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Topic: RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Topic: RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

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perimeterpost
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 6:04:37 PM

SouthernCat wrote:

Maryland Bobcat wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

It will be almost impossible to recruit and win with Fordham's gym.

My wife's a Fordham grad, so I loosely follow their team. It's a tough call with regard to the gym. While historic it's been debated often about building something new. The program just has not been able to take any sort of big step since moving up from the Patriot League. That being said it is a step up in competition, exposure, academics, etc than Buffalo. How big a step up is debatable.

It's a multiple bid league so it is a step up from the MAC. Getting one of those bids when you are competing with teams with bigger facilities will be difficult.

Bids aren't given to conferences, they're given to teams. The reason CMU didn't get an at-large bid this year wasn't because "the MAC is a one bid league", it was because only 1 of CMU's OOC games was against a team with an RPI better than 274.

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SouthernCat
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 6:20:46 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

Maryland Bobcat wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

It will be almost impossible to recruit and win with Fordham's gym.

It's a multiple bid league so it is a step up from the MAC. Getting one of those bids when you are competing with teams with bigger facilities will be difficult.

No it's because the MAC is a one bid league. Davidson just as good of a resume last year but lost in the Socon tournament semifinals. This year they lost in the A-10 semifinals and got an at large bid. When was the last multiple bid year for the MAC? Some conferences you have to win the tournament to have a hope. The MAC is one.

perimeterpost
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 7:17:15 PM

SouthernCat wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

Maryland Bobcat wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

It will be almost impossible to recruit and win with Fordham's gym.

It's a multiple bid league so it is a step up from the MAC. Getting one of those bids when you are competing with teams with bigger facilities will be difficult.

Last year Davidson was 19-13 with an RPI of #129 and SOS of #193, they were 1-8 vs top 100 teams. They lost 3 games to teams with RPIs +200. This year Davidson was 23-8 with an RPI of #35 and SOS of #101, they were 9-5 vs top 100 teams. Only 2 losses vs RPI +100 teams, zero +200. In no way was Davidson's resume just as good last year as it is this year.

The last at-large bid in the MAC was Miami in 1999. They were 22-7 with an RPI of #21. They were 7-5 vs top 100 teams, including wins over #23 Kent St and #26 Tennessee. Their OOC included Tennessee, Notre Dame, Dayton, Boston U, Xavier, Green Bay and San Diego.

The reason the MAC wasn't a 1 bid league that year is because the MAC had 2 teams in the top 25 in RPI and both were worthy of a bid. It had nothing to do with a Wizard behind a curtain ordaining the MAC as a "multi-bid league" for that year.

Remember when Buffalo was "robbed" of an at-large bid in 2005 because the MAC was a one bid league? The real reason UB didn't get an at-large bid was because they were 22-9 with an RPI of #46 and were just 6-8 vs top 100 teams.

This was 2005 Buffalo's non conference schedule (with RPI)-
#13 UConn (L)
#96 Niagra (W)
#153 Fresno St (W)
#168 Farleigh Dickinson (W)
#202 Indiana State (W)
#226 Penn State (W)
#238 Colgate (W)
#272 Canisius (W)
#277 Elon (W)

Buffalo wasn't robbed, they scheduled a crappy OOC and lost 7 of 12 games against top 100 teams in their conference. The MAC didn't hold Buffalo back, there were plenty of opportunities to pick up quality wins in conference play, they just didn't execute.

The next time a MAC team gets an at-large bid it won't be because some mysterious force deemed the MAC a multi-bid league, it will be because a MAC team scheduled up in OOC and won a lot of games.

Last Edited: 3/24/2015 7:19:05 PM by perimeterpost

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Pataskala
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 9:17:40 PM

The MAC is historically a one-bid conference because the teams generally do lousy in OOC games vs top 50 RPI teams. The MAC was something like 0-6 against them this season, so the non-champs don't impress the committee. Buffalo was top 40 RPI and the second best MAC team was in the 70s. That doesn't get you anywhere.

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Tom Valentino
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:19:15 PM

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=12553903

ESPN reporting that Hurley is the front-runner for the DePaul job.

On Twitter: @1tomvalentino | TheNailPodcast.com

HeHateMiami
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:21:04 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

When did anyone say it was not a big enough step up? The prevailing thought on here was that we would lose John Groce the day the Illinois job opened up.

That's kind of what I remembered also amidst the flight reports and such.

More power to you guys if you stayed out of the threads weeks after Groce left complaining about how Ohio could be a premier job, that Illinois was at the bottom of the Big 10 and not worth bailing for with whom he had coming back, and blah blah blah, wah, wah, wah.

bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:39:48 PM

Looks like I will go to the bottom of the forum and jump back to about page 107 and start reading....just some off season rewind to occupy time.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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OU_Country
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:59:53 PM

Tom Valentino wrote:

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=12553903

ESPN reporting that Hurley is the front-runner for the DePaul job.

On one hand, you have to love this rumor, and the other, you hate it. The MAC has really begun to improve, and Hurley + UB are part of that. They also return a lot of talent, so of which could potentially transfer out.

bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/24/2015 11:09:50 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Tom Valentino wrote:

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=12553903

ESPN reporting that Hurley is the front-runner for the DePaul job.

I think it was evident from day 1 Bobby H was in Buffalo as a jump to a bigger job.

I think the Depaul job is a good one but question how Hurley recruits in Chicago. It is a different town and the City and Burbs expect a coach to come in a grease palms and be present at games and really recruit their city. Will be very interesting to see how this one pans out. The next hire could be very good,but IMHO can't get much worse than what Purnell did.

rpbobcat
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 7:15:18 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

Any rumours out there about saying good bye to Lavin and bringing Hurley to St Johns?

After St.John's performance in the Big East Tournament the story was that St. John's coach needed to win a couple of games in the NCAA Tourney to keep his job.

Didn't happen.

The papers out here are just saying that his job is in limbo.
Feeling is,they line up their hire, then fire.

Tom Valentino
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 9:48:01 AM

Whoa, stop the presses! Hurley is staying at Buffalo!

http://campuswatch.buffalonews.com/2015/03/25/ub-reaches-.../

Is it possible he just used the DePaul job as leverage to get more money from UB? Regardless, this is good news for the MAC.

On Twitter: @1tomvalentino | TheNailPodcast.com

Mike Johnson
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 9:56:58 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

Maryland Bobcat wrote:

SouthernCat wrote:

It will be almost impossible to recruit and win with Fordham's gym.

It's a multiple bid league so it is a step up from the MAC. Getting one of those bids when you are competing with teams with bigger facilities will be difficult.

You might want to read - or re-read - the posts in the thread titled Illusion of Power - Memory Disorder. Especially the last two posts in that thread.

Folks who don't believe that conference affiliation can trump team performance are perhaps thinking shallowly or in denial.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Tom Valentino
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 10:25:45 AM

Tom Valentino wrote:

And now this:
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/580735017531392000

I give up.

On Twitter: @1tomvalentino | TheNailPodcast.com

bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 11:20:06 AM

bad source

Last Edited: 3/25/2015 11:21:19 AM by bornacatfan

Pataskala
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 1:24:04 PM

There's still nothing solid with his situation there. According to the story, they have an "agreement in principle to renegotiate" which is about as tentative as it gets. They haven't begun negotiations, and it sounds like the start of negotiations may be a bit down the road. If he interviews at Depaul and they talk money either he'll have a nice bargaining chip with Buffalo or he'll know that Buffalo can't match the offer. Either way he'll come out ahead. And if Buffalo wants to keep him, they need to move quickly.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 1:28:36 PM

The number at Depaul is 2M. No way UB can match that. Question that has to haunt Hurley is whether he has the ability to recruit the Midwest and Chicago in general. Going up against the CPL, Burbs and greasy palms as well as Wojo, Collins and Groce for the same kids can't look that promising

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 3:55:50 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Agreed. But just to play devil's advocate, does Hurley have a similar personality to PJ Fleck at Western Michigan? In theory Fleck shouldn't be able to recruit the caliber of football players to WMU that he is but he seems to have a personality that meshes very well with recruits. Is Hurley similar to Fleck in that regard? If he is, maybe he can recruit in Chicago and the Midwest.

cc-cat
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 7:02:20 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

I remember others making the same point about groce when he was looking at Illinois. And you made the point that any good coach feels he can succeed anywhere. That still applies. I don't see Hurley being afraid of Chicago. If he is he needs to get out of his profession.

bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 7:18:33 PM

cc-cat wrote:

I still stand by that statement ....problem is feeling you can succeed and actually doing it are 2 different things.

If Hurley is going to be able to pull a Rod Strickland from Jersey or Corbin from SC to Chicago that's fine but pulling in the Agguires, Corzines and Cummins to flush out the roster will be the challenge. I think he is better built to build on the East Coast or Southeast. As to Groce, Midwest guy that had recruited Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois and specifically Chicago. If he is not afraid he does not have all the info IMHO. That goes for any coach including Groce.

YOu may have got that as a basketball junkie that has ties back to my gramps and pops talking about George Mikan and living in CHicago in the 70s and 80s I want Depaul to do well.

OUVan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/25/2015 11:11:24 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

It's cause and effect though. The bigger conferences have about five times the opportunities to pad their resume because they consistently play better teams during conference season. And there may have been a number of mids that got shafted in the last ten years but none of them were MAC teams.

The MAC could easily get multiple bids if one or more teams would put an at-large resume together. To do that you have to absolutely kick butt in the OOC portion of the schedule and/or absolutely dominate the regular season. The MVC is not a multiple bid league. They just happen to have two very, very, very good teams this year. They also stepped up their basketball funding 20 years ago and put considerable distance between the two. The MAC has only recently, led by us, stepped up its funding to try to compete again. The results are starting to show.

Mike Johnson
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/26/2015 12:18:38 PM

OUVan wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

You refer to "bigger conferences" and cite their advantage in playing each other. The relevant question: How do we know they are bigger or stronger since they lard their schedule with basketball's weaklings and virtually always at home? In other words, their non-conference wins are a poor indicator of actual strength. That is manifested perennially in the NCAA tournament when those "stronger" schools lose their home court advantage and have to play the kind of teams they avoid during regular season non-conference play. We saw that this year as to the Big 12 and Big 10. Texas, Baylor, OK State and Kansas all fell early. In the Big 10, 5 of its 6 at-large teams failed to escape the first weekend.

Do we expect any non-conf scheduling changes among the "bigger conferences?" Do we expect them to take on reasonably challenging non-conf schedules - which would be more accurate indications of strength? Not unless mandated by the NCAA. Do we expect Matta to forego playing at home against Campbell, High Point, etc? Do we expect Self to schedule Wichita State which it had avoided since 1993?

Despite NCAA Selection Committee protestations to the contrary, it remains abundantly clear that conference affiliation often trumps individual team performance.

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bornacatfan
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/26/2015 1:37:01 PM

interesting reading regarding the regarding of conferences and their strength

http://basketballpredictions.blogspot.com/2015/03/day-6-o...

OU_Country
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/26/2015 4:44:09 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

C Money wrote:

Arkley retweeted something about Senderoff being a candidate for Fordham. Kent would be rolling in buyout cash.

Wow. I guess he was an assistant there before, but I don't know why anyone would want a career underachiever who's essentially won nothing and has a sketchy ethical past.

A refresher: http://www.insidethehall.com/2008/02/13/summary-of-ncaa-a.../

For a guy who could easily have been fired at Kent prior to the performance of this year's team, getting an A-10 job as a reward would be incredible.

Look no farther than the Marshall coaching situation to realize nothing is impossible. ;)

Ted Thompson
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/29/2015 10:05:47 AM

Chicago Tribune reported that Hurley was to have interviewed yesterday and Bryce Drew today. Hurley was seen at O'Hare Airport yesterday.

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Bobby Hurley's next stop ..

Posted: 3/29/2015 5:34:07 PM

Sounds like Depaul is hiring Leitao and St. Johns is hiring Chris Mullin. Still a ton of openings out there, but its looking more likely that Hurley will be back at Buffalo next year.

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