Also, why is it important OHIO's freshman class stats compete with those of others in the state? I would argue that the metric is too watered down to have any value as an indicator for the non-elite universities (Ivy League et al).
How would you like the graduating Ohio University student to be quantified? Average income after 5 years, 10 years? Some objective attempt at measuring happiness? Willing to come back for Homecoming? Employment in the field they studied at OU twenty years later?
Last Edited: 4/21/2014 2:16:40 PM by The Situation
Last Edited: 4/21/2014 2:46:59 PM by OUPride
Last Edited: 4/21/2014 3:21:12 PM by OUPride
We'll based on these two links I'd say that 10,000 was the size of the 2013 undergraduate class at Ohio State. Graduate students added in excess to that number.
www.osu.edu/features/2013/spring-commencement-2013.html www.dispatch.com//content/stories/local/2013/02/20/Obama-to-give-Ohio-State-commencement-speech.html The reported incoming freshman class at Ohio State was 6,607 in 2009 (6,041 in 2008).
Using ball park numbers, at least 30% of graduates from Ohio State this year did not enroll as freshman at Ohio State. Sure a few may have been accepted originally and transferred in later; some may very well have similar qualifications as the freshman stats they're touting. But I believe you are being disingenuous if you believe the transfers do not negatively, and significantly, affect the freshman metric you've been describing.
Is the dilution of the incoming freshman class to this extreme comparable to any other universities in the state?
The advertisement OSU and Harvard are using for leverage is the same. When Harvard says, "Look at my Freshman class as an indication of the academic strength of our student body", their statement holds weight because their student body is uniform (the Harvard alums you run into on the street in the working world are the alumns who came as freshman to the main campus with a significantly high degree of certainty). Admittedly I don't know what the difference is between Harvard and OSU relative to Freshman through Senior year continuity, but that is my hypothesis.
When Ohio State tries to make the claim, "Look at my Freshman class as an indication of the academic strength of our student body", their statement is invalid in my eyes, because 30% of their product is diluted with an unknown population. Until they release the high school qualifications of these transfers and adjust the incoming freshman class accordingly, Ohio State is being duplicitous.
Are other universities misleading the public with freshman class stats? Sure. But there may not be a bigger offender on the market than Ohio State.
How much of an advantage does this manipulation give Ohio State (publications, funding, etc)?
The reason I sit next to peers at work with degrees from OSU, Purdue, Penn State, and Cinci is because the disparity in intelligence is not what the person with casual interest thinks.
Well you don't have "this" straight. I'm not questioning the accuracy of Ohio State's data, or any other school's data for that matter. There is no a standard method for reporting incoming freshman metrics. I'm fairly certain, relative to each school's own subjective criteria for incoming freshman, the data is quite accurate in almost all cases. My issue here is the substantial gain in notoriety Ohio State achieves by strategically withholding information. I don't have the data, but the implications are quite clear, if you fail to report 30% of your (very likely) least qualified graduates, you're misleading the market about your actual value. If Ohio State was a publicly traded company, they'd be the Enron of freshman metrics. Ohio University would probably be in the agriculture sector and the scale of their crime is similar to failing to report a couple tons of corn seed to save a little on their taxes this year.
If 30% of Ohio University (Athens campus) graduates joined after freshman year, the freshman metric for 30+ ACT scores would jump from 8% to 11%. By Ohio State withholding information on their transfers, that 30+ ACT score stat jumps from somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% to 38%. Billy I'm sure you've used a similar "everybody withholds information" line to defend Bernie Madoff. <sarcasm>
Are you going to address my rebuttal? Because your examples don't impress me.
The only reason I said "me" is because I don't speak for anyone here but myself.
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