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Topic:  Grayshirts

Topic:  Grayshirts
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 5:47:19 PM 
Per Arkley

Jason Arkley ‏@JasonAmessenger 5m5 minutes ago

4 grayshirts: Adam and Ryan Luehrman (Athens, TEs), PK Louie Zervos (Tarpon Springs, Fla.) and WR Matt Seymour (New Westminster, B.C.)

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 5:51:10 PM 
Two quick question on greyshirts. Bouncing on the internet, it appears greyshirts are not allowed to practice with the team, in essence are not part of the team for the fall semester. So these guys are not playing or practicing until spring ball 2016. Is this correct?

Shame they can not spend 15 months working on technique with position coaches.

Question 2 - from both player and institution. How binding are greyshirts?
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OUs LONG Driver
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 9:41:46 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
Two quick question on greyshirts. Bouncing on the internet, it appears greyshirts are not allowed to practice with the team, in essence are not part of the team for the fall semester. So these guys are not playing or practicing until spring ball 2016. Is this correct?

Shame they can not spend 15 months working on technique with position coaches.

Question 2 - from both player and institution. How binding are greyshirts?



CC-Cat i think your timeline is off on Question #1. Most recruits will report at the beginning of Fall Camp (usually late July or early August I think). Grayshirts will be on campus taking a partial class load for Fall Semester, but not allowed to work out with the team, practice with the team, eat with the team, etc. However, I don't believe they are barred from using the facilities (AKA weight room). They will be part of the team starting January 1 and will enroll full time at the university at that time. They are essentially delayed 5 months from the rest of the recruiting class but have alreaddy had a transition period to college life and the weight room. They also maintain their 5 years to play 4 starting the following year because of that delay. This is why they count against the 2016 recruiting class and not 2015. In the end they actually will have the opportunity to spend more time in the program than the rest of this year's recruits. Programs generally only offer grayshirt opportunities who are truly wanted, but simply don't have the space right now within the scholarship limits. This is not a Preferred walk-on type situation where you are taking a flyer, the coaches must believe these 4 are 100% worthy of the scholarships.


Can't help you on Question #2, but it can't be any more binding than the 1 year scholarships given to every other player.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 11:27:00 PM 
Thanks, yea, my 15 months was from now, not the summer period (closer to your 5 months). There are restrictions re: coaching time, so that is why I picked next spring ball.

Next question can a greyshirt simultaneously redshirt? In essence, can these guys pay their own way next fall. Walk on the team. Practice, but not play. And therefore maintain 4 years of eligibility?

Last Edited: 2/4/2015 11:28:14 PM by cc-cat
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 11:38:36 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
...Next question can a greyshirt simultaneously redshirt? In essence, can these guys pay their own way next fall. Walk on the team. Practice, but not play. And therefore maintain 4 years of eligibility?

Why would they? With a grayshirt they actually get 6 to play 4. Since they are a part time student the first fall, their 5 year clock doesn't start running, so they can still redshirt in 2016 if it is helpful.

For these 4, the grayshirt works well, for different reasons. For the twins it gives them extra time to fill out. For Seymour, it helps because the BC school calendar is odd, and if you recall, Irons didn't arrive until very late. For Zervos, his clock doesn't start running until Yaz is gone, and in fact, he could redshirt in 2016 and allow Amicone to kick, if that becomes appropriate.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 11:46:27 PM 
L.C. wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
...Next question can a greyshirt simultaneously redshirt? In essence, can these guys pay their own way next fall. Walk on the team. Practice, but not play. And therefore maintain 4 years of eligibility?

Why would they? With a grayshirt they actually get 6 to play 4. Since they are a part time student the first fall, their 5 year clock doesn't start running, so they can still redshirt in 2016 if it is helpful.

For these 4, the grayshirt works well, for different reasons. For the twins it gives them extra time to fill out. For Seymour, it helps because the BC school calendar is odd, and if you recall, Irons didn't arrive until very late. For Zervos, his clock doesn't start running until Yaz is gone, and in fact, he could redshirt in 2016 and allow Amicone to kick, if that becomes appropriate.



+1 the real purpose is the 6 for 4
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 11:46:43 PM 
The reason why is that they could get practice time in next fall - work with position coaches. For the twins especially, it would allow them to learn new positions.

While they have 6 years to complete 4, I'd be interested to know how many greyshirts actually also end up taking a redshirt (this the 6 years). My gut says few do, but I could be way wrong.

Again, all this is dependent on greyshirts NOT being allowed to participate in practice - which I am still assuming is the rule.

Last Edited: 2/4/2015 11:53:21 PM by cc-cat
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/4/2015 11:54:13 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
The reason why is that they could get practice time in next fall - work with position coaches. For the twins especially, it would allow them to learn new positions.

While they have 6 years to complete 4, I'd be interested to know how many greyshirts actually also end up taking a redshirt (this the 6 years). My gut says few do, but I could be way wrong.


Many do, and if not part of the team, the cannot work with the strength coaches and such. Also, there is the matter of finances, as they are on their "own" dime!
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 12:01:24 AM 
Fiance issue is not a factor in the discussion as they are on their own dime in each scenario. I'm looking for stats that would better define how many really take the 6th year. We'll see. Ability to work with coaches is why I'd consider the "joint year."

Last Edited: 2/5/2015 12:03:29 AM by cc-cat
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 8:46:51 AM 
Note that they actually end up with more total time working with the coaches as a grayshirt, taking 6 years to play 4. If they start as a walkon in the fall, and use their redshirt as you suggest, they would end up working with the coaches five years, including one full year before they were eligible to play as redshirt Freshmen in Fall 2016. If they wait until the following Spring to start, and then redshirt in 2016, they get to work with the coaches a total of 5 1/2 years, including 1 1/2 years with the coaches before they were eligible to play as redshirt Freshmen in Fall of 2017.

It can also a big advantage from an academic standpoint. As grayshirts they get to spend their first Semester adjusting to college academics with a partial schedule of classes, and without the pressures of constant practice, meetings, and games. Then, in the end they get an extra 1/2 year of scholarship money. In a part-time schedule for one semester, and then 5 1/2 years of full schedules, if they work at it, they might be able to get not only an undergraduate degree, but a Master's degree as well.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 9:14:21 AM 
Question, lets say the clock for them starts January 1st of 2016 but we happen to play in an after new years bowl game (in January) then how does that work? Obviously, you wouldn't expect a greyshirt to have the skills to even contribute to a team nearing a bowl game and coaches may not even want to throw them into practice at that point... Just curious.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Joe McKinley
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 9:21:07 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Question, lets say the clock for them starts January 1st of 2016 but we happen to play in an after new years bowl game (in January) then how does that work? Obviously, you wouldn't expect a greyshirt to have the skills to even contribute to a team nearing a bowl game and coaches may not even want to throw them into practice at that point... Just curious.


I don't think the semester starts until the second Monday in January. I think there is only one football game left at that point. If we're in that one, it's the best possible problem to have, yes?
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 9:30:29 AM 
Joe McKinley wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Question, lets say the clock for them starts January 1st of 2016 but we happen to play in an after new years bowl game (in January) then how does that work? Obviously, you wouldn't expect a greyshirt to have the skills to even contribute to a team nearing a bowl game and coaches may not even want to throw them into practice at that point... Just curious.


I don't think the semester starts until the second Monday in January. I think there is only one football game left at that point. If we're in that one, it's the best possible problem to have, yes?

I didn't even consider when the semester actually started... Absolutely agree, that is an ideal problem to have.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 10:56:24 AM 
LC - I completely understand the concept and the math. Also appreciate that a redshirt must be agreed upon by both player and program. Question still remains, how many greyshirts also end up taking a redshirt as well (thus maximizing the math)? Easy to say "many" but I question that answer. Those that do probably do so for injury reasons (and would stand a chance of being granted a 6th year anyway). You do a ton of research (much appreciated) so I'm not asking you to do so here. If you can supply the names of those players at Ohio that have greyshirted, I will dig to see how they progressed through the program. Since the greyshirt concept is relatively new, the numbers may be small (and not fully reached fruition), so if there is a site to identify those throughout the MAC and/or other schools let me know.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 11:24:07 AM 
I'm sorry that I can't really answer your question. Grayshirts are relatively new, and while growing, still aren't all that common. From memory, I can't recall Ohio ever actually using one before. They tried, last year, with Pierce Royster, but he ended up at Wyoming instead. That, apparently, is fairly common: when a school offers a grayshirt instead of an immediate scholarship the kids often will not accept it, and go elsewhere.

I did a quick search, and found this story:
http://tinyurl.com/ocq7oru
It describes some Michigan State experiences with grayshirts. One is a 2015 recruit, Chewins, who had previously committed to Miami, but who flipped to Michigan State as a grayshirt. He is "only" 6-7 237, and the extra year will give him more time to bulk up to play Offensive Tackle. The other grayshirt mentioned in the article is Jack Conklin, who grayshirted, then redshirted his first year, and now is a projected high draft choice at Offensive Tackle.

Given that Ohio has never used grayshirts before, that I know of, having four in one class is really jumping in with both feet.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 12:18:24 PM 
Grant Venham was supposed to have been a grayshirt, but I'm not sure that it worked out that way.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/5/2015 1:20:24 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Grant Venham was supposed to have been a grayshirt, but I'm not sure that it worked out that way.

Yes, I think that's right. He was in the 2011 class, but was to grayshirt. Instead he did as cc-cat suggested, and walked on in the Fall of 2011, and redshirted. Then he got his scholarship in the Spring, and was with the team in 2012, 2013, and 2014. He would be a redshirt Senior this fall, but I believe he is graduating this Spring.

Last Edited: 2/5/2015 1:33:03 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/7/2015 8:20:17 PM 
I'm pretty sure Chris Garrret was a gray shirt. I think it was the first time I had heard of it. I could be misremembering.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/7/2015 8:44:29 PM 
BurritoBuggySlave wrote:
I'm pretty sure Chris Garrret was a gray shirt. I think it was the first time I had heard of it. I could be misremembering.

Chris Garrett and Steven Jackson both did something like that in 2005, counting against 2006, but I don't recall if they were grayshirts, or if they had other circumstances that caused them to enroll late. You may well be right on Garrett, and Jackson may have enrolled late due to some family issues.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/10/2015 10:07:30 AM 
Considerable discussion nationally re: grayshirts as Petrino at Louisville flips a kid to grayshirt 48 hours before singing day. No previous discussion took place with the recruit regarding a possible grayshirt prior to getting a call. Kid is running back and may end up at Marshall. Scrambling for options. Pstrino -some people never change.

I have no issue with grayshirts, but they ned to be part of a discussion with the recruit - which I m sure is in our case.
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Kinggeorge4
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/10/2015 12:01:31 PM 
My understanding was that Jacob Koons from Trimble took a grayshirt after graduating highschool last year. Is that true and is he going to be on our roster this spring?

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

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TheRealMikeDrake
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/10/2015 12:48:23 PM 
Not sure of his status, he Arkley indicated recently he's with the team.

Jason Arkley
‏@JasonAmessenger
Trimble grad Jacob Koons ('14, LB) joined Ohio as walk-on last month. Younger brother Tanner Koons (OL) will be preferred walk-on this fall.

https://twitter.com/JasonAmessenger/status/56300254837499...
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Grayshirts
   Posted: 2/11/2015 11:38:04 AM 
cc-cat wrote:
Considerable discussion nationally re: grayshirts as Petrino at Louisville flips a kid to grayshirt 48 hours before singing day. No previous discussion took place with the recruit regarding a possible grayshirt prior to getting a call. Kid is running back and may end up at Marshall. Scrambling for options. Pstrino -some people never change.

I have no issue with grayshirts, but they ned to be part of a discussion with the recruit - which I m sure is in our case.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/sto...

It seems clear Ohio's grayshirts were given scholarships with the knowledge upfront that the grayshirt would be the case. The kid that was going to go to Louisville ended up at Wake Forest.
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