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Topic:  RE: New parking policy

Topic:  RE: New parking policy
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Bobcat1996
General User

Member Since: 1/2/2017
Post Count: 589

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 8:37:45 AM 
. wrote:
[QUOTE=SBH] Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

"You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.

Either stop being a mediocre mid-major program or bring down your prices. Iím not paying $120 for my family to watch us play Duquesne. Bleep off with that."




If you don't want to pay those prices at Ohio, don't pay them. Travel to Buffalo to watch the Bulls play Wagner or to Toledo and watch the Rockets face Norfolk State or LIU in 2022. The Redhawks face LIU in Oxford in 2021 or Robert Morris next season. Maybe you would prefer watching the UC Bearcats host Murray State? The fact is that many, many schools have games like you described above. If you don't want to pay the price, stay at home.

Last Edited: 3/6/2021 8:47:32 AM by Bobcat1996

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,401

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 9:01:56 AM 
Kinggeorge4 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Kinggeorge4 wrote:
SBH wrote:
Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.



Been saying it for years. Many want to pay next to nothing yet receive everything. Like tailgating and not going to the game, maybe open the lot over by the old HDL center for people to party and not go to the game. Complaining about the family pack prices which are still a bargain. She will probably run as soon as she can.


I hear what you're saying in a way. I'm complaining less about prices, and more about the fact that I can't buy what I really want. I get more joy out of OU football from tailgating and socializing than I do the game itself. Hence why I want two passes and two tickets. Hell, the last game we were at, my wife and a buddy's wife never even went to the game. They were happy, the guys were happy, and I had two tickets that didn't get used.

To get two passes, I have to buy six tickets, or at least that was the 2019 model. I don't want six tickets, and other than homecoming, find it impossible to use six tickets. One would think there's a way, right?

Not sure if this is correct but I was always told there was way more demand for parking than spaces. If so, I've always thought it would be nice to open other lots like The Rideges and bus people down before the game and after to allow larger tailgate spots. Not sure it would work but if people want more parking passes, need to get creative.


There is more demand for "close in" parking than there are spaces but as you correctly pointed out, there is plenty of space to park on campus.

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,401

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 9:04:53 AM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
. wrote:
[QUOTE=SBH] Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

"You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.

Either stop being a mediocre mid-major program or bring down your prices. Iím not paying $120 for my family to watch us play Duquesne. Bleep off with that."




If you don't want to pay those prices at Ohio, don't pay them. Travel to Buffalo to watch the Bulls play Wagner or to Toledo and watch the Rockets face Norfolk State or LIU in 2022. The Redhawks face LIU in Oxford in 2021 or Robert Morris next season. Maybe you would prefer watching the UC Bearcats host Murray State? The fact is that many, many schools have games like you described above. If you don't want to pay the price, stay at home.



Talking to those in the sports industry it's not so much a matter of people wanting to pay this coming season for their respective sports but whether they want to come back. Most of the diehards will but it's the casual or occassional fan who found other things to do this past season who they are afraid won't come back or won't come back as often. Because of that, many season ticket packages have been modified and/or enhanced to attract people back to the games. This is particularly true in cases where supply of seats currently exceeds demand for said seats.

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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Member Since: 9/10/2013
Post Count: 1,595

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 9:53:29 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
. wrote:
[QUOTE=SBH] Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

"You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.

Either stop being a mediocre mid-major program or bring down your prices. Iím not paying $120 for my family to watch us play Duquesne. Bleep off with that."




If you don't want to pay those prices at Ohio, don't pay them. Travel to Buffalo to watch the Bulls play Wagner or to Toledo and watch the Rockets face Norfolk State or LIU in 2022. The Redhawks face LIU in Oxford in 2021 or Robert Morris next season. Maybe you would prefer watching the UC Bearcats host Murray State? The fact is that many, many schools have games like you described above. If you don't want to pay the price, stay at home.



Talking to those in the sports industry it's not so much a matter of people wanting to pay this coming season for their respective sports but whether they want to come back. Most of the diehards will but it's the casual or occassional fan who found other things to do this past season who they are afraid won't come back or won't come back as often. Because of that, many season ticket packages have been modified and/or enhanced to attract people back to the games. This is particularly true in cases where supply of seats currently exceeds demand for said seats.



Been saying that to teams all off-season. Breaking new consumer habits developed during the pandemic are going to be a pain in the neck to undo. You would be amazed by the behind the door convos I've been part of and let's just say there have been many lakes formed in these offices from the sweat coming off their heads
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Club Hyatt
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,138

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 10:38:43 AM 
. wrote:
SBH wrote:
Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.


At this point it has little to do with the product on the field. Its the attitude by the athletic department to nickel and dime fans as that is the Athens way.

All were dishonestly told all last year until the very last minute before the season began to buy season tickets anyway even though everyone knew the prospects for an in-person season were next to none. Then after fans bought season tickets they were told you can eat what you paid for this year or defer it to 2021. They called me. I made the election to defer to 2021 then they rudely hung up the phone.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Club Hyatt
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,138

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 11:02:16 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
. wrote:
[QUOTE=SBH] Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

"You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.

Either stop being a mediocre mid-major program or bring down your prices. Iím not paying $120 for my family to watch us play Duquesne. Bleep off with that."




If you don't want to pay those prices at Ohio, don't pay them. Travel to Buffalo to watch the Bulls play Wagner or to Toledo and watch the Rockets face Norfolk State or LIU in 2022. The Redhawks face LIU in Oxford in 2021 or Robert Morris next season. Maybe you would prefer watching the UC Bearcats host Murray State? The fact is that many, many schools have games like you described above. If you don't want to pay the price, stay at home.



Talking to those in the sports industry it's not so much a matter of people wanting to pay this coming season for their respective sports but whether they want to come back. Most of the diehards will but it's the casual or occassional fan who found other things to do this past season who they are afraid won't come back or won't come back as often. Because of that, many season ticket packages have been modified and/or enhanced to attract people back to the games. This is particularly true in cases where supply of seats currently exceeds demand for said seats.


What I see is if you were a diehard but due to health or age was planning to retire out of you're athletics commitment in a few years at the start of 2020 the pandemic was a good excuse for an early retirement. The same with others keeping tickets on because of for conditional reasons like a relative in the area they had done it while they had a son in school.

The problem is worse for P5 programs where demand was driven by super high interest in one era of the program which can't be achieved again.

They can strike down all the COVID-19 restrictions they want but its not going to be safe. Vaccine is only temporary protection. It will make the most difference for the average person from Oct-March. Time is being wasted rushing people into vaccinations when it won't last them into next winter. Rushed to the market 2 shot vaccine solutions.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Club Hyatt
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,138

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 12:18:40 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Kinggeorge4 wrote:
SBH wrote:
Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.



Been saying it for years. Many want to pay next to nothing yet receive everything. Like tailgating and not going to the game, maybe open the lot over by the old HDL center for people to party and not go to the game. Complaining about the family pack prices which are still a bargain. She will probably run as soon as she can.


I hear what you're saying in a way. I'm complaining less about prices, and more about the fact that I can't buy what I really want. I get more joy out of OU football from tailgating and socializing than I do the game itself. Hence why I want two passes and two tickets. Hell, the last game we were at, my wife and a buddy's wife never even went to the game. They were happy, the guys were happy, and I had two tickets that didn't get used.

To get two passes, I have to buy six tickets, or at least that was the 2019 model. I don't want six tickets, and other than homecoming, find it impossible to use six tickets. One would think there's a way, right?


What they should do is open up more tailgate lots like the one across the river from Peden where people parked for free for years a per game tailgate lot then have the season tailgate passes over in the traditional tailgate lot across from the Convo. Tailgating shouldn't be restricted, it should be encouraged as part of the atmosphere.

Same with the green lot they priced it out so high so only a handful of donors want it. They could allow game day parking there for $40 dollars a ticket which could work for high demand games. There are better ways to squeeze money out of a fanbase than refusing to reimburse a $10 dollar ticket fee.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,401

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 12:48:20 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
. wrote:
SBH wrote:
Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.


At this point it has little to do with the product on the field. Its the attitude by the athletic department to nickel and dime fans as that is the Athens way.

All were dishonestly told all last year until the very last minute before the season began to buy season tickets anyway even though everyone knew the prospects for an in-person season were next to none. Then after fans bought season tickets they were told you can eat what you paid for this year or defer it to 2021. They called me. I made the election to defer to 2021 then they rudely hung up the phone.


You also had the option to get your money back.

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Victory
General User

Member Since: 3/10/2012
Post Count: 867

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 1:18:23 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
. wrote:
[QUOTE=SBH] Julie Cromer often must wonder what she's gotten herself into. Our fans have got to be the cheapest in BCS football.


(Whispers)

"You donít get to charge more money for things people arenít interested in just because you want to make more money.

Either build a product people want or lower your prices. Peopleís hard earned dollars arenít Julie Cromerís or OUís birthright.

Either stop being a mediocre mid-major program or bring down your prices. Iím not paying $120 for my family to watch us play Duquesne. Bleep off with that."




If you don't want to pay those prices at Ohio, don't pay them. Travel to Buffalo to watch the Bulls play Wagner or to Toledo and watch the Rockets face Norfolk State or LIU in 2022. The Redhawks face LIU in Oxford in 2021 or Robert Morris next season. Maybe you would prefer watching the UC Bearcats host Murray State? The fact is that many, many schools have games like you described above. If you don't want to pay the price, stay at home.



Talking to those in the sports industry it's not so much a matter of people wanting to pay this coming season for their respective sports but whether they want to come back. Most of the diehards will but it's the casual or occassional fan who found other things to do this past season who they are afraid won't come back or won't come back as often. Because of that, many season ticket packages have been modified and/or enhanced to attract people back to the games. This is particularly true in cases where supply of seats currently exceeds demand for said seats.


What I see is if you were a diehard but due to health or age was planning to retire out of you're athletics commitment in a few years at the start of 2020 the pandemic was a good excuse for an early retirement. The same with others keeping tickets on because of for conditional reasons like a relative in the area they had done it while they had a son in school.

The problem is worse for P5 programs where demand was driven by super high interest in one era of the program which can't be achieved again.

They can strike down all the COVID-19 restrictions they want but its not going to be safe. Vaccine is only temporary protection. It will make the most difference for the average person from Oct-March. Time is being wasted rushing people into vaccinations when it won't last them into next winter. Rushed to the market 2 shot vaccine solutions.



This may be true but there is not a better option. If that's the case we'll just vaccinate people every year like we do with influenza and COVID won't mutate as fast so, hopefully, we can keep up. People do catch if after vaccination but it is uncommon and as far as I know there is still no case of hospitalization. We have a higher percentage of scientifically illiterate people in the USA than most developed countries so we might not quite reach herd immunity. If that's the case we'll be close enough that it will propagate very slowly so those cases of catching it after vaccination should be few and far between and hospitalization of those people should be extremely rare. I think that even if enough people deny vaccination that we don't reach herd immunity that it will be a lesser problem than common year influenza for those of us that do. It does remain to be seen so cross your fingers. At some point you just have to give those that are harmed from refusing vaccination a Darwin Award and allow life to go back to normal.


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Pataskala
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
Post Count: 7,642

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 1:44:12 PM 
Victory wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


They can strike down all the COVID-19 restrictions they want but its not going to be safe. Vaccine is only temporary protection. It will make the most difference for the average person from Oct-March. Time is being wasted rushing people into vaccinations when it won't last them into next winter. Rushed to the market 2 shot vaccine solutions.



This may be true but there is not a better option. If that's the case we'll just vaccinate people every year like we do with influenza and COVID won't mutate as fast so, hopefully, we can keep up. People do catch if after vaccination but it is uncommon and as far as I know there is still no case of hospitalization. We have a higher percentage of scientifically illiterate people in the USA than most developed countries so we might not quite reach herd immunity. If that's the case we'll be close enough that it will propagate very slowly so those cases of catching it after vaccination should be few and far between and hospitalization of those people should be extremely rare. I think that even if enough people deny vaccination that we don't reach herd immunity that it will be a lesser problem than common year influenza for those of us that do. It does remain to be seen so cross your fingers. At some point you just have to give those that are harmed from refusing vaccination a Darwin Award and allow life to go back to normal.




Someone on CNN the other day mentioned that we will likely need a booster dose of vaccine next year. Wouldn't be surprised to see them come up with a combo regular flu/covid shot. And a CNN analyst is now predicting herd immunity by July based on the number of shots expected by late spring.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 11,063

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/6/2021 11:59:21 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
. . . They can strike down all the COVID-19 restrictions they want but its not going to be safe. Vaccine is only temporary protection. It will make the most difference for the average person from Oct-March. Time is being wasted rushing people into vaccinations when it won't last them into next winter. Rushed to the market 2 shot vaccine solutions.


Truth is we don't know how long the protection from the vaccine lasts -- could be just a few months, might be as long as 18 months. If SARS-CoV-2 acts like the original SAR virus, it could mutate itself out of existence as each mutation was weaker than the one before in terms of lethality. This is the typical route of viral epidemics. There are exceptions, where a virus mutates into a more lethal form -- as happened when the Kansas-Nebraska virus was taken to Spain by U.S. military personnel and came back to the U.S. in 1918 as the "Spanish Flu." No mutation of SARS-CoV-2 so far has been significantly more lethal, though some have been more contagious.

So the odds are that herd immunity via the vaccine and those who have recovered from both symptomatic and asymptomatic injections coupled with downgrading mutations will bring an end to the pandemic in the not too distant future.

Just saw an interesting statistic on the vaccination. So far there are 996 deaths attributed directly to both Covid vaccines. These are deaths as a result of a fatal reaction to the shot itself. This is out of 42 million people vaccinated. That's a death rate of .0023. The seasonal flu vaccine, by comparison, averages about 50 deaths per year, for a death rate of .0000265. Obviously, in both cases, your odds are better getting vaccinated than not getting vaccinated. I should add that the 996 death figure is probably a little higher than it should be because sometimes people die right after receiving a shot, but the shot is not the cause, but the death is included in the total because they canít prove it wasnít caused the shot. So the built-in bias is to err on the side of over-reporting rather than under-reporting deaths.

These statistics also show why children 18 and under should not be vaccinated unless they have a known comorbitiy. In this age group they have a greater likelihood of dying from the shot than dying from the disease -- both of which are extremely rare. This, of course, doesn't apply to adults where the odds go the other way. For the record there have been about 600 COVID-19 deaths nationwide in children 18 and under out of cohort of 78 million, and most of those deaths have been children with one or more comorbidities.

Last Edited: 3/7/2021 12:47:37 AM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Victory
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Member Since: 3/10/2012
Post Count: 867

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/7/2021 12:45:59 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

These statistics also show why children 18 and under should not be vaccinated unless they have a known comorbitiy. In this age group they have a greater likelihood of dying from the shot than dying from the disease -- both of which are extremely rare. This, of course, doesn't apply to adults where the odds go the other way. For the record there have been about 600 COVID-19 deaths nationwide in children 18 and under out of cohort of 78 million, and most of those deaths have been children with one or more comorbidities.


I doubt that this is what the CDC will end up recommending. The risk to a child is very small in both cases. The risk to a vaccinated adult is small but might become somewhat more significant over time. The highest risk in all of this will probably still come from an unvaccinated child passing the disease to an unvaccinated or even a vaccinated adult.
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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 11,063

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/7/2021 1:18:20 PM 
Victory wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

These statistics also show why children 18 and under should not be vaccinated unless they have a known comorbitiy. In this age group they have a greater likelihood of dying from the shot than dying from the disease -- both of which are extremely rare. This, of course, doesn't apply to adults where the odds go the other way. For the record there have been about 600 COVID-19 deaths nationwide in children 18 and under out of cohort of 78 million, and most of those deaths have been children with one or more comorbidities.


I doubt that this is what the CDC will end up recommending. The risk to a child is very small in both cases. The risk to a vaccinated adult is small but might become somewhat more significant over time. The highest risk in all of this will probably still come from an unvaccinated child passing the disease to an unvaccinated or even a vaccinated adult.


Well, that is what Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiologist on the Yale faculty, is recommending based on current data. Child-to-adult transmission rates are small compared to adult-to-adult transmission, and adult-to-child transmission is statistically inconsequential because of the very low rates of serious cases in that cohort. You are correct that we donít yet know the final CDC recommendation and that newer data might change the analysis of relative risk in these situations. As always time will tell.

Last Edited: 3/7/2021 1:28:08 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,138

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/7/2021 10:32:39 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
. . . They can strike down all the COVID-19 restrictions they want but its not going to be safe. Vaccine is only temporary protection. It will make the most difference for the average person from Oct-March. Time is being wasted rushing people into vaccinations when it won't last them into next winter. Rushed to the market 2 shot vaccine solutions.


Truth is we don't know how long the protection from the vaccine lasts -- could be just a few months, might be as long as 18 months. If SARS-CoV-2 acts like the original SAR virus, it could mutate itself out of existence as each mutation was weaker than the one before in terms of lethality. This is the typical route of viral epidemics. There are exceptions, where a virus mutates into a more lethal form -- as happened when the Kansas-Nebraska virus was taken to Spain by U.S. military personnel and came back to the U.S. in 1918 as the "Spanish Flu." No mutation of SARS-CoV-2 so far has been significantly more lethal, though some have been more contagious.

So the odds are that herd immunity via the vaccine and those who have recovered from both symptomatic and asymptomatic injections coupled with downgrading mutations will bring an end to the pandemic in the not too distant future.

Just saw an interesting statistic on the vaccination. So far there are 996 deaths attributed directly to both Covid vaccines. These are deaths as a result of a fatal reaction to the shot itself. This is out of 42 million people vaccinated. That's a death rate of .0023. The seasonal flu vaccine, by comparison, averages about 50 deaths per year, for a death rate of .0000265. Obviously, in both cases, your odds are better getting vaccinated than not getting vaccinated. I should add that the 996 death figure is probably a little higher than it should be because sometimes people die right after receiving a shot, but the shot is not the cause, but the death is included in the total because they canít prove it wasnít caused the shot. So the built-in bias is to err on the side of over-reporting rather than under-reporting deaths.


996 deaths in 42 million shots doesn't sound like a lot but with 4.5 billion doses that is 99,600 deaths, a fair number.

The whole push behind herd immunity is a full, no restriction re-opening to drop social distancing and mask wearing. Get the shot, stop social distancing and mask wearing. Let you're guard down. Its another disservice to the public.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,998

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 8:57:14 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
[QUOTE=Club Hyatt]

Just saw an interesting statistic on the vaccination. So far there are 996 deaths attributed directly to both Covid vaccines. These are deaths as a result of a fatal reaction to the shot itself.


Can you provide a link with this information? I'm having trouble finding similar numbers on Google.

I think the 996 number you're referring to may be deaths reported, as opposed to deaths directly linked to the vaccine. The data the CDC showed indicates that deaths from anaphylaxis -- which would be deaths as a direct result of the vaccine -- occur at a rate of somewhere between 2 and 5 per million. Even if you assume the high end of that, that'd be more like a rate of 210 deaths per 42 million vaccines administered.
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Victory
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Member Since: 3/10/2012
Post Count: 867

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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 9:07:37 AM 
That number is for the world over. I am all for social distancing and wearing masks but there are health consequences for the restrictions in place as well.

Let's look at it this way. At the start of the pandemic, when nobody was immune and people were living normal lives, nearly every developed country concluded that the doubling time for cases was two or three days which varied by lifestyle and population density. Then that means you'd go from 1000 cases to over a billion cases in a couple of months if no action to limit spread was taken. Everyone would have had it at once. Heath care would not have been available. Supply chains might have collapsed. Tens of millions would have been dead.

If the average infected person gives the disease to more than one person you have exponential growth. If it's just above one the doubling time is much longer than two days but the thing with exponential growth is that, given time, the growth will be overwhelming. The point of the measures taken was to keep the transmission rate below one. People who can't do math would make stupid arguments like if Walmart can be open then schools can be open. But it'd really be an either or thing. Every opening moves the transmission rate closer to one and you have to make your choices. Mask wearing allows a lot more stuff to be open than without it.

Now we have about 30% of the USA with some immunity and it is much harder for the virus to propagate. In another six weeks or so we might be approaching herd immunity. Oversimplified, if the transmission rate under normal activity is 2 and half the people are immune then it is now 1.

Now, just like with Walmart and school, you have to make a decision. What is worse? The vaccine or the disease spreading? Even though an emergency vaccine might do more harm than typical is this even close? I mean, 100000 people world wide are probably going to die from the added depression and poverty from the restrictions put in place let alone from further spread of COVID.

Last Edited: 3/8/2021 1:51:39 PM by Victory

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 10:24:09 AM 

Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths potentially from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only.  The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine.  Further, I expect the death rate after vaccination to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated.  So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort.  And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot.  So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations.  This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system.  So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases.  As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent.  So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot.  Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison. 

Last Edited: 3/9/2021 9:24:20 AM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 12:10:21 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only. The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine. Further, I expect the death rate from the vaccine to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated. So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort. And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot. So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but I this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations. This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system. So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases. As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent. So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot. Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison.


Gotcha. I think the key word in there is 'Reports.' I think those are reported deaths, but not confirmed deaths, as you mention.

But makes sense.

Last Edited: 3/8/2021 12:34:59 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 1:25:01 PM 
Victory wrote:

If the average infected person gives the disease to more than one person you have exponential growth. If it's just above one the doubling time is much longer than two days but the thing with exponential growth is that, given time, the growth will be overwhelming. The point of the measures taken was to keep the transmission rate below one. People who can't do math would make stupid arguments like if Walmart can be open then schools cab be open. But it'd really an either or thing. Every opening moves the transmission rate closer to one and you have to make your choices. Mask wearing allows a lot more stuff to be open than without it.



In NJ they're doing some "walking back" on the importance of the rate of infection, being 1 or less.

Our infection rate had been rising. Its been hovering at 1 or a little over for about a week.

That hasn't stopped our Governor, who was one of the most "conservative" when it came to lock downs and keeping other restrictions in place, from continuing to loosen his restrictions.

Part of the reason for the increase in the rate of infection is people seem to be getting tested, only when they show symptoms.

That seems to skew the calculation for rate of infection.

Even with the rate of infection over 1,we're continuing to see hospitalizations continue to drop.
Same with covid patients in ICU's or on vents.

The hospital where my wife is a nurse has seen a steady drop in covid
patients.

Covid patients are also, thanks to advances in treatment, not spending a
lot of time in the hospital.
Last year she had very few covid patients to visit at home.

Now her hospital has several hundred.

Most of the patients she visits have been in the hospital for a few days, then go home to complete their recovery.

Most of them had mild symptoms.





Last Edited: 3/8/2021 1:26:38 PM by rpbobcat

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 1:49:02 PM 
This is a problem with the model not accurately calculating the transmission rate as the data that they have access to changes. You cannot test everyone every day and every test is not 100% accurate so we have known from the beginning that we were missing a lot of positives. They made a model to do their best to compensate but the model has to change with reality as access to good data changes.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 2:48:05 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only. The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine. Further, I expect the death rate from the vaccine to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated. So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort. And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot. So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but I this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations. This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system. So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases. As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent. So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot. Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison.


Gotcha. I think the key word in there is 'Reports.' I think those are reported deaths, but not confirmed deaths, as you mention.

But makes sense.


Exactly! Itís the same kind of info youíll see if you look up all the side effects of your prescription medication in the PDR ó ďreported side effects.Ē Itís not that they are false, it just that theyíre unconfirmed. These are often divided into two groups ó those observed during clinical trials and those reported later.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 3:48:04 PM 
Victory wrote:
This is a problem with the model not accurately calculating the transmission rate as the data that they have access to changes. You cannot test everyone every day and every test is not 100% accurate so we have known from the beginning that we were missing a lot of positives. They made a model to do their best to compensate but the model has to change with reality as access to good data changes.


They also pointed out today that the % of people testing positive is
continuing to drop.
Given the fact that, as I posted, it seems that people with some type of
symptom are making up the majority of people getting tested, that's another
positive sign.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 4:03:45 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only. The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine. Further, I expect the death rate from the vaccine to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated. So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort. And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot. So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but I this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations. This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system. So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases. As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent. So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot. Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison.


This is totally bogus. These are deaths of people after they took a shot, not caused by the vaccine as you say. The not so fine print says specifically that there has been no deaths attributed to the vaccines based on autopsies,etc. included in their data base. Iím not crazy enough to think that they arenít unreported deaths directly related to the vaccine, but the total number of deaths after taking the vaccine does not equal the numbers killed by the vaccine. You talk about making stuff up, ďdeaths from the vaccineĒ is way off base. Reading comprehension is a lost art I guess.

Last Edited: 3/8/2021 4:05:33 PM by colobobcat66

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 4:21:41 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only. The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine. Further, I expect the death rate from the vaccine to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated. So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort. And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot. So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but I this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations. This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system. So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases. As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent. So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot. Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison.


This is totally bogus. These are deaths of people after they took a shot, not caused by the vaccine as you say. The not so fine print says specifically that there has been no deaths attributed to the vaccines based on autopsies,etc. included in their data base. Iím not crazy enough to think that they arenít unreported deaths directly related to the vaccine, but the total number of deaths after taking the vaccine does not equal the numbers killed by the vaccine. You talk about making stuff up, ďdeaths from the vaccineĒ is way off base. Reading comprehension is a lost art I guess.


Your argument is with the CDC. That's the way they report these kind of things. It's very hard to get confirmed data so they report the data that they can get. Every flu season they estimate the number of flu deaths using something called "excess deaths" compared to previous years. It's a complicated formula, and it's not totally accurate, but it's what we got. In a given year other variables that they don't track could be at play and result in a statistical spike in "excess deaths, and, hence, in their estimate of influenza deaths.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: New parking policy
   Posted: 3/8/2021 8:00:45 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Here's the graph with the CDC data on deaths from the vaccine. This is, of course, U.S. data only. The major point here is that weighing the relative risk it's much safer on an individual basis to get the vaccine than not get the vaccine. Further, I expect the death rate from the vaccine to go down as younger age cohorts begin to be vaccinated. So far the vast majority of vaccinations have been in the 65 and older age cohort. And, keep in mind that these stats are not just from immediate anaphylactic reactions but for anyone who died of natural causes within a few weeks of receiving the shot. So, some of these deaths were no doubt from other causes, but I this is how CDC makes these kinds of calculations. This chart only shows the reported cases through the VAERS reporting system. So, the 5 percent death figure here is just of reported cases. As I said, when you take this number and compare it to the total number of vaccinations the death rate is about .0023 percent not 5 percent. So as flawed as this system is, the CDC does the same for the seasonal flu shot. Therefore, we do have a fair A/B comparison.


This is totally bogus. These are deaths of people after they took a shot, not caused by the vaccine as you say. The not so fine print says specifically that there has been no deaths attributed to the vaccines based on autopsies,etc. included in their data base. Iím not crazy enough to think that they arenít unreported deaths directly related to the vaccine, but the total number of deaths after taking the vaccine does not equal the numbers killed by the vaccine. You talk about making stuff up, ďdeaths from the vaccineĒ is way off base. Reading comprehension is a lost art I guess.


Your argument is with the CDC. That's the way they report these kind of things. It's very hard to get confirmed data so they report the data that they can get. Every flu season they estimate the number of flu deaths using something called "excess deaths" compared to previous years. It's a complicated formula, and it's not totally accurate, but it's what we got. In a given year other variables that they don't track could be at play and result in a statistical spike in "excess deaths, and, hence, in their estimate of influenza deaths.

Thatís simply not true, they say in the article that there are no deaths that their data says support any deaths attributable to the vaccine -period,
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