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Topic:  RE: #FireSolich

Topic:  RE: #FireSolich
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:22:57 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Good grief. The PSU & ULM wins were years ago and you're hanging on to them just like the people you are arguing with hang on to 2-13 the last four years vs winning MAC programs.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?



Hypocrisy is irrelevant when analyzing the validity of a statement.

Either both stats from 4 years are out dated or they are relevant to this point in time. Which is it bshot? There's no right or wrong answer. Just define the parameters. Are 4 year old data too old?

P.S.

And for the record I think Bcat was merely bringing up those points to rebuttal the "in the last 35 mac games" stat.


I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.


You were calling him a time dependent hypocrit. You made no mention of the bowl game or out of conference qualifications (because that inconveniently wouldn't make him a hypocrit).

So solely on the basis of time, is it okay to use data from 4 years ago?
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:28:13 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.

I tend to agree with The Situation that either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.

Personally I would compare the period 2013-2014 to 2007-2008, since those were both cyclical lows, and I would include 2015 with the data for the next two years, and compare those to 2009-2011, and to 2006, since those periods are cyclical highs. I know that 2016-17 have yet to be played, but as they are played, we can compare them to the past to see if things are still rising, or not.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:31:36 AM 
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Good grief. The PSU & ULM wins were years ago and you're hanging on to them just like the people you are arguing with hang on to 2-13 the last four years vs winning MAC programs.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?



Hypocrisy is irrelevant when analyzing the validity of a statement.

Either both stats from 4 years are out dated or they are relevant to this point in time. Which is it bshot? There's no right or wrong answer. Just define the parameters. Are 4 year old data too old?

P.S.

And for the record I think Bcat was merely bringing up those points to rebuttal the "in the last 35 mac games" stat.


I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.


You were calling him a time dependent hypocrit. You made no mention of the bowl game or out of conference qualifications (because that inconveniently wouldn't make him a hypocrit).

So solely on the basis of time, is it okay to use data from 4 years ago?



My point was Bcat2 was using wins from 2012 to prove a point they thought the program was trending up but when someone points out the multiple losses it gets discredited.

You can't credit the wins from 2012 without acknowledging the losses from 2012-2015....which by the way far outweigh the those wins, sadly.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:33:45 AM 
It is interesting that we are something like 50-1 when leading at halftime under Solich. the only loss is the MACC game - That one aberration is the cause of incredible angst - Had the "1" been any other game, Monroe/Allen and others would be singing Solich's praise. One game....one half, completely defining an argument. Just find it interesting.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:34:01 AM 
L.C. wrote:
....either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.


exactly. That's my point. Be rational and open your eyes to the good and bad. A lot of folks only want to see one side
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:36:39 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Good grief. The PSU & ULM wins were years ago and you're hanging on to them just like the people you are arguing with hang on to 2-13 the last four years vs winning MAC programs.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?



Hypocrisy is irrelevant when analyzing the validity of a statement.

Either both stats from 4 years are out dated or they are relevant to this point in time. Which is it bshot? There's no right or wrong answer. Just define the parameters. Are 4 year old data too old?

P.S.

And for the record I think Bcat was merely bringing up those points to rebuttal the "in the last 35 mac games" stat.


I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.


You were calling him a time dependent hypocrit. You made no mention of the bowl game or out of conference qualifications (because that inconveniently wouldn't make him a hypocrit).

So solely on the basis of time, is it okay to use data from 4 years ago?



My point was Bcat2 was using wins from 2012 to prove a point they thought the program was trending up but when someone points out the multiple losses it gets discredited.

You can't credit the wins from 2012 without acknowledging the losses from 2012-2015....which by the way far outweigh the those wins, sadly.




Bcat was not using data from 2012 to prove Ohio is trending upward. He's looking at the last 12 games, comparing them to the 2014 season with no wins against teams with a winning record, and therefore concluding Ohio is trending upward.

He only mentions 2012, as I have aswell to show those seasons were not as bad as the cherry picked data would suggest.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:38:03 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
....either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.


exactly. That's my point. Be rational and open your eyes to the good and bad. A lot of folks only want to see one side


You're literally not answering the question.

You jumped in the ring to call someone a hypocrit.

So what is your answer?! Which is right in your mind? Is 4 year old data relevant to this point in time?
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:40:34 AM 
Situation, this is what I was referring to:

Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


Let go of that baggage. Your knuckles are white with the death grip you have on it. The players deserve better from their "fans." Oh, and with your omission of good wins like Marshall, Penn State, Louisiana-Monroe in the Independence Bowl you deny by omission success of the players. You are denying their hard earned progress. Who brought the term "liar" to the discussion? Oh, you did. Well, again if it fits with by omission you might have just made a Freudian slip.




They were using the 2012 wins to solidify that the program was trending upward.

I don't think there is an omission of success when it comes to acknowledging those wins or the NIU win this year...I think it's the lack of acknowledging the losses too.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 10:42:40 AM 
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
....either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.


exactly. That's my point. Be rational and open your eyes to the good and bad. A lot of folks only want to see one side


You're literally not answering the question.

You jumped in the ring to call someone a hypocrit.

So what is your answer?! Which is right in your mind? Is 4 year old data relevant to this point in time?


Data from four years or 4000 years ago is totally relevant when you acknowledge both the good and bad. Look at the whole, not just one side
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:06:15 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
Situation, this is what I was referring to:

Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


Let go of that baggage. Your knuckles are white with the death grip you have on it. The players deserve better from their "fans." Oh, and with your omission of good wins like Marshall, Penn State, Louisiana-Monroe in the Independence Bowl you deny by omission success of the players. You are denying their hard earned progress. Who brought the term "liar" to the discussion? Oh, you did. Well, again if it fits with by omission you might have just made a Freudian slip.




They were using the 2012 wins to solidify that the program was trending upward.

I don't think there is an omission of success when it comes to acknowledging those wins or the NIU win this year...I think it's the lack of acknowledging the losses too.


NO ONE IS IGNORING THE LOSSES. Bcat clearly explains why he's mentioning games from 2012. Because the Oracles have ommitted those games and are only interested in losses but none of the wins.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:09:09 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
....either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.


exactly. That's my point. Be rational and open your eyes to the good and bad. A lot of folks only want to see one side


You're literally not answering the question.

You jumped in the ring to call someone a hypocrit.

So what is your answer?! Which is right in your mind? Is 4 year old data relevant to this point in time?


Data from four years or 4000 years ago is totally relevant when you acknowledge both the good and bad. Look at the whole, not just one side


I agree with that statement. I don't agree with your specific application of that statement. You're manipulating what's actually happening here.

There's a long paper trail here establishes only one party interested in manipulated data. ("in the last 35 MAC games" is a clear example of an offense of the principle you've described.)
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:11:43 AM 
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Situation, this is what I was referring to:

Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


Let go of that baggage. Your knuckles are white with the death grip you have on it. The players deserve better from their "fans." Oh, and with your omission of good wins like Marshall, Penn State, Louisiana-Monroe in the Independence Bowl you deny by omission success of the players. You are denying their hard earned progress. Who brought the term "liar" to the discussion? Oh, you did. Well, again if it fits with by omission you might have just made a Freudian slip.




They were using the 2012 wins to solidify that the program was trending upward.

I don't think there is an omission of success when it comes to acknowledging those wins or the NIU win this year...I think it's the lack of acknowledging the losses too.


NO ONE IS IGNORING THE LOSSES. Bcat clearly explains why he's mentioning games from 2012. Because the Oracles have ommitted those games and are only interested in losses but none of the wins.


LOUD NOISES! I can't speak for "the oracles", but I know the many losses far outweigh the good wins since 2012. That's my point when I respectfully disagree the program is trending up. I'd like to see that reversed. I'd take a crappy inexplicable loss to EMU if it meant we were beating BG, Toledo, WMU & CMU consistently.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:15:14 AM 
cc-cat wrote:
It is interesting that we are something like 50-1 when leading at halftime under Solich. the only loss is the MACC game - That one aberration is the cause of incredible angst - Had the "1" been any other game, Monroe/Allen and others would be singing Solich's praise. One game....one half, completely defining an argument. Just find it interesting.

No, they wouldn't. They would just be using different arguments. A MACC didn't protect J.D. Brookhart at Akron, and a National Championship may not protect Miles at LSU. If you don't have one, it's a convenient argument, but if you do, the argument just moves to something else.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:21:23 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Situation, this is what I was referring to:

Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


Let go of that baggage. Your knuckles are white with the death grip you have on it. The players deserve better from their "fans." Oh, and with your omission of good wins like Marshall, Penn State, Louisiana-Monroe in the Independence Bowl you deny by omission success of the players. You are denying their hard earned progress. Who brought the term "liar" to the discussion? Oh, you did. Well, again if it fits with by omission you might have just made a Freudian slip.




They were using the 2012 wins to solidify that the program was trending upward.

I don't think there is an omission of success when it comes to acknowledging those wins or the NIU win this year...I think it's the lack of acknowledging the losses too.


NO ONE IS IGNORING THE LOSSES. Bcat clearly explains why he's mentioning games from 2012. Because the Oracles have ommitted those games and are only interested in losses but none of the wins.


LOUD NOISES! I can't speak for "the oracles", but I know the many losses far outweigh the good wins since 2012. That's my point when I respectfully disagree the program is trending up. I'd like to see that reversed. I'd take a crappy inexplicable loss to EMU if it meant we were beating BG, Toledo, WMU & CMU consistently.


So specifically to my point, how does this make Bcat a hypocrit?
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Cats-22
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 11:23:38 AM 
L.C. wrote:
No, they wouldn't. They would just be using different arguments. A MACC didn't protect J.D. Brookhart at Akron, and a National Championship may not protect Miles at LSU. If you don't have one, it's a convenient argument, but if you do, the argument just moves to something else.


Very accurate observation. I do really want to see FS win a MAC championship, as soon as possible, don't get me wrong. But what he's done so far has put Ohio in a good position to win one, IMO. A better position than Akron, Miami, and Buffalo are in now, even though those three teams have won MACCs in the past 11 years.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 1:19:27 PM 
bshot44 wrote:


The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.



Taking down NIU was a good start. However, with the exception of NIU the best MAC teams are taking turns drubbing each other. As Ohio continues to become stronger, trending upward from a cyclical low in 2014 I expect Ohio to eliminate the Buffalo/Minn type losses and to achieve some new higher highs for the program. Credit to L.C. for this, just read it in another post of his. Again, I expect the good MAC teams will continue to drub each other with things like schedule, injuries, breaks and a little luck determining the MACC. Getting back in the fight at the top is the next step.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 1:45:57 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
It is interesting that we are something like 50-1 when leading at halftime under Solich. the only loss is the MACC game - That one aberration is the cause of incredible angst - Had the "1" been any other game, Monroe/Allen and others would be singing Solich's praise. One game....one half, completely defining an argument. Just find it interesting.



Mark Lembright--I agree that people should see the good and the bad. So, some of us ain't letting Bcat2 get away with his/her view that the program is in perfect shape. IT's a fair allegation that he or she is somehow tied to the program, that his/her posts couldn't be more 'all is perfect' if he was paid to do program PR.

I 100% agree that it's different if we didn't go from 20-0 at halftime to 20-23 at final whistle in the MAC title game. (Uh, don't care about scores at halftime; only final score counts.) That MACC title game 20-23 loss was perfectly emblematic of the arch-conservative Solich approach.

It is a legitimate, reasonably objective view to think that our record over the last 4 years in MAC is continuously bad in key games. Those three slamblams Beefs WMU BG determined our MACC destiny. It is unacceptable to perform as we did in those games.

After that, beating notverygood kents and Balls was routine, to be expected. NIU was a good win as I've stated.

Failure to hold accountable--after 11 years--for the three crashing defeats this year is to....well, let's see what happens next year in the key games.

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 1:57:33 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Good grief. The PSU & ULM wins were years ago and you're hanging on to them just like the people you are arguing with hang on to 2-13 the last four years vs winning MAC programs.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?



Hypocrisy is irrelevant when analyzing the validity of a statement.

Either both stats from 4 years are out dated or they are relevant to this point in time. Which is it bshot? There's no right or wrong answer. Just define the parameters. Are 4 year old data too old?

P.S.

And for the record I think Bcat was merely bringing up those points to rebuttal the "in the last 35 mac games" stat.


I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.


You were calling him a time dependent hypocrit. You made no mention of the bowl game or out of conference qualifications (because that inconveniently wouldn't make him a hypocrit).

So solely on the basis of time, is it okay to use data from 4 years ago?



My point was Bcat2 was using wins from 2012 to prove a point they thought the program was trending up but when someone points out the multiple losses it gets discredited.

You can't credit the wins from 2012 without acknowledging the losses from 2012-2015....which by the way far outweigh the those wins, sadly.




Let me clear up a few things. Again we were presented with some baggage from the last four years. However, as usual the baggage was light, failing to credit some of the player's best work over the specified period. Inadvertent omissions I am sure. I just wished the discussion to include the very good with the bad. For me to establish how the program is trending I go back only to the Buffalo game of 2014. I see thing getting better while others just keep their death grip on their light and dated baggage. I can't wait to see the 2016 OL once it rounds into form with White outside and A.J. inside, Reid short, Smith & Cope deep. These players deserve so much better from their "fans."

Last Edited: 11/28/2015 2:04:37 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 2:37:04 PM 
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


When pray tell were those two wins? Doesn't that show improvement over the last few seasons when we didn't get those type of MAC wins? Or was it just a fluke? I prefer to concentrate on the recent, positive trend in this regard. Hold the phone, Monroe, this doesn't mean I've forgotten the three-game skid this year, but that's past history now. We are on a roll, and I'm looking forward to next year.

Last Edited: 11/28/2015 2:37:59 PM by OhioCatFan

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 2:49:19 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


When pray tell were those two wins? Doesn't that show improvement over the last few seasons when we didn't get those type of MAC wins? Or was it just a fluke? I prefer to concentrate on the recent, positive trend in this regard. Hold the phone, Monroe, this doesn't mean I've forgotten the three-game skid this year, but that's past history now. We are on a roll, and I'm looking forward to next year.



Yes, those two wins were this year.

So were 62-24, 49-14 & 42-17.

You choose to concentrate on what supports your view that the program is trending up.

Akron W
WMU L
UB L
BG L
NIU W

Based on your logic, you should weigh the three losses more than the Akron win because they're more recent.

But you don't. You bend your facts to meet your desire to create an optimistic view of the program while ignoring the big fat elephant in the room.

That's what I mean when I say acknowledge all the facts, not just the positive ones.

Those three embarrassing defeats are similar to what I've seen the past four years in meaningful games.

That's why I'm hesitant to say the program is trending upwards.

We still haven't proved we can consistently compete with the MACs best when it matters most.

We did that in 2009-11. We haven't since.

That's where my concern lies. Am I less of "fan" (as Bcat2 puts it) because I'm not 1000% excited about where we are as a program? No. I'm just as big of a fan as Bcat2 or any of these others who think the program is trending up.

I just have a different viewpoint. Tired of my Ohio fandom being questioned for having a differing opinion on where this program is.

Last Edited: 11/28/2015 2:55:16 PM by bshot44
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 2:59:30 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
The Situation wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Good grief. The PSU & ULM wins were years ago and you're hanging on to them just like the people you are arguing with hang on to 2-13 the last four years vs winning MAC programs.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?



Hypocrisy is irrelevant when analyzing the validity of a statement.

Either both stats from 4 years are out dated or they are relevant to this point in time. Which is it bshot? There's no right or wrong answer. Just define the parameters. Are 4 year old data too old?

P.S.

And for the record I think Bcat was merely bringing up those points to rebuttal the "in the last 35 mac games" stat.


I would say using a bowl win and out-of-conference win from 2012 to prove your point that the team is "trending up" is a little ridiculous

Using a 2-13 record over the past four years to show there has been a trend of underachieving is probably a little more rational

The way this year's team finished the season brings hope that things will reverse going forward and they will no longer get drubbed consistently by good MAC teams.


You were calling him a time dependent hypocrit. You made no mention of the bowl game or out of conference qualifications (because that inconveniently wouldn't make him a hypocrit).

So solely on the basis of time, is it okay to use data from 4 years ago?



My point was Bcat2 was using wins from 2012 to prove a point they thought the program was trending up but when someone points out the multiple losses it gets discredited.

You can't credit the wins from 2012 without acknowledging the losses from 2012-2015....which by the way far outweigh the those wins, sadly.




Let me clear up a few things. Again we were presented with some baggage from the last four years. However, as usual the baggage was light, failing to credit some of the player's best work over the specified period. Inadvertent omissions I am sure. I just wished the discussion to include the very good with the bad. For me to establish how the program is trending I go back only to the Buffalo game of 2014. I see thing getting better while others just keep their death grip on their light and dated baggage. I can't wait to see the 2016 OL once it rounds into form with White outside and A.J. inside, Reid short, Smith & Cope deep. These players deserve so much better from their "fans."


How does one win make a 35, 35 & 38 point loss a month prior dated baggage?

Those happened recently. They can't be ignored or discredited when discussing where this program is trending.

Especially when they have been more of the norm in recent years compared to one big MAC win
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Bcat2
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 3:02:18 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


When pray tell were those two wins? Doesn't that show improvement over the last few seasons when we didn't get those type of MAC wins? Or was it just a fluke? I prefer to concentrate on the recent, positive trend in this regard. Hold the phone, Monroe, this doesn't mean I've forgotten the three-game skid this year, but that's past history now. We are on a roll, and I'm looking forward to next year.



Yes, those two wins were this year.

So were 62-24, 49-14 & 42-17.

Those three embarrassing defeats are similar to what I've seen the past four years in meaningful games.

That's why I'm hesitant to say the program is trending upwards.

We still haven't proved we can consistently compete with the MACs best when it matters most.

We did that in 2009-11. We haven't since.

That's where my concern lies. Am I less of "fan" (as Bcat2 puts it) because I'm not 1000% excited about where we are as a program? No. I'm just as big of a fan as Bcat2 or any of these others who think the program is trending up.

I just have a different viewpoint. Tired of my Ohio fandom being questioned for having a differing opinion on where this program is.


I have said the players deserve better because you consistently present an argument which denigrates their performance past and recent denying by omission their best work.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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redbirdman
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2015
Post Count: 4

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 4:07:24 PM 
BSU fan again. Your team finished strong congratulations and I think you are the power of the MAC east. Babers will leave BG and you look like the best in the east from here. Hope you win your bowl and Solich leaves on his own accord. He is in my opinion a good coach.
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bshot44
General User



Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 5:06:45 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
We are 2-12 over the last four years against MAC teams with a winning record. That does not constitute a program on the rise, especially with one of those victories coming against Akron. I hope the NIU victory is a start of things to come in the future. I am not a denier, just not a liar.


When pray tell were those two wins? Doesn't that show improvement over the last few seasons when we didn't get those type of MAC wins? Or was it just a fluke? I prefer to concentrate on the recent, positive trend in this regard. Hold the phone, Monroe, this doesn't mean I've forgotten the three-game skid this year, but that's past history now. We are on a roll, and I'm looking forward to next year.



Yes, those two wins were this year.

So were 62-24, 49-14 & 42-17.

Those three embarrassing defeats are similar to what I've seen the past four years in meaningful games.

That's why I'm hesitant to say the program is trending upwards.

We still haven't proved we can consistently compete with the MACs best when it matters most.

We did that in 2009-11. We haven't since.

That's where my concern lies. Am I less of "fan" (as Bcat2 puts it) because I'm not 1000% excited about where we are as a program? No. I'm just as big of a fan as Bcat2 or any of these others who think the program is trending up.

I just have a different viewpoint. Tired of my Ohio fandom being questioned for having a differing opinion on where this program is.


I have said the players deserve better because you consistently present an argument which denigrates their performance past and recent denying by omission their best work.



Find one example of me omitting their best work.

It just kills you to look closely at their not-best work.

I publicly applauded their win vs NIU....admitted my previous comments on Sprague may have been wrong given his last couple performances.

I just choose to be more objective in my grading of this program.

You choose to be more accepting of failure in certain spots.

No problem.

I choose to hold them accountable when they don't perform well.

You want to hand out participation ribbons and celebrate how hard they try.

Oh, well. Agree to disagree
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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: #FireSolich
   Posted: 11/28/2015 8:09:06 PM 
"Not the victory but the action; Not the goal but the game; In the deed the glory"
Hartley Burr Alexander

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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