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Topic: RE: Bass exposed

Topic: RE: Bass exposed

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Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/22/2014 12:01:32 PM

Guys, we all want the kid and the team to succeed. I am sure the coaches do too. But, as an example, nobody threw toward Carrie last year because he was the BEST corner on the team and he shut down most receivers. You do NOT target the best corner unless your playmakers can make plays vs. that corner. Last year and this year this young man has been targeted/exposed. I think whoever said some help over the top is probably in order is absolutely correct. It is really pretty simple, just don't put the kid on an island in situations where he is more apt to fail than succeed. Give him sone help over the top once in a while. If they are giving him help, then shame on the safeties who are not getting over there to cover. If they aren't then shame on this staff.

My old record, OHIO NEEDS MORE AND BETTER PLAYMAKERS on both sides of the ball.

BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,488

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/22/2014 1:15:32 PM

Casper71 wrote:

You do NOT target the best corner, if he is a legitimate shutdown corner. No one ever said Bass was the next D. Revis, or even T. Carrie, but he is the best corner on this team. And many schemes and formations will or can take away safety over the top help. Some on here want to take away every single thing an offense does, that is not possible, not unless you are playing the "Sister Mary's Soup Kitchen". The other team will have some success.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,071

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/22/2014 2:44:45 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Exactly. There will be times when the defense is in a scheme where the corner will have deep help, and times he doesn't. Sometimes he will be playing essentially man on man, and when that happens, he more than likely won't have deep help. Other times he will be playing a shallow zone, and then he will have a safety behind him, but has other things he needs to be aware of.

Now is a great time to watch again, and understand this video, made by a Kentucky fan, showing a classic play that was well executed by Kent state:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FPkkHlQ8Vk&list=UUCRUc_P...

Note the pass pattern - the outside receiver goes deep, which an inside receiver runs an out pattern into the same area. How should this be covered? There are two basic ways:
1. Cover-2 - The video shows Ohio attempting to cover this with a Cover-2 defense. The corner has the primary responsibility of a shallow zone. Therefore, when he sees the other receiver entering his zone, he has to drop off the wide guy, and come back to cover the new man coming into his zone. His deep help, the safety, needs to get over to cover the wide receiver. Against this defense, the offense will try to hit the wideout in that momentary gap between when the corner drops off the wideout, and when the safety gets over to cover him. Kent State does a very nice job of doing that in this play.
2. Man coverage - With man coverage, the corner will attempt to stick like glue to the wideout. He probably won't have deep help, but he hopefully won't need it because he no longer needs to worry about someone else coming into his zone. What happens to the second receiver? The OLB needs to get out and cover him. Note that Idaho was very effective against Ohio with that exact play. They sent a receiver deep, and Bass/Wells went with him, then threw to the second receiver running an out pattern, who was usually quite open.

Now, getting back to Billy's point, there is no such thing as a perfect defense, nor a perfect defender. If there was, every team would run it, (and every fan would complain about his/her team's offense.) Sometimes the other team is just going to to a great job, and they are going to have a big play. Just like Ohio's offense will sometimes run a great play, sometimes the other team will, too. Then you just need to give them credit, and do it right back at them.

As for Bass, I agree that if there was someone better, the coaches would be playing him. I think Bass did a great job in Cover-2 coverage, and maybe he is struggling a bit this year, at times, when he has more man-on-man coverage, but I'm not going to get down on him.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 12:20:46 AM

It is possible to love the staff, yet criticize the play-calling and schemes.

Through stupd cow, I don't think that there was too much complaining about the D. D was pretty splendid through kents and Kentucky. Then stupd cow was too tough, but we never quit.

I still think that Idaho was a step down in opponent--but their qb had all day to throw to wide open receivers for the most part. We're better than that.

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,071

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 12:30:12 AM

By the way, if you watch the highlights of the game, you'll notice that the first highlight, Cochran's long catch to begin the 2d half, is Ohio running the same play. Idaho uses the second defense - the corner is on Cochran man on man, with no deep help, while an OLB comes out to cover Mangen. There was nothing wrong with Idaho's defense; Ohio just executed, and got a big play.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

100%Cat
General User

Member Since: 1/17/2013
Post Count: 2,491

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 8:39:46 AM

L.C. wrote:

I understand where you are coming from on this, but how many times do you need to see the same guy victimized over and over to start wondering if it's more than just "the offense made a play?"

GoCats105
General User

Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,929

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 8:48:27 AM

100%Cat wrote:

L.C. wrote:

I understand where you are coming from on this, but how many times do you need to see the same guy victimized over and over to start wondering if it's more than just "the offense made a play?"

No kidding. In the very same highlights, Idaho throws a deep post over the right hash and Bass is burned for a TD. He was 2-3 strides behind the receiver. Granted I can't see the entire play other than ball from QB to WR, so it could be busted coverage or maybe Bass slipped.

Last Edited: 9/23/2014 8:50:41 AM by GoCats105

C Money
General User

Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 8:54:36 AM

It seems that a lot of the times Bass has been beaten deep, the problem has been early in the play...either whiffing on a jam, slipping, or biting on a stop-and-go.

If that's a problem with his technique, the coaches either need to work on that with him or find someone without the technique issues. If that's a skill/focus problem, then the coaches need to find someone without the problem or adjust the scheme to compensate.

Every team we play the rest of the season is going to go after Bass deep. One way or another, we need to adjust and fix the problem. The nightmare scenario is we head into the last week of the season needing what should be an easy win to clinch the East, only to watch a much-improved Fiami team burn us deep again and again. IMO, Kent State in 2010 is the worst loss of the Solich era, and the scenario I just described would be far and away worse than that.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,071

Status: Offline

RE: Bass exposed

Posted: 9/23/2014 11:06:59 AM

C Money wrote:

All the corners are playing a different technique this year. In the past they played a cover-2, where they played well off the receiver because they were in zone coverage, and had to watch their reads, not focus on a single receiver. This year they are in press coverage most of the time, meaning they are essentially playing man on man, and so they start up close to the receiver, jam him, and then attempt to stick with him.

I'm sure that Bass is working hard on technique, and hopefully he will improve as the season goes along. I'm also sure that the coaches are aware of who they have available to play, and feel that Bass is the best that they have right now. They haven't shown any reluctance to play true freshmen, when those were better than the other players. In fact, the new #2 behind him on the depth chart this week is Curtis Brunson, a true freshman. Maybe we'll see more of him this week. Also, they did recruit a JUCO Cornerback, Brett Layton, but he has been hurt. Perhaps at some point this season he will be available to play.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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