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Topic:  RE: As Good as it Gets

Topic:  RE: As Good as it Gets
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bobcatsquared
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/7/2016 7:09:31 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Do you know BA makes it easy to block PMs from a specified poster? I've only had to activate that feature once. My life has been saner since. I highly recommend this feature. The First Amendment not only gives you the right to speak freely, it gives the listener the right to not listen. Freedom is a two-way street!


So, that's why OCF hasn't been responding to my PMs.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/7/2016 8:45:23 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
L.C. So, is this kind of thread hijack (which I don't object to) okay because it doesn't question our staff's achievements?

No, this is exactly the kind of thread where it belongs. The problem is where it spreads into threads not related to that. Why does it spread there? Because self indulgent people think that those not interested in that discussion should be forced to read it anyway, and if they won't click on the threads containing such discussion, the only way to force them to read it is to take it to every other thread.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/7/2016 9:04:18 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Do you know BA makes it easy to block PMs from a specified poster? I've only had to activate that feature once. My life has been saner since. I highly recommend this feature. The First Amendment not only gives you the right to speak freely, it gives the listener the right to not listen. Freedom is a two-way street!


So, that's why OCF hasn't been responding to my PMs.


Sorry. Guess again! It's not you.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bitchy Incognito
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 12:00:40 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
L.C. summed it up nicely. Ohio, playing a ranked Western team that was throttling teams by about 27 points per game, was "within 37 yards of a MACC."

That is a nice place from which to start 2017.


Except that the team will lose half its starters to graduation.

It's funny how in the past couple of seasons before this one, the players were all in on the talking point of, "Winning the MAC Championship is the only goal that matters." This year, they didn't say that. Now, when some of us posters agree with that former team talking point, we're douches or people not to be taken seriously.

One of the big reasons they couldn't win the MACC has to be the cornerback position. It has to be on Solich & Co. that last year's top CBs were all seniors (Wells, Bass and Layton). That made it a huge problem when Langston Provitt left the team. It's a very good defense with one exploitable weakness.

You have the Rationalizer-in-Chief, L.C., saying many of our complaints are meaningless. Well, the grass is always greener at L.C.'s house. Perhaps his Pollyanna act is meaningless. You know, if you've never been a writer...

Solich is a coach who will always want to run the ball. I'm OK with that, but in the MACC they could only muster 37 rushing yards for a 1.7 yards per carry average. What's the identity of this team when it counts in year twelve?

Quarterback platoons don't work. Maybe in Madden they do, but not on actual teams. Yet that's what we've gotten for the past few seasons.

Someone on this board wrote that they played smart in order to almost come back against WMU. OK, but three very costly turnovers were not.

People have also written that Solich runs a clean program. He does not. Ample evidence abounds for those who care to check. And when people consistently post that players might administer a beatdown to people who are too critical, what does that tell you?

If you want to know what average football fans in Athens say about the team, it goes something like this: "Why would I go to a late November game and freeze my ass off when there are no touchdowns?" or "I can't believe they lost to Texas State." Personally, I don't mind 9-3 games. I was there and had fun. I'm just telling you what people generally say.

The schedule is pathetic. It looks like it's going to improve, and that's great. For now, though, we are essentially Old Dominion.



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doubledribble
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 8:32:17 AM 
Bitchy, you are not accurately representing the "average fan" in Athens with the so called comments you list. You are hanging around with the non football crowd for sure. You need to join our tailgates, or visit our game parties up around the tower club, or head to an away game with us. Leaving a few days early for Mobile to enjoy the R.T.J. Golf Trail, and then head for the beach, then off to Daphne Street for great seafood or BBQ! You are hanging with the wrong crowd!
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 9:21:44 AM 
Ya know, just because he's not average doesn't mean he has a problem here. It's just he realizes what our issues are. Some of us want to strive for what Sports Illustrated talked about of what we could be and yet here we are being on the same level we've been for the last 8 years.

And yes, going to the tailgates and all that are not going to change opinions. In fact, few tailgates we've had these same discussions about what needs to change and what doesn't. So for someone to say we need to get on the coom-bai-ya train makes it sound like you're telling me to be a Russian and think that all is good in the land of Rufus when in reality our engine has been stuck in neutral for the last 8 years. So for him to vent his frustrations, let him have them, because I have my frustrations as well with the program and it's current state.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 11:26:11 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Ya know, just because he's not average doesn't mean he has a problem here. It's just he realizes what our issues are. Some of us want to strive for what Sports Illustrated talked about of what we could be and yet here we are being on the same level we've been for the last 8 years.

And yes, going to the tailgates and all that are not going to change opinions. In fact, few tailgates we've had these same discussions about what needs to change and what doesn't. So for someone to say we need to get on the coom-bai-ya train makes it sound like you're telling me to be a Russian and think that all is good in the land of Rufus when in reality our engine has been stuck in neutral for the last 8 years. So for him to vent his frustrations, let him have them, because I have my frustrations as well with the program and it's current state.


+1 Programs have to adapt and overcome, they cannot remain the same, epecially when they are not winning championships. FS needs to look at improving the offense and the defense. His job is not to make us respectable. He did a great job this year, he stepped on some toes, he ruffled some feathers.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 1:44:21 PM 
Bitchy Incognito wrote:
Except that the team will lose half its starters to graduation. ...

BI, they do lose some starters this year, but the team should on the whole be as good or better next year. The defensive line will probably not be as good, but there is excellent depth there, so it will still be good. Meanwhile, other areas, such as the secondary, will improve.

I also agree with you that cornerback was a glaring weakness this year. I don't see how the coaches could have predicted that Provitt would quit the team, and then Stites and Williams would be lost for the season. They made do with what they had, and nearly won the MAC anyway against an outstanding WMU team. On the whole, I think it was a very good season, with some bad, and some good.

Bitchy Incognito wrote:
...You have the Rationalizer-in-Chief, L.C., saying many of our complaints are meaningless. Well, the grass is always greener at L.C.'s house. Perhaps his Pollyanna act is meaningless. You know, if you've never been a writer...

I don't deny that I'm an optimist, and in fact I'm proud of it. I have never said that your complaints are wrong or meaningless. My only complaint is finding the same complaints in every single thread. I have no problem with threads dedicated to that topic, many threads, are fine, but I don't expect to find it in threads on unrelated topics. This thread is a good example of a good place for it.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 3:33:31 PM 
I just don't see how overall the team gets better when:

A) Ohio loses its top pass rusher...EVER.

B) Ohio loses two other solid Senior defensive linemen.

C) Ohio loses a run stuffing Senior LB.

D) Ohio loses its best receiver.

E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB.

F) The already mentioned corner/secondary issues, which hopefully should be much better next year. They can't get worse than this year.

I appreciate the optimism LC, but these guys Ohio is losing did a lot this past year. You don't just get better when you lose a guy like Basham, especially.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 3:42:28 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Ya know, just because he's not average doesn't mean he has a problem here. It's just he realizes what our issues are. Some of us want to strive for what Sports Illustrated talked about of what we could be and yet here we are being on the same level we've been for the last 8 years.

And yes, going to the tailgates and all that are not going to change opinions. In fact, few tailgates we've had these same discussions about what needs to change and what doesn't. So for someone to say we need to get on the coom-bai-ya train makes it sound like you're telling me to be a Russian and think that all is good in the land of Rufus when in reality our engine has been stuck in neutral for the last 8 years. So for him to vent his frustrations, let him have them, because I have my frustrations as well with the program and it's current state.


Yup.

Come to my tailgate. Hang around my friends. We share the view that this program is "stuck in neutral" and we're tired of 7-8 win seasons vs. Gardner-Webb, Eastern Illinois, Idaho, New Mexico State and the MAC East.

We enjoy the hell out of football season....at TailGreat Park and on the road (UT-both, KU, Detroit).....but the results are like Groundhog Day every year.

Book it....2016-17. 8-4.....challenge for MAC East title....maybe win it....maybe not....Play in MACC game....get beat by more talented West division foe (again)....play in average bowl game against average Sun Belt/CUSA team and lose.

2017-18....we'll wake up and do it again.

It's the Frank Solich Way.

Last Edited: 12/8/2016 3:43:08 PM by bshot44
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 4:31:20 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
I just don't see how overall the team gets better when:

A) Ohio loses its top pass rusher...EVER.

B) Ohio loses two other solid Senior defensive linemen.

C) Ohio loses a run stuffing Senior LB.

D) Ohio loses its best receiver.

E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB.

F) The already mentioned corner/secondary issues, which hopefully should be much better next year. They can't get worse than this year.

I appreciate the optimism LC, but these guys Ohio is losing did a lot this past year. You don't just get better when you lose a guy like Basham, especially.




"E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB. "

Yes and no. As good as Windham has done this year, I think summer 2016 was a larger question mark by far than it is right now. I also think that Maxwell has the potential to be pretty darn good - better than he and Windham were this year for sure. It's up to he and the coaches to make that happen from March to August.

There are other positives that return: Papi, Irons, Dorian Brown, Mangen, three regulars on the O line. WR will have plenty of inexperience after Ball and Belack. One thing I know on offense is that if I were the OC, without wearing him down, I'd be getting Papi White AT LEAST 10-12 touches a game. He's the game breaker and needs opportunities to make things happen in space more often.

On defense, two of three regulars at LB, and two safeties return. The DBs got better for the most part as the year went along. For my limited knowledge, the D line is where the biggest unknowns are at.

Not knowing much about the 2016 and 2017 recruits, I can't comment on how they might fit into the scheme of things.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 9:05:02 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
I just don't see how overall the team gets better when:
A) Ohio loses its top pass rusher...EVER.
B) Ohio loses two other solid Senior defensive linemen.
C) Ohio loses a run stuffing Senior LB.
D) Ohio loses its best receiver.
E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB.
F) The already mentioned corner/secondary issues, which hopefully should be much better next year. They can't get worse than this year.

I appreciate the optimism LC, but these guys Ohio is losing did a lot this past year. You don't just get better when you lose a guy like Basham, especially.

You accurately state the losses, though you omit a few others, like losing 2 starters on the offensive line (Cooper, Watson) and utility man Bo Hardy. There are areas where it will get better, too.
OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year
TE - With everyone back, should be better
RB - AJ will be back, Brown and Irons should be fully healthy, should be better
WR - lose Smith, but there are lots of exciting young guys, should be as good or better
QB - Maxwell and whom? This is a concern. If Maxwell remains healthy, with a year of experience he'll be better next year than he was this year. If not??? I personally am hoping they get the transfer from Michigan. He might beat out Maxwell and Keszei, or he might not, but at the least he gives you some depth
Offense - I think if the QB play is OK, it should be somewhat better than last year

DL - lose Basham, Laseak, Strobel, and Sayles. That is some heavy losses. Yet there seem to be talented backups. At DE you'll have Smart and Robbins, and at the interior positions you'll have Porter, Aloese, and Berger. Behind them you have lots of other names, like Chuckwu, Cree, Key, Mcknight, Arp, Mustin-Sherman, Miller, and Payne, among others. Ohio has been recruiting the DL exceptionally well in recent classes. I don't know who is going to emerge, but I'm not concerned. Yes, it will be a step down, but it still will be very solid.
LB - only lose Blair Brown. The other starters and backups will be there. The linebackers should be outstanding again.
DB - lose Stites, Hardy, and Toran Davis. I expect Nelson back at Safety, giving you four - Nelson, Hagan, Tupa, and Cunningham. At Corner, my guess is that the starters will be Jeff Christian and Mayne Williams, backed up by London Miller and Jalen Fox. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, however, to see one of the Motley bothers, Jaylen Morgan, or Ellis try to crash the top two strings, nor even one of the 3-star recruits for 2017 (True freshmen often play at corner). I except the defensive backs to be significantly improved.
Defense overall: I expect it to be worse up front, better in the back, and overall somewhat better than this year.
Special Teams - Everyone is back, so if anything, it should be better
Overall Team should be slightly better on offense, and slightly better on defense, and slightly better at special teams. The only mystery is QB. On the one hand Maxwell might improve dramatically from his Freshman to Sophomore year, as often happens, or Keszei or Morris might come in and take the job. On the other hand Maxwell might not improve, and/or he might get hurt, and then where are you?

I said a long time ago that 2016 and 2017 were going to years where Ohio had and excellent chance to win the MAC. I think history has proved that 2016 did indeed have an excellent shot, and I still believe 2017 is going to be a very good year, too. My initial look says 2018 will be better than 2017, and 2019 will be the peak of this cycle, with a drop in 2020, but I haven't had time to look at my model carefully.

Last Edited: 12/8/2016 9:11:36 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 9:22:18 PM 
^^^^^can someone check for this same statement made 5 years ago about this current cycle?

Just messing, but in all seriousness, we need to pick off the MAC next year or we can deem this a failed cycle. Right?
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 10:04:29 PM 
Running Back--big question marks? Brown and Irons, frequently injured, no large sample of consistent performance against the top of the schedule teams--that is not a criticism, injuries limited the sample size. How good are they compared to the best in the conference--at this point it is all speculation.

AJ out an entire season. Will he be slowed any or will he be able to improve with the off year?

WMU had two dependable work horses that stayed healthy two straight seasons. Is that luck or being a durable RB?

On the offensive side I'd like to see three jucos or 5th year to be brought in at these positions: running back, wideout and a QB (if they are going to redshirt the freshman QB's).
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 10:21:09 PM 
L.C. wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
I just don't see how overall the team gets better when:
A) Ohio loses its top pass rusher...EVER.
B) Ohio loses two other solid Senior defensive linemen.
C) Ohio loses a run stuffing Senior LB.
D) Ohio loses its best receiver.
E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB.
F) The already mentioned corner/secondary issues, which hopefully should be much better next year. They can't get worse than this year.

I appreciate the optimism LC, but these guys Ohio is losing did a lot this past year. You don't just get better when you lose a guy like Basham, especially.

You accurately state the losses, though you omit a few others, like losing 2 starters on the offensive line (Cooper, Watson) and utility man Bo Hardy. There are areas where it will get better, too.
OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year
TE - With everyone back, should be better
RB - AJ will be back, Brown and Irons should be fully healthy, should be better
WR - lose Smith, but there are lots of exciting young guys, should be as good or better
QB - Maxwell and whom? This is a concern. If Maxwell remains healthy, with a year of experience he'll be better next year than he was this year. If not??? I personally am hoping they get the transfer from Michigan. He might beat out Maxwell and Keszei, or he might not, but at the least he gives you some depth
Offense - I think if the QB play is OK, it should be somewhat better than last year

DL - lose Basham, Laseak, Strobel, and Sayles. That is some heavy losses. Yet there seem to be talented backups. At DE you'll have Smart and Robbins, and at the interior positions you'll have Porter, Aloese, and Berger. Behind them you have lots of other names, like Chuckwu, Cree, Key, Mcknight, Arp, Mustin-Sherman, Miller, and Payne, among others. Ohio has been recruiting the DL exceptionally well in recent classes. I don't know who is going to emerge, but I'm not concerned. Yes, it will be a step down, but it still will be very solid.
LB - only lose Blair Brown. The other starters and backups will be there. The linebackers should be outstanding again.
DB - lose Stites, Hardy, and Toran Davis. I expect Nelson back at Safety, giving you four - Nelson, Hagan, Tupa, and Cunningham. At Corner, my guess is that the starters will be Jeff Christian and Mayne Williams, backed up by London Miller and Jalen Fox. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, however, to see one of the Motley bothers, Jaylen Morgan, or Ellis try to crash the top two strings, nor even one of the 3-star recruits for 2017 (True freshmen often play at corner). I except the defensive backs to be significantly improved.
Defense overall: I expect it to be worse up front, better in the back, and overall somewhat better than this year.
Special Teams - Everyone is back, so if anything, it should be better
Overall Team should be slightly better on offense, and slightly better on defense, and slightly better at special teams. The only mystery is QB. On the one hand Maxwell might improve dramatically from his Freshman to Sophomore year, as often happens, or Keszei or Morris might come in and take the job. On the other hand Maxwell might not improve, and/or he might get hurt, and then where are you?

I said a long time ago that 2016 and 2017 were going to years where Ohio had and excellent chance to win the MAC. I think history has proved that 2016 did indeed have an excellent shot, and I still believe 2017 is going to be a very good year, too. My initial look says 2018 will be better than 2017, and 2019 will be the peak of this cycle, with a drop in 2020, but I haven't had time to look at my model carefully.



Excellent analysis. It will come down to two things - QB play and who we draw in the MAC west.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/8/2016 10:24:04 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
I just don't see how overall the team gets better when:
A) Ohio loses its top pass rusher...EVER.
B) Ohio loses two other solid Senior defensive linemen.
C) Ohio loses a run stuffing Senior LB.
D) Ohio loses its best receiver.
E) Ohio goes into yet another offseason with MAJOR questions at the most important position on the field: QB.
F) The already mentioned corner/secondary issues, which hopefully should be much better next year. They can't get worse than this year.

I appreciate the optimism LC, but these guys Ohio is losing did a lot this past year. You don't just get better when you lose a guy like Basham, especially.

You accurately state the losses, though you omit a few others, like losing 2 starters on the offensive line (Cooper, Watson) and utility man Bo Hardy. There are areas where it will get better, too.
OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year
TE - With everyone back, should be better
RB - AJ will be back, Brown and Irons should be fully healthy, should be better
WR - lose Smith, but there are lots of exciting young guys, should be as good or better
QB - Maxwell and whom? This is a concern. If Maxwell remains healthy, with a year of experience he'll be better next year than he was this year. If not??? I personally am hoping they get the transfer from Michigan. He might beat out Maxwell and Keszei, or he might not, but at the least he gives you some depth
Offense - I think if the QB play is OK, it should be somewhat better than last year

DL - lose Basham, Laseak, Strobel, and Sayles. That is some heavy losses. Yet there seem to be talented backups. At DE you'll have Smart and Robbins, and at the interior positions you'll have Porter, Aloese, and Berger. Behind them you have lots of other names, like Chuckwu, Cree, Key, Mcknight, Arp, Mustin-Sherman, Miller, and Payne, among others. Ohio has been recruiting the DL exceptionally well in recent classes. I don't know who is going to emerge, but I'm not concerned. Yes, it will be a step down, but it still will be very solid.
LB - only lose Blair Brown. The other starters and backups will be there. The linebackers should be outstanding again.
DB - lose Stites, Hardy, and Toran Davis. I expect Nelson back at Safety, giving you four - Nelson, Hagan, Tupa, and Cunningham. At Corner, my guess is that the starters will be Jeff Christian and Mayne Williams, backed up by London Miller and Jalen Fox. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, however, to see one of the Motley bothers, Jaylen Morgan, or Ellis try to crash the top two strings, nor even one of the 3-star recruits for 2017 (True freshmen often play at corner). I except the defensive backs to be significantly improved.
Defense overall: I expect it to be worse up front, better in the back, and overall somewhat better than this year.
Special Teams - Everyone is back, so if anything, it should be better
Overall Team should be slightly better on offense, and slightly better on defense, and slightly better at special teams. The only mystery is QB. On the one hand Maxwell might improve dramatically from his Freshman to Sophomore year, as often happens, or Keszei or Morris might come in and take the job. On the other hand Maxwell might not improve, and/or he might get hurt, and then where are you?

I said a long time ago that 2016 and 2017 were going to years where Ohio had and excellent chance to win the MAC. I think history has proved that 2016 did indeed have an excellent shot, and I still believe 2017 is going to be a very good year, too. My initial look says 2018 will be better than 2017, and 2019 will be the peak of this cycle, with a drop in 2020, but I haven't had time to look at my model carefully.



Excellent analysis. It will come down to two things - QB play and who we draw in the MAC west.



Who we draw in the MAC West shouldn't be a problem if we're a true MAC Contender. That should never be an issue if you're a good enough team. Just food for thought here. Yes it helps a little bit, but at the end of the day you gotta beat em at some point.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 12:11:35 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Who we draw in the MAC West shouldn't be a problem if we're a true MAC Contender. That should never be an issue if you're a good enough team. Just food for thought here. Yes it helps a little bit, but at the end of the day you gotta beat em at some point.

I agree. You can't win the MAC if you can't beat the best teams from the West. Ohio won the MAC East this year by sweeping the East, and winning one from the West. Miami avoided the two best teams in the West and swept the West, but lost two in the East.

As for my long term forecasts, no, they aren't perfect. Given that I'm an optimist, I tend to err on the high side, and I admit that. The general pattern has been correct however. After 2006 I expected a dip, but then forecast a peak in 2011, with an undefeated season, followed by a win over Penn State in early 2012. I expected another down cycle, then another strong cycle, stronger than the first one. 2016 was the front end of the next up cycle, just as 2009 was the front end of the last one. Will the 2017-9 teams be better than 2010-12? I think so, but that remains to be seen.

In any case, this is how I'd compare my forecasts to what happened:
Teams that were better than I forecast: 2006, 2009
Teams that were about what I forecast: 2007-8, 2011-12 (before injuries), 2014
Teams that were slightly worse than I forecast: 2010, 2016
Teams that were worse than I forecast: 2013, 2015

2016 was an interesting team. At times they played very well (Kansas, Tennessee, Miami, Toledo, WMU), while they also had some weaker games (Texas State, BG, EMU). Had they beaten Texas State and EMU, which they should have, they would be 10-3 and I think that everyone would be much happier, even without a MAC Championship.

I'm confident that 2017 will be a good team, and somewhat better than 2016. In any case, we won't seen any more down years for awhile. These forecasts are based on my tracking of recruiting, by the way, which continues to improve each year. It's my assumption that if recruiting continues to improve, the teams made of those recruits will be better.

To my mind, in deciding if things are flat or improving, you have to take the cycle into account, and compare peaks to peaks, and valleys to valleys. Peaks would be 2009-2012, and that should be compared to 2016-2019. The valleys were 2007-8, and 2014-15.

Last Edited: 12/9/2016 12:19:43 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 12:49:41 AM 
If we go back to 2011 Ohio is 10-4 with a bowl win and a narrow loss in the MACC. After two championship games in 3 years there was a sense at that point in Frank's 7th year the tide was starting to turn for the program and it start rolling out division titles with some MACC wins on a regular basis. 2012 & 2013 had disaster collapses. 2014 and after a poor recruiting class the cupboard was low in talent to where it had been. Momentum of the program was derailed and its just now starting to return. The question is are we about to turn the corner on the backs of excellent defense regardless of a few replacements or are we heading back to a 6-6 nadir? With recruiting keeping pace and the future schedules Ohio could be turning the corner to the success levels I've talked about.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 12:53:27 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I'm confident that 2017 will be a good team, and somewhat better than 2016. In any case, we won't seen any more down years for awhile.


Let's hope you're right. But what's a down year? 7-5? 6-6?
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 2:21:21 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
I'm confident that 2017 will be a good team, and somewhat better than 2016. In any case, we won't seen any more down years for awhile.


Let's hope you're right. But what's a down year? 7-5? 6-6?


In 2007-8 it was 6-6 and 4-8, but yes, currently I would consider 7-5 and 6-6 down years.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 5:55:36 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
If we go back to 2011 Ohio is 10-4 with a bowl win and a narrow loss in the MACC. After two championship games in 3 years there was a sense at that point in Frank's 7th year the tide was starting to turn for the program and it start rolling out division titles with some MACC wins on a regular basis. 2012 & 2013 had disaster collapses. 2014 and after a poor recruiting class the cupboard was low in talent to where it had been. Momentum of the program was derailed and its just now starting to return. The question is are we about to turn the corner on the backs of excellent defense regardless of a few replacements or are we heading back to a 6-6 nadir? With recruiting keeping pace and the future schedules Ohio could be turning the corner to the success levels I've talked about.




"2012 & 2013 had disaster collapses." To each his own. NIU & BG. this season, going from the MACC game to 5-7 & 4-8 respectively might be "disaster collapses." Ohio swung down to 7-6 and 6-6. This low cycle was higher than the previous which was 4-8. Ohio is currently cycling upward which has been enjoyable, for me at least, to watch. Not being on the team I do not, like some, pretend to suffer from the losses. "disaster collapses," when bowl eligible seasons are "disasters" to Ohio fans well .... to each his own.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 8:43:12 AM 
L.C. wrote:

OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year



Admittedly, you can't isolate one thing, but for me this is a major key to next year's success. So much of our success or failure starts with the OL. Our running game was weaker this year. Is that because we had injured backs or because the holes were smaller? For that matter, did the OL contribute to the RB injury problem? How often was our QB rushed in the pocket? How often did we give up untimely sacks? Give me a MAC-leading OL and I like our chances--suddenly our QB and our RBs are getting high praises.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 9:20:41 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
L.C. wrote:

OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year



Admittedly, you can't isolate one thing, but for me this is a major key to next year's success. So much of our success or failure starts with the OL. Our running game was weaker this year. Is that because we had injured backs or because the holes were smaller? For that matter, did the OL contribute to the RB injury problem? How often was our QB rushed in the pocket? How often did we give up untimely sacks? Give me a MAC-leading OL and I like our chances--suddenly our QB and our RBs are getting high praises.


The OL only gave up 17 sacks on the year, tied for 23rd in the nation. So it's not like they were bad in that department.

I guess you could place a little emphasis on the RB health. The team never ran for more than 156 yards in November and the YPC went way down compared to earlier in the year.

I think the OL is just as important as you do, but that's actually one part of the team that doesn't worry me. The OL and RBs should be able to do their thing as long as everyone is at full strength. If they aren't? I'd rather not see Ohio try to convert another player to RB. Get some other guys in there.

There is one glaring statistic to look at going into next year though: Ohio ran 49 times for only 141 yards in Week 5 against Miami. If their defense has improved that much this year, they'll be infinitely better next year also. Gotta straighten that out.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 12:39:40 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
L.C. wrote:

OL - 3 starters return, guessing Anderson replaces Cooper, McCray replaces Watson, should be as good or better than this year



Admittedly, you can't isolate one thing, but for me this is a major key to next year's success. So much of our success or failure starts with the OL. Our running game was weaker this year. Is that because we had injured backs or because the holes were smaller? For that matter, did the OL contribute to the RB injury problem? How often was our QB rushed in the pocket? How often did we give up untimely sacks? Give me a MAC-leading OL and I like our chances--suddenly our QB and our RBs are getting high praises.

When your program really is rolling is when you have a solid situation at each position. That starts with identifying talented recruits, signing them up, and building them up. When you get there, that position "reloads, not rebuilds", to use an old saw. That doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately, but when you get there, you know you have a solid position coach and program.

What positions does Ohio have this? First to mind is Wide Receiver. Dixon does a great job. He gets quality recruits, and he trains them up. Ohio has always seems to have very good receivers, year in and year out. Another one is linebacker, where Coach Collins has done a great job. You lose Russell, you find Poling. Year after year, I never doubt that Ohio is going to be good at linebacker.

Another one is DL. Prior to Coach Williams, the defensive line was held together by bandaids. They would bring in Jucos, trying to shore the position up, and were always scrambling to find the right guys. Now the situation is different - they recruit the right guys, and train them up. In 2014 you lost Crutcher, McLeod, and Davis, but the next year was fine. Then you lost Tautuiaki and Purdum, and again, it was fine. This year Ohio loses Laseak, Basham, Sayles, and Strobel, and I predict that it will be fine again.

Running back in a another position where you have this, and even with the incredible number of running back injuries this year, Ohio was fine. Defensive back has also not been a problem. Special teams also fits this mold - good every year.

Where has Ohio had chronic weakness? Two positions come to mind - offensive line, and Quarterback. These have been the stumbling blocks that have kept Ohio from taking that next step up that everyone wants to see. Everyone harps on the playcalling, but is that the problem? If you don't have the QB, and you don't have the offensive line, plays aren't going to work well. If you have a great OL and a great QB, you can call most anything and it will work.

Interestingly, two years ago Vanderbilt hired away two coaches, the Offensive line coach, and the QB coach. This has been a blessing in disguise. I think Johnson is doing a better job than Lightner, and I think that Isphording is doing a better job than Gdowski. Both have been recruiting a much higher quality athlete. Both have seen players progressing faster. Both positions still have major depth issues, however, and both remain the team's weak point.

Going back to Williams, he came to Ohio in 2011, and the line was so thin he was forced to play true freshmen Crutcher and Tony Davis. As he built depth, he shored the position up with some JUCO players and transfers (Branz, McLeod, Tautuiaki, Kendric Smith, and Robbins) but now the pipeline is stuffed with guys he recruited. It took 3-4 years for the defensive line to get where it is, but now it's great.

Can Johnson do the same for the Offensive line? He's following the same script. The talent he inherited was thin, some starters (McQueen, Lucas, Powell, and Watson), and then behind them, not much. He was forced to play true freshmen (Lowery, McCray, Preuhs), and then to try to recruit to fill the pipeline. He added some JUCO talent to short things up in the short term (Anderson, Cooper, Newton for next year), while he continues to recruit some new talent. Can he repeat the success of Williams, identifying quality recruits, and coaching them up? That remains to be seen. If he's successful, then guys like Trotter, Fernandez, Pleasants, Beadle, Notestine, and Grimes will be all-MAC in a couple years. If he's not, they will disappear like many of Lightner's recruits did.

And QB? We've seen Sprague, Vick, and Windham improve under Isphording. We've only seen one Isphording recruit on the field, though, that being Maxwell. I'm hopeful that Maxwell improves dramatically over the off-season, and that come next fall the game is much slower for him. I'm also hopeful that new recruits like Keszei will dazzle us in the future.

The jury is still out on Johnson and Isphording, as far as I'm concerned. I have reason for hoping they are going to get the job done. In order for this not to be "As good as it gets", these two positions need to get better. They have been the two consistent problem areas over the last five years. If they do improve, and the other positions remain solid, where we are is definitely not "as good as it gets". As far as other positions, they are all generally solid, year after year. Yes, this year was very, very thin at CB, but I think that was an exception, not an ongoing problem.

Last Edited: 12/9/2016 12:48:57 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: As Good as it Gets
   Posted: 12/9/2016 2:19:41 PM 
Thanks LC. Great response. I don't know how you find the time for your research, but I appreciate your efforts.
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