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Topic: RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Topic: RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

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ohio9704
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:00:26 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I don't follow you at all, 9704. This is Div. I basketball. This is what happens.

I suppose you were saying "Thanks John Groce" when we lost a couple of his recruits.

Completely disagree with your mindset.

JC treated this program like a rent by the hour cheap hotel and that is what he recruited with JUCO recruits. Seven players now on scholarship, with one recruit still thinking. I don't like my program treated like a cheap rent by the hour hotel where you briefly do your business and leave. JG actually achieved something and left, then left a program full of players. JC, not at all.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:13:55 PM

9704, I agree that it could be argued that JC pursued a rather risky recruiting strategy. This recruiting class is scattered geographically and the recruiting ties were with certain assistants who are no longer in the program. Some truth to your contention that this put us at risk of having a depleted roster if JC left.

Saul Phillips will establish a different recruiting strategy that likely will leave the roster in good shape if and when Coach Phillips accepts another job. And I wouldn't be surprised if our next coach comes from within our own staff, which will also help with roster continuity.

bobcat28
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:23:24 PM

Calling it - this kid is going to have academic problems wherever he lands.

colobobcat66
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:52:39 PM

bobcat28 wrote:

Calling it - this kid is going to have academic problems wherever he lands.

You may be right, but it's funny how all the recruits end up having all these problems after they are gone.

allen
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:03:21 PM

Calling it - this kid is going to have academic problems wherever he lands.

This statement is childish. I hope all these recruits do well in the future including Wigginton. He will be the biggest lost.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

allen
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:09:49 PM

This will be the biggest lost, he reminded me of Mychal Green.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Jerry86
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:19:00 PM

ohio9704 wrote:

Again, thank you JC.

PLEASE ... quit posting such uninformed comments.

So if JC had NEVER recruited this kid you'd be happy? Your logic (or lack thereof) eludes me and I suspect MANY others. But keep posting ... I enjoy a good laugh on a Friday evening.

Jerry86
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:21:31 PM

ohio9704 wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Yeah, right. Mo is a complete dud too, right? LOL

And bringing in Bean was a bust too?

Jerry86
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:26:45 PM

ohio9704 wrote:

Again, thank you JC.

Further, this is not about you .. and your blaming someone else (JC). This is about some 18-20 year old 'kids' deciding where the best fit is as far as furthering their college career, both on the court and academically. Saul had his opportunity to 'sell' the 3 who apparently have decided to consider other opportunities. What I conlude from all this is that JC was in fact a good salesman. So why you want to attack him is illogical.

ohio9704
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:50:30 PM

was gift wrapped an NCAA sweet 16 team and never returned to tourney. Keith Dambrot made him his female dog. leaves program with only 7 players under scholarship and maybe one still coming. treated our program like a rent by the hour do your business and leave hotel. I guess i respect this program more then you.

OU_Country
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 11:24:03 PM

ohio9704 wrote:

When are we going to realize that this gift wrapped Sweet 16 team had a nice run, but wasn't as good as the Sweet 16 season led us to think they were?

Ryan Carey
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/25/2014 11:37:35 PM

Also, when are we going to realize that JC wasn't THE coach that recruited these players to Ohio to begin with...the lead recruiter was an assistant, one who may not have been at Ohio next year, even if JC had stayed.

Also, also, when are we going to realize the odds of JG returning to the NCAA tournament following the sweet 16 run are pretty close to the same odds that JC would have gotten the team to the same spot. How soon people forget it took a desperation, shot clock running down, lucky PRAYER of a 3 pointer by DJ to put us in position to win the MAC Championship game. Not to mention Akron had an excellent chance to win at the buzzer. Not to mention the better than average shooting nights of Nick and Walt to keep u in the games enough to advance to the sweet 16. Luck and good shooting makes a Cinderella, it was awesome to have both and make that run, but I find it highly unlikely it would have been repeated.

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 11:50:01 PM by Ryan Carey

Ryan M. Carey
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Flomo-genized
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 7:42:04 AM

Jeff,

There is a big difference between Groce leaving us with 12 scholarship players returning after a 4 year stint, and JC leaving us in a position where we have 5 scholarships to fill in late-April, after a 2 year stint. Groce left the cupboard full. JC left us with zero returning minutes at the 2 and 3. Huge difference, in my opinion.

I understand why people don't fault JC for leaving, even though I personally disagree. What I don't understand is why some people (not necesarily you) think that JC shouldn't be criticized for an inherently selfish (even if arguably understandable) act, but then become indignant when others selfishly complain about the utterly predictable state he left our program in. Again, JC has largely derailed much of the momentum we had from the Sweet Sixteen run. I think we have a right to be upset about that, even if some don't fault him personally for taking the BC job.

Last Edited: 4/26/2014 8:53:46 AM by Flomo-genized

Jeff McKinney
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:13:56 AM

Flomo-genized wrote:

See my above post where I acknowledge that the JC staff's recruiting strategy and the timing of JC's departure and the unexpected nature of his departure have created significant roster problems for next year. Now it's up to the Coach Phillips staff to sort it out and put together a workable roster for next year. JC definitely vulnerable to criticism on that level.

OTOH, can you and other JC opponents acknowledge that 49 wins over two seasons is a solid performance, despite no NCAA wins in that time? The JC staff deserves some credit for winning this year despite the heavy graduation losses and some injury issues. Also, there was noticeable improvement and development of individual players such as Kellogg, Campbell and Setty.

perimeterpost
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:39:14 AM

Here's what JC inherited by class-

2013- 4 (Cooper, Offutt, Keely, Baltic)
2014- 4 (Kellogg, Smith, Johnson, Hall)
2015- 2 (Taylor, Green*)
2016- 0
open- 3

*Green never played for Groce, played just 64 minutes for JC.

And here's what SP inherited by class-

2015- 3 (Taylor, NDour, Willis)
2016- 1 (Setty)
2017- 2 (Campbell, Monpremier)
2018- 2 (Harley, Crute)
open- 5

JC's biggest recruiting need on day 1 was beefing up the '15 and '16 classes. This is a mark against Groce for leaving us that unbalanced. If JC doesn't fix Groce's error we're starting next year with Stevie Taylor and a bunch of freshmen and sophomores. He used his 3 open scholarships to add transfers to the '15 and '16 class (Willis, Setty) and a JUCO to the '14 class (Wilkins). The following year NDour is added to the '15 class. So basically JC took Stevie Taylor and 3 open scholarships and turned it into Stevie, Bean, Setty and NDour. And if he wasn't totally insane Rio Adams would have been in there as well. I don't think JC could have done a better job addressing the problem he inherited from Groce than what he did.

That leaves the '17 and '18 classes. With 4 openings for '17 I though JC did a decent job. No need for a PG yet and with a strong SG like Wingfield this was a good class. The '18 class had just 2 (Crute and Owens) as the other 2 scholarships went to the '16 class. Again, not a bad move with only 1 other player in that class.

If JC doesn't leave this is what we look like next year

2015- 3 (Taylor, NDour, Willis)
2016- 3 (Setty, Wigginton, Morillo)
2017- 2 (Campbell, Monpremier)
2018- 3 (Harley, Crute, Owens)
open- 2

That's a very balanced roster, the only concern, and its a big one, is no PG in the '18 class. With a PG and a healthy Wingfield (unfortunate) this is a rock solid roster, but even with 11 and 2 open its not a concern.

John Groce left our roster in worse shape than Jim Christian did, the only difference is Groce only had 1 recruit that could back out. If Groce had done a better job at balancing the roster he would have left more openings too.

Time to move on...

EDIT: updated w/Harley in correct class. h/t bigtilly

Last Edited: 4/26/2014 2:55:24 PM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:45:46 AM

Perimeter, that's good analysis.

Flomo-genized
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:56:23 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I don't think I've ever criticized Christian's coaching. I thought he was an odd choice following Groce, to be sure, but I also think he did about the best he could have with the hand he was dealt. I do think Groce would have gotten more out of the 2012-13 team (from a post-season perspective, at least), as Christian never seemed to be a good fit with that group. But I thought he did a very nice job this year given the injury situation, especially down the stretch, aside from a couple games we really should have won earlier in the season (BG & Akron at home, in particular). Although I did find the unevenness of our play within the course of a game this year to be a bit perplexing...

At the end of the day, though, the program is undeniably in worse shape now than when Christian took over two years ago. If I'd told you two years go we'd already be on our second coach post-Groce, that we wouldn't have returned to the NCAA Tournament yet, and that wewould be sitting here on April 26th with five open scholarships and no returning wing players, would anyone have signed up for that? That in no way was a successful maximization of our Sweet Sixteen run. Even the 2013 regular season title comes with a huge asterisk given that we were swept by Akron and only tied them because Abreu was arrested for drug trafficking a day or two before their final regular season game.

Christian is a very good coach. He did some good things here. But he screwed us over royally when it was all said and done. Some don't fault him for that. I do. Reasonable minds can differ, I guess. My only disagreement here is with those who suggest that this was just a normal occurrence and one that we should just be content with. Coaches rarely leave after two years with as little post-season success as Christian, or leave the program in the shape JC did.

No one would have signed up for this two years ago, so we have a right to be disappointed today.

Flomo-genized
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 12:01:30 PM

JC may have had the roster in good shape had he stayed (although I was never comfortable with his reliance on Jucos myself), but once he left it was all but a foregone conclusion that this recruiting class would fall apart. Therefore, I disagree with the conclusion; Saul Phillips is inheriting a much worse roster than JC did, and it's not even close.

Edit: Another way to look at it is even if Groce left us with some longer term roster issues, his replacement had plenty of time to patch that up. Christian has left us in a position that we need to scramble to sign at least 2 wings next year just to be competitive. Huge difference.

Last Edited: 4/26/2014 1:20:36 PM by Flomo-genized

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 12:18:45 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

2015- 3 (Taylor, NDour, Willis)
2016- 3 (Setty, Wigginton, Morillo)
2017- 3 (Campbell, Monpremier, Harley)
2018- 2 (Crute, Owens)
open- 2

That's a very balanced roster, the only concern, and its a big one, is no PG in the '18 class. With a PG and a healthy Wingfield (unfortunate) this is a rock solid roster, but even with 11 and 2 open its not a concern.

John Groce left our roster in worse shape than Jim Christian did, the only difference is Groce only had 1 recruit that could back out. If Groce had done a better job at balancing the roster he would have left more openings too.

Time to move on...

Harley actually belongs on the 2018 line now with Crute. And also Groce may have only lost 1 signed player, but he lost two additional verbals (Evan Bradds and Anthony Allen).

I don't think having unbalanced classes is a big deal at all. In fact Saul may want unbalanced classes as he did at NDSU. They had 6 seniors this past year. It means a slower rebuild, but a potentially higher payoff every 3-4 years.

colobobcat66
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 1:18:40 PM

Recruiting and keeping players is a crap shoot. You can try all you want to get balanced classes, but I'm guessing there are way too many factors that keep you from keeping those balanced classes.
There are hundreds of transfers every year, and we have had our share of those, so that factor alone can screw up the best laid plans.

ohio9704
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 7:43:15 PM

To Buffalo! Cant believe no restrictions were placed on this.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 8:08:26 PM

ohio9704 wrote:

To Buffalo! Cant believe no restrictions were placed on this.

I guess he prefers the team on the losing end of seven of the last eight head-to-head.

colobobcat66
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 9:45:38 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

ohio9704 wrote:

To Buffalo! Cant believe no restrictions were placed on this.

I guess he prefers the team on the losing end of seven of the last eight head-to-head.

looks like he's joining a good looking class on paper

Jerry86
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:29:24 PM

Flomo-genized wrote:

I do think Groce would have gotten more out of the 2012-13 team (from a post-season perspective, at least), as Christian never seemed to be a good fit with that group. But I thought he did a very nice job this year given the injury situation, especially down the stretch, aside from a couple games we really should have won earlier in the season (BG & Akron at home, in particular). Although I did find the unevenness of our play within the course of a game this year to be a bit perplexing...

At the end of the day, though, the program is undeniably in worse shape now than when Christian took over two years ago. If I'd told you two years go we'd already be on our second coach post-Groce, that we wouldn't have returned to the NCAA Tournament yet, and that wewould be sitting here on April 26th with five open scholarships and no returning wing players, would anyone have signed up for that? That in no way was a successful maximization of our Sweet Sixteen run. Even the 2013 regular season title comes with a huge asterisk given that we were swept by Akron and only tied them because Abreu was arrested for drug trafficking a day or two before their final regular season game.

But he (Christian) screwed us over royally when it was all said and done. Some don't fault him for that. I do. My only disagreement here is with those who suggest that this was just a normal occurrence and one that we should just be content with. Coaches rarely leave after two years with as little post-season success as Christian, or leave the program in the shape JC did.

I'll start in the top paragraph ... so JC lost some games he should have won. So did Groce, plenty, especially in MAC play.

You guys who want to blame JC for recruits now leaving seem to miss at least one point ... implicitly, you're suggesting that they were good recruits, otherwise you'd not be complaining about them leaving. So he apparently can recruit? Or is it only if they decide to de-commit that he's a bad guy? Last, is it the fault of JC that some guys from the carryover group he inherited decided to not show up and play at times?

Your last paragraph suggests you're in complete complete denial. A chance to triple ones salary? Hmm, 99.9 out of 100 would do so. Next, a chance to coach in Boston. Hmm, JC played at Boston University. Last, ACC vs. MAC. Done deal for anyone who aspires to a more prestigious position.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: 2014 6'6" SF Rodell Wigginton (JUCO) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 4/27/2014 12:01:45 AM

I...just...don't...get it. I know a lot goes into these decisions but how can you run to Buffalo when you're all set for Athens? I question your sanity.

Then consider the recent successes of the two programs, and the head to head results...and it just doesn't make sense. The Big Ten equivalent would be a recruit getting out of a NLI to Michigan so he can go to Purdue.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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