actually had said publicly that he was going to recommend the abolishment of football, but then changed his mind and called a meeting of college football leaders in the White House.
Take a look at this article:
http://www.history.com/news/how-teddy-roosevelt-saved-foo...
Here are the two ending paragraphs: Following the [1905] season, Stanford and California switched to rugby while Columbia, Northwestern and Duke dropped football. Harvard president Charles Eliot, who considered football “more brutalizing than prizefighting, cockfighting or bullfighting,” warned that Harvard could be next, a move that would be a crushing blow to the college game and the Harvard alum in the Oval Office. Roosevelt wrote in a letter to a friend that he would not let Eliot “emasculate football,” and that he hoped to “minimize the danger” without football having to be played “on too ladylike a basis.” Roosevelt again used his bully pulpit. He urged the Harvard coach and other leading football authorities to push for radical rule changes, and he invited other school leaders to the White House in the offseason. An intercollegiate conference, which would become the forerunner of the NCAA, approved radical rule changes for the 1906 season. They legalized the forward pass, abolished the dangerous mass formations, created a neutral zone between offense and defense and doubled the first-down distance to 10 yards, to be gained in three downs. The rule changes didn’t eliminate football’s dangers, but fatalities declined—to 11 per year in both 1906 and 1907—while injuries fell sharply. A spike in fatalities in 1909 led to another round of reforms that further eased restrictions on the forward pass and formed the foundation of the modern sport.
So, it seems clear that without the pressure from Congress and the intervention of TR there would have been no national collegiate athletic association formed at that time. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to say that the NCAA was a child of the Federal government. I'm not playing semantics. It's a reasonable way to summarize the actual facts of what happened. You are welcome to describe another way, if you prefer, but my statement is not an inaccurate way to describe the creation of the forerunner of the NCAA, without which there wouldn't have been an NCAA.


Sorry, absent of legislation that created the organization, or an executive order to that extent, saying the NCAA is a child of the Federal Government is nothing but personal opinion. The TVA, WPA, ARC are a "child of the federal government", the NCAA is not.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 11/4/2017 12:07:41 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an article in today's The Record by Ben Nuckols of the Associated Press on this.
The article says that this month the NCAA has formed a committee headed by Condoleeza Rice to come up with recommendations for next season.

One thing that stuck out was that,one item under consideration was that,in exchange for limited antitrust considerations,the NCAA would allow some Federal oversight.



Interesting. Since the NCAA is a child of the Federal government, this doesn't strike me as too outrageous of an idea.


I hardly call T. Roosevelt asking for reforms in the sport of football safety, as the NCAA becoming a "child of the Federal government".

That there were bills in Congress at the time to make football illegal, certainly makes TR's efforts part of a larger effort. Here's a headline from the NYT at that time:
FOOTBALL IN 1909 CAUSED 26 DEATHS; Highest Total in Many Years and Almost Double That of 1908 and 1907. 70 MORE SERIOUSLY HURT Chicago Tribune's Figures Show That Majority Killed Were College Players Trained by Expert Coaches.
This was a national political issue at the time that was far more than TR's meeting with college football officials, though that was crucial in saving the sport.


Still not a "child of the federal government".

Without the pressure in Congress and TR's effort there would have been no NCAA. Therefore, to my mind, that makes the NCAA a child of the Federal government. They were responsible for its formation. TR actually had said publicly that he was going to recommend the abolishment of football, but then changed his mind and called a meeting of college football leaders in the White House.
Take a look at this article:
http://www.history.com/news/how-teddy-roosevelt-saved-foo...
Here are the two ending paragraphs: Following the [1905] season, Stanford and California switched to rugby while Columbia, Northwestern and Duke dropped football. Harvard president Charles Eliot, who considered football “more brutalizing than prizefighting, cockfighting or bullfighting,” warned that Harvard could be next, a move that would be a crushing blow to the college game and the Harvard alum in the Oval Office. Roosevelt wrote in a letter to a friend that he would not let Eliot “emasculate football,” and that he hoped to “minimize the danger” without football having to be played “on too ladylike a basis.” Roosevelt again used his bully pulpit. He urged the Harvard coach and other leading football authorities to push for radical rule changes, and he invited other school leaders to the White House in the offseason. An intercollegiate conference, which would become the forerunner of the NCAA, approved radical rule changes for the 1906 season. They legalized the forward pass, abolished the dangerous mass formations, created a neutral zone between offense and defense and doubled the first-down distance to 10 yards, to be gained in three downs. The rule changes didn’t eliminate football’s dangers, but fatalities declined—to 11 per year in both 1906 and 1907—while injuries fell sharply. A spike in fatalities in 1909 led to another round of reforms that further eased restrictions on the forward pass and formed the foundation of the modern sport.
So, it seems clear that without the pressure from Congress and the intervention of TR there would have been no national collegiate athletic association formed at that time. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to say that the NCAA was a child of the Federal government. I'm not playing semantics. It's a reasonable way to summarize the actual facts of what happened. You are welcome to describe another way, if you prefer, but my statement is not an inaccurate way to describe the creation of the forerunner of the NCAA, without which there wouldn't have been an NCAA.


Sorry, absent of legislation that created the organization, or an executive order to that extent, saying the NCAA is a child of the Federal Government is nothing but personal opinion. The TVA, WPA, ARC are a "child of the federal government", the NCAA is not.

That's your operational definition. It's not a universal truth. Neither is my definition.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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100%Cat
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Member Since: 1/17/2013
Post Count: 2,491

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 11/9/2017 8:04:36 AM 
TOS to Auburn...soon.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/11/08/report-... /
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OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 11/9/2017 10:44:53 AM 
100%Cat wrote:
TOS to Auburn...soon.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/11/08/report-... /


Stay classy, Bruce Pearl.
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bobcatsquared
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,042

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 3/10/2022 11:03:13 AM 
Anyone else noticed how the top of the rankings this year has included most of these schools, years after the FBI investigation first started? Kansas St. coach Weber has.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/33468480

Last Edited: 3/10/2022 11:05:17 AM by bobcatsquared
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 3/10/2022 11:21:52 AM 
With the NIL and several new state laws -- along with the Supreme Court's shot across the NCAA's bow -- it's funny to look back at this scandal 5 years later.

There's now nothing stopping Adidas from just paying these players directly. Where there's not a market, there'll be a black market. Seems like opening the market was an obvious choice.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 3/11/2022 9:04:26 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
With the NIL and several new state laws -- along with the Supreme Court's shot across the NCAA's bow -- it's funny to look back at this scandal 5 years later.

There's now nothing stopping Adidas from just paying these players directly. Where there's not a market, there'll be a black market. Seems like opening the market was an obvious choice.


People want to blast the NCAA and state HS Associations, but what they often do not realize is that state and federal laws often times dictate what policies. Take transfer rules in Ohio, those are all dictated by state law, school choice. In the NCAA NIL laws and the courts have brought us the transfer portal and the wild wild west in regards to money from companies. Looking back at this in 5 more years will be even more interesting.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 3/11/2022 11:31:13 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
In the NCAA NIL laws and the courts have brought us the transfer portal and the wild wild west in regards to money from companies. Looking back at this in 5 more years will be even more interesting.


Interesting that in a thread about illegal bribes paid to players 5 years ago you describe legal transactions between companies and players as the "wild west." Pretty sure "wild west" is an expression that denotes lawlessness. Seems like it better fits, you know, the bribes under the NCAA's preferred structure. Nobody is breaking the law now. Isn't that good?

As for the transfer portal, I get why people worry about it. What I don't get is how people justify the idea that a person in the United States shouldn't get to choose where they attend school and play basketball, and that restrictions be placed on that. Employers can't do that, by and large. So why is it applicable to non-employees?
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,485

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: FBI Arrests "Several" Assistant Coaches
   Posted: 3/11/2022 9:31:02 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
In the NCAA NIL laws and the courts have brought us the transfer portal and the wild wild west in regards to money from companies. Looking back at this in 5 more years will be even more interesting.


Interesting that in a thread about illegal bribes paid to players 5 years ago you describe legal transactions between companies and players as the "wild west." Pretty sure "wild west" is an expression that denotes lawlessness. Seems like it better fits, you know, the bribes under the NCAA's preferred structure. Nobody is breaking the law now. Isn't that good?

As for the transfer portal, I get why people worry about it. What I don't get is how people justify the idea that a person in the United States shouldn't get to choose where they attend school and play basketball, and that restrictions be placed on that. Employers can't do that, by and large. So why is it applicable to non-employees?


How about no holds barred! That work better for you. Coaches are having to spend as much time recruiting their current roster as they do new players. And anything can pretty much go now. Can’t pay for performance but you can pay whatever you want otherwise.
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