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Topic: RE: As Good as it Gets

Topic: RE: As Good as it Gets

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Mark Lembright '85
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,447

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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:06:54 PM

PVRAY wrote:

I have followed the Bobcats since 1964 and I love them....whatever the record!
They did well last night against a great team! Give them and coach the kudos!
Historically, mediocrity is probably the best adjective for the Bobcats...but
what is the solution?.....coach?....recruiting?...different conference?....
the University (President, Board of Trustees, Director of Athletics) have made some terrible decisions in the past. Do you think that pattern is really going to change? WMU is paying their coach over $800,000....when will Ohio pay $1M?
I have waited 53 years for a smart decision!

Short of a major donation from a booster, Ohio University will never pay a $1 million yearly salary to a football coach. Heck, 99% of the campus already thinks that one half million is too much.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:13:19 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

PVRAY wrote:

Short of a major donation from a booster, Ohio University will never pay a $1 million yearly salary to a football coach. Heck, 99% of the campus already thinks that one half million is too much.

Want to know what's holding the program back? Check out the fan differential last night. Yeah, we brought our standard 3500-4k. Whatever. WEstern filled a freaking NFL stadium.

And I'm sorry, even if we were 12-0, ranked and playing for the Cotton Bowl, we don't get 35 thousand in green to any stadium on the planet.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:21:17 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

PVRAY wrote:

Short of a major donation from a booster, Ohio University will never pay a $1 million yearly salary to a football coach. Heck, 99% of the campus already thinks that one half million is too much.

I would hope we could get that many fans to the Rose Bowl (dare to dream!) but I think you're spot on. Honestly, I don't think Ohio even has 40,000 total football fans period. Seriously.

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,930

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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:59:06 PM

The resentment on this board towards Fleck is laugh-a-ble. He just flipped a program on its head and took a MAC school to 13-0, two Big Ten wins and a Cotton Bowl in the same year and you all don't like him because he neglected to mention Ohio in the post-game interview immediately after the final gun?

Boo freaking hoo. I'd take a Fleck type guy in a millisecond to jump start this tired and old program. You guys must not be watching the same guy I am. Just because he's excited compared to Franks "Court Street Shuffle" he does on the sidelines doesn't make him a bad guy.

GoCats105
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 10:02:45 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

PVRAY wrote:

Short of a major donation from a booster, Ohio University will never pay a $1 million yearly salary to a football coach. Heck, 99% of the campus already thinks that one half million is too much.

I would hope we could get that many fans to the Rose Bowl (dare to dream!) but I think you're spot on. Honestly, I don't think Ohio even has 40,000 total football fans period. Seriously.

I don't think you're wrong.

I said it to my gf last night. We regularly put more people in Cleveland for a MAC title in basketball than we do for football in Detroit. WMU broke the MAC title attendance record by themselves.

GoCats105
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 10:29:50 PM

Bobcatzblitz wrote:

I asked a Former Ohio starting QB last nite his insight on what OUr problem is he said ONE WORD. Albin.

This is SO, so telling. If the players see it...man.

allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 12:46:53 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

allen wrote:

Is this the case for losing? Our players deserve better fans. Fleck may leave and he may stay, FS is 70+, I rather win the MAC and play in a BCS game than have heartbreak hotel every year.

Better fans? You don't know what you're talking about. We'll leave it at that.

If we win, we lose Frank. Is that your mantra? Let's just be competitive to keep Frank. Maybe you should talk to FS and let him know that you are scared to win a MAC championship, because we may lose him. Go Cat's, we don't believe the medi's, you can win, what happened at WMU can happen here. Put the MAC on your shoulders and don't let the medi's wash your car.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:04:59 AM

AlumDadDad wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why and when we lost last night:

1) Our 2nd last drive in the 2nd quarter, we had 3rd and 14 at about our 10. We run it. (Gets stuffed at line for no gain or small loss.) Huh? No other team in the history of football runs it there. Behind 16-7 and a huge underdog, we had nothing to lose there. We were positioned to take a stab at a huge win. How big? It would have would have validated Solich...and shut Monroe up.

But typical Solich/Albin fear of a turnover means we go ultra-conservative. As usual. Leading to the as usual loss in MAC title game.

We had nothing to lose there.

Nope, sorry, you've got that wrong. That was the right call in that particular situation. A turnover there and the game completely gets away from us. (not an unlikely outcome, as our quarterback was struggling)

We lost the game with a combination of the two turnovers early in the game (Maxwell dropping the ball, and Belack failing to protect the ball on the kick return), and the inability of our offensive line to move the WMU defensive front off the line of scrimmage to establish a running game.

The two turnovers were unforced (even though it was a big hit on the kick return, the ball was not stripped or knocked loose, just poor ball protection). Even though the defense did an outstanding job limiting WMU to field goals off those turnovers in our territory, the loss of field position and spotting WMU the eventual margin of victory were huge.

Don't think that I'm trying to blame individual players. We have to remember that they're KIDS playing this game. Big, talented kids, but kids nevertheless. They make mistakes, but I'm proud of how hard they played.

Last night was not a moral victory. We lost and it didn't feel good. I especially hate to lose to someone as annoying as Fleck. But, anyone who thinks we're not one of the two best teams in the MAC after last night's game has got a screw loose. We belong, but I want to see us get better. I believe we have a good chance to do that.

One more thing, Frank's a little short in the charisma department, but I wouldn't trade him for the ridiculous "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME" antics of Fleck. Frank gives players on both sides of the field credit when it's due. He directs attention to the players, where it belongs.

Sorry. Gotta disagree bigtime.

The early turnovers were history and we'd basically fended them off by holding WMU to field goals.

You do point exactly to part Solich's prime ultra-conservative defects: fear of a turnover.

On those last two first half possessions, we probably would not have scored. But fear-of-a-turnover not even taking a shot absolutely guaranteed that we would not score....

in a game in which we had nothing to lose.

There is absolutely no reason to have not tried to get points on either of those last two first half possessions.

A score before half could have changed the outcome. But extreme-conservative, total-fear-of-turnover, we showed no gusto at all.

It's Albin, not Solich? That makes no sense.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 9:10:19 AM

allen wrote:

This response of your is plain-old, grade-A delusional. What ARE you talking about? I'm fearful of losing Frank? That's why I accept and promote mediocrity? I won't argue with you any more. It's totally pointless.

allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 11:07:38 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

allen wrote:

You said that you would rather have the same coaching staff rather than winning and going to the BCS and having to start over. What are we supposed to take from that?

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 11:19:17 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I'm not totally sure that you're right. You could be, but Our fans come out for big-time success. For a MAC school, that's much more viable in basketball, and our basketball team has delivered more than once.

I don't think there's any way to know how fans would react to football success. I do think the program is hampered by a perceived lack of national relevance (which all G5 schools must overcome) and the general misery of the 70's until Solich. I know a lot of alumni - and even people ON CAMPUS - who think the football team still loses most games. Today's steady 7-5/8-4 records with no championships are a lot better than being in the running for worst FBS program, but it has not changed much for the average fan. An undefeated season and shot at a major bowl might finally bury the ghosts of horrid decades past.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 12:15:11 PM

Still think winning a MAC title will revive OHIO FOOTBALL.

It's the prime goal.

It's not likely that we'll go undefeated. It's not fair to state that as the prime goal.

However, a MAC title is very obtainable, is a reasonable goal and is the one thing we can 'do' to find out if football will ever be relevant at OHIO.

That may be why I advocate for it at about every possible moment.

I've basically said this many times. Don't understand why it's so difficult for so many of you to get.

If we're not going to support this prime goal, then let's drop football.

Cats-22
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 12:44:54 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Just because people don't share your priorities, that doesn't mean people don't understand them. I think putting all the emphasis on conference championships is the wrong approach for college athletics, I think it's a disservice to the players and it leads to bad hire/fire decisions. Excellence year-in and year-out should be the goal, with the expectation that championships will eventually be part of that as long as you're performing at a high level all the time.

Part of my view here is based on what happened with Nebraska in the 80s. The criticism of FS is similar to what they said about Osborne. Won a lot of games, but never put it all together to win a championship. But TO's approach turned out to work pretty well, which was hammered home in 1994-1997.

FS is older than TO was and comparing almost anyone to Osborne is unfair -- I'm certainly not trying to equate FS to TO here. But I think the approaches of the two coaches, and the fan reactions then and now, share some similarities.

Last Edited: 12/4/2016 12:46:26 PM by Cats-22

OhioCatFan
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 1:50:32 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . There is absolutely no reason to have not tried to get points on either of those last two first half possessions.

A score before half could have changed the outcome. But extreme-conservative, total-fear-of-turnover, we showed no gusto at all. . . .

Yes, a score before halftime could have changed the outcome. Flinging the ball downfield could have also lead to another WMU score in those situations. There's a concept called "field position" that dictates what many coaches will call in a given situation. OHIO had very poor field position on that possession. I suspect 90 percent of FBS head coaches would have done what Frank did in that situation. I actually texted a cousin of mine at that point in the game that I wanted to see GW try a deep ball. However, when the decision was otherwise, I understood why. You seem to confuse the desires of a fan with a low football IQ with the learned decision of a the old ball coach. I'll take the old ball coaches decisions over what you or I would have done in a particular situation any time. I don't know about you, but I've never coached even one win in a college football game.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:01:09 PM

Cats-22...What excellence? Not around OHIO FOOTBALL for the last 12 years, each season of which has included AT LEAST FOUR LOSSES. I'll give you 2-3 years for Solich to institute his program. But not 12.

And we all get it; there will be no short term, revolving door tenures at OHIO FOOTBALL. There's no budget for it.

12 years, to some people, is not short term.

What excellence?

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:01:18 PM

OCF--I get it you're of the ilk of close-minded, fear of a turnover.

That's sad.

I want to follow...be 'part of'...a team that plays with gusto. Not one which is imbued with fear, which is ultra-conservative to the point of getting in it's own way.

You, apparently, think I'm kidding or incapable of rational thought when I say that Solich won't MACC.

Really? 12 years of it and thinking it'll happen in year 13--give me any examples of that.

Add in the huge losses on D (espec D-line), losses of Smith and Reid, and uncertainty at QB. Our D has been terrific at times this year. Will not happen next year.

Remember the year in which we about led the nation in turnover takeaways. Haven't had one like it since. Get it?

BobcatSports
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:15:16 PM

1. Frank will not make any staff changes. It's a product of what happened to him at Nebraska. He will remain "loyal" till the end.

2. Schaus will not intercede to force staff changes. His theory is if it ain't broke don't fix it. The template has been successful, depending on one's definition of success. Schedule the one away money game, schedule a VMI type and a bottom rung New Mexico St. type, the MAC schedule is the MAC schedule, go 8-4 or 7-5. Hopefully win the East and even if not the record will still normally land a Potato or Pizza type bowl bid. Season ticket sales have increased, we got the IPF, the falling concrete didn't kill anyone, life's good. We don't have the money to do much more anyway so the status quo is on par or better than the majority of other MAC programs.

3. Is our "offensive" system by design or our inabilty to recruit stay in the pocket type QBs? If the system is by design that we favor the run oriented QB and we recruit with that mindset, than we have to live with the fact that our QBs will keep getting injured at a high frequency. I.E. look at our 4 MACC appearances under Frank. 3 out of the 4 we went in with severely hobbled starting QBs, Everson, Theo and Windham. Not only were we playing a hurt QB, a lot of our offensive "scheme", QB runs, were not available to us making us that more easily to defense. Not a defense of Albin but playing with hurt QBs, whose strengths are run first - with below average passing skills, greatly inhibits our chances of prevailing.

4. The product we experienced between Hess to Frank, albeit the brief Grobe cameo, was a National punchline. As I've stated before I think this staff plateaued a few years ago. That said I expect the powers to be to not "Rock" the Boat" as opposed to our most recent experience of "Row the Boaters".

cc-cat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:16:45 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Still think winning a MAC title will revive OHIO FOOTBALL.

You keep presenting this argument. So fine "will revive OHIO Football"

From what?
To what?
With whom?

To be "revived" we must be dormant with a segment of the fan base. Which segment?

Ticket holders? we continue to lead the MAC in attendance - year over year - lead.

Casual fans? I've already explained that many already think we have won a MACC.

So to whom is this "revival" going to take place with? When did this segment walk away from Ohio football?

Bcat2
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:23:41 PM

BobcatSports wrote:

Your plateau has a slope. Ohio is trending upward. Past three seasons, 6-6 no bowl, 8-5 beat West Champs, 8-5 East Champs, MACC game to be proud of, bowl win still pending.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 2:32:24 PM

Here, I'll help... if you're a person on the go, and you have a pet, where do you put stuff? Get a bag for it! Give Monroe something to do.

giacomo
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 3:06:30 PM

Robert Fox, you must realize by now that some on this board are delusional. Some of the comments really speak to a lack of understanding of the most basic tenants of sports competition. I could say more, but why?

bostonbobcat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 4:14:39 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Would Solich's record be above .500 if Ohio was in the West Division for the past 12 years?

Yes, but without a trip to the MACC.

rpbobcat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 4:20:09 PM

Just like politics, posts on this board aren't going to change anyone's feelings about the current coaching staff.

Yes a MAC Title would be nice, but is that the only benchmark to measure the success of our football program ?

I don't think anyone can objectively say that Frank's tenure as coach hasn't markedly improved the program from what it was.

People criticize the bowls we've been going to.
Before Frank we didn't get to complain.

People complain that we don't win the MAC.
Before Frank, O.U. wasn't in the equation.

Also, does anyone think that, if it wasn't for Frank, we'd have an IPF and new Academic Center ?

I remember when O.U's claim to fame was having the longest losing streak in D1 and the team everyone wanted to schedule for homecoming.

I do wish we'd be more consistent winning Bowls.
I'd also like to see a more "open" offense.

I never played or coached football, so I'm not qualified to say a coach should do this or that.

I wrestled in college.
I love it when fans at a match, who never wrestled or coached, start criticizing a wrestler or coach.
My attitude, get out on a mat, then talk to me.

I feel the same way here.
People can have their opinions, but they aren't responsible for what happens on the field.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 6:29:38 PM

I'm sorry, but if we're truly going to make a dent, then the culture of us needs to truly change.

We are "content" with 8-4 records every year because we don't demand more of ourselves.

We are "content" with Frank receiving bonuses for winning 7 and 8 games yet not a single bonus for a MAC Championship.

How can we say that we're truly going for a MACC when our coach DOESNT HAVE A FREAKING CLAUSE IN THERE FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP?!?!?

So I say to us: I don't care if we call it the "BobcatAttack/Monroe Slavin Memorial Bonus Incentive." I am willing to put up 1K right now towards a bonus for him winning a MACC so that maybe, just maybe our coaches can actually have motivation to strive for higher instead of 7-5. Heck, I would even include a bonus on there to get Marshall on the schedule on an annual basis for 3 decades but we won't do that because we're afraid of messing up Frank's bonus structure.

When I see a thread on here congratulating Temple on a conference championship, remember these were the same yahoos that were kicked out of the Big East and didn't want to be in the MAC. They made a commitment to their athletics and look at them now, as they had a streak just as long as us. They were on our level, in fact worse. Heck, Western Michigan was a lagging program in the MAC for a long time. Then they get someone in there who excites, can out-recruit the Big Ten middle and bottom schools, and look at them now. They're going to a Cotton Bowl while we go to another no-name bowl in Alabama.

Dare I say this on here as well, but we get what we pay for. Well, we pay for family packs to watch the band and leave at halftime. I ain't saying we need to empty our wallets, but we need to up things on all fronts. The culture from alums need to change, especially when we have an alumni base of 200,000 people. Good lord, that's on par with Big Ten schools when you put it in perspective so why can't we be like them. Using Ohio State or West Virginia as an excuse would be a futile effort to do with this argument, especially as I did my undergrad at the evil empire yet feel more affinity for Athens. For only 2,200 to show up in Detroit was pitiful, especially for the "pride" we have in Ohio. Sure, it was a Friday, but you're telling me Clevelanders can't make a two hour drive over? Aiy Curumba.

And if you're content with where were at, then so be it. 7-5 is what we'll get every year at most, especially with Miami to the west going on a capital campaign to blow us out of the water with facilities. I sure as hell ain't letting them kick our butts around, especially because those yahoos don't give a hoot about their teams.

Sorry for sounding like Monroe, but the canary is screaming in the coal mine right now in terms of our peers in the MAC. We are going to fall behind and it will take a decade to undo when that plank is pulled out from underneath us.

Last Edited: 12/4/2016 6:30:50 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

Bcat2
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/4/2016 6:38:19 PM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Hello!!! Coach Solich was one play away from this MACC without a bonus for it. Ohio was one play away from the title and you want to change the culture. Not buying it.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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