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Topic: RE: MACtion strangeness

Topic: RE: MACtion strangeness

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,310

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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 10:51:00 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

It was dynamic, crowd-pleasing.

Only lacked ability, due to lack of passing game, to come back against a short clock.

While I was a fan of a well-run wishbone and later, the speed option, I wouldn't call it crowd-pleasing, not universally, at least. People still complained that we never passed it, and if you've ever talked to a girl about football -- no disrespect to our gender counterparts of superior intelligence -- chicks dig the long ball.

So... serious question... Grobe was in year 7. He was .500. He had no MACC. He was reaching the end of his second full recruiting cycle. In 2000, we gacked away two games against teams we should have beaten 8 of 10 times in Akron and Miami, and we let an average Marshall team sneak away with the East. We missed our window, then he was out the door. No doubt, people were mostly happy with the direction of the program, but were you as loud then about NO MACC? Why or why not?

Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 11:02:25 AM

Fair question; start here.

Those Herd teams, as I recall, were not "average." Didn't they have some some years of undefeated. And, as I said then and still insist, I don't care who you are, if you go undefeated, you are a top 10 and probably top four team. It's incredibly difficult to do. THose were very, very good Herd teams.

We played Herd pretty tough. They were just better than us.

I was at Grobe's last home game in Athens against Herd. (I think that was his last game with us.) We thumped Herd but good. As I recall we won by about 10 and killed the last couple of minutes right at their goal line. Brinker was terrific that game.

We were poised to compete for the MAC title the next year. Then, Knorr.

Was there a MAC title game then...or just a regular season?

Grobe was dynamic and his teams were exciting. I know objectively, those are not relevant. But they are, they just are.

And the state of the program when Grobe entered was vastly inferior compared to when the current staff came on.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 11:55:30 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I definitely was not implying Herd was "average" in general, but they were average that season. I believe they were 6-6 or 7-5 going into the MAC title game. That was Leftwich's first year as a starter, and he was good, but hadn't yet established dominance. Good for them for stepping up and beating a favored WMU team. I agree, those were some great teams, and most years they were just better. but 2000 was their down year, just after Chad P graduated.

Brinker was awesome, then he had brain surgery. unfortunate for Knorr as his presence might have provided some stability while he ... uh... learned to coach.

We were poised to compete for a MAC title the next year... but it would have gone through Huntington against a much better Herd team. No Brinker. No guarantees.

I agree that Grobe was dynamic in some ways, and we had a system that was designed to make us competitive with what we had as we tried to build a program. but still very flawed. More frustrating sometimes than the inability to come back was how we would jump out to two- or three-score leads, but once the defenses caught up to what we were doing, we were dead in the water. We didn't adjust. and we certainly couldn't throw when there was any suspicion we might throw. Frankly it was just baffling to me how some teams looked like a deer in the headlights (Kansas State 97, EMU, pick a year, BG multiple times) trying to stop the option and others seemed to know everything we were going to do before we did it and completely smother it (Marshall 97, wisconsin 98, and several Miami teams)

I agree completely that Grobe inherited a very different situation... I hold him in the highest regard for bringing OHIO Football back from the dead. But by year 6 & 7, was it acceptable that Marshall was "just better" but not acceptable now that Toledo, NIU and those CMU teams were just better? All programs with far more tradition/history better facilities, more fertile recruiting ground? Do you see where I'm going? If we get healthy, we could go 10-2 or 11-1 and meet Toledo in the MAC title game. If we lose, I'm going to be PISSED! But after I cool down, I'll have to admit that Toledo was better because right now I think they're better and not much will change between now and December. Will that be evidence of coaching incompetence? If we go 9-3 and don't win the East, will that be?

L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 3:07:19 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

.... But by year 6 & 7, was it acceptable that Marshall was "just better" but not acceptable now that Toledo, NIU and those CMU teams were just better? ...

It's context, I think. Monroe was supportive of Solich through years 6 and 7. It was the middle of year 8 when he turned negative on Solich. I think what he's saying is that he was fine with what Grobe accomplished in years 1-7, but we can presume that if Monroe is consistent, he would have turned negative on Grobe in year 8. In fact, if you consider year 1 of Knorr to be an extension of Grobe, that's actually what happened.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 3:58:27 PM

Funny, L.C.

The point is correct that if Grobe had tailed off significantly for a prolonged period as a result of not reacting to circumstances and/or being boringly conservatively predictable, then I'd've been displeased.

Yes, DFC, we shall see how the rest of this year goes. After redhawk comes the heart of the schedule, of course.

L.C.
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Location: United States
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 4:42:19 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

;)
Funny yourself, Monroe. While I like the option, I've always heard the option being described as "boringly conservatively predictable", and never as "dynamic" or "crowd-pleasing", so I'm having a hard time figuring out if you are serious, or whether you are just having some fun on a Friday before the annual crushing of the Redchicken.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

oucs 1986
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Mason, OH
Post Count: 251

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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 6:31:25 PM

L.C. wrote:

Funny yourself, Monroe. While I like the option, I've always heard the option being described as "boringly conservatively predictable", and never as "dynamic" or "crowd-pleasing", so I'm having a hard time figuring out if you are serious, or whether you are just having some fun on a Friday before the annual crushing of the Redchicken.

Unlike some folks, I remember when the annual crushing of the Redchicken wasn't nearly so annual, and it was ugly for a long, long time.

Regardless of what people think about Coach Solich's ability to adjust mid-game, his conservatism, or just his old-fashioned work ethic, I for one recognize that Coach has built a PROGRAM, and not just a team, or a stepping stone to a job he really wants.

I'm glad he's here, and I do not miss, for one second, any of the Grobe years.

I enjoyed them then, but it was apparent it was unsustainable.

Whomever follows Coach Solich won't have nearly as much to do as Coach Solich did when he got here.

Peace,
-john

Last Edited: 10/9/2015 6:35:24 PM by oucs 1986

Go Bobcats!

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/9/2015 7:53:00 PM

Not kidding, L.C. The option under Grobe was generally terrific. The timing and movement and speed were beautiful. It didn't always work. But when it did it was clockwork.

I think that many on here will confirm that.

L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,073

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RE: MACtion strangeness

Posted: 10/10/2015 5:34:57 PM

I guess Akron took it personally that they couldn't get in the endzone last week. They put 40 on EMU in the first half, double what LSU managed against EMU a week ago. Meanwhile BG has about 700 yards offense and 63 points so far against U.Mass.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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