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Topic:  Rigged rankings

Topic:  Rigged rankings
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/15/2020 8:43:16 PM 
I’ve never seen a more blatant example of corruption than this years cfb playoff rankings. There is a clear P-5 non P5 bias and if we don’t make noise about it this year when there is the most clear cut case I can remember, this will come back to bite us when our team deserves a higher ranking. They have Iowa state at number 6, and Louisiana Lafayette at 19. when in week 1 Louisiana Lafayette smashed Iowa state 31-14. Louisiana is now 9-1 with there only loss to unbeaten Coastal Carolina. You would think that Coastal Carolina being unbeaten and having beaten a team Iowa state lost to, would at least be above them. You would be wrong. They sit at 12th. This is the most rigged P-5 money corrupt ranking I can remember. Years past have been bad but this is ridiculous. Why even play D1 when if you beat the team on the field you’re still considered lower than them in the rankings. This is an outrage and people need to be making more noise about it.

Last Edited: 12/15/2020 8:45:09 PM by TheBobcatBandit

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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/15/2020 9:51:39 PM 
If you haven't figured out the grift yet - shame on you. The AD's are in on it with the P5 - > they want to move up to those jobs. Nobody steps out of line. What's the upside for Scott Frost (UCF) or Luke Fickell (Cincy) to make real noise about their National Title aspirations while jeopardizing their next big payday? What about their AD's who want P5 jobs? It's a bullshit system. Figure it out. That's why I don't subscribe to having Carpetbagging, Upwardly Mobile outsiders running our Athletic Department. You need your own loyalists making the noise. Jim Schaus was never going to command respect for Ohio when he had a wandering eye for WV and others. It's sad.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/15/2020 11:31:43 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
I’ve never seen a more blatant example of corruption than this years cfb playoff rankings. There is a clear P-5 non P5 bias and if we don’t make noise about it this year when there is the most clear cut case I can remember, this will come back to bite us when our team deserves a higher ranking. They have Iowa state at number 6, and Louisiana Lafayette at 19. when in week 1 Louisiana Lafayette smashed Iowa state 31-14. Louisiana is now 9-1 with there only loss to unbeaten Coastal Carolina. You would think that Coastal Carolina being unbeaten and having beaten a team Iowa state lost to, would at least be above them. You would be wrong. They sit at 12th. This is the most rigged P-5 money corrupt ranking I can remember. Years past have been bad but this is ridiculous. Why even play D1 when if you beat the team on the field you’re still considered lower than them in the rankings. This is an outrage and people need to be making more noise about it.


You make excellent points. Reminds me of a situation a number of years ago when a MAC team beat a Big East team in basketball during the regular season. The Big East team ended the season barely above 500. The MAC team ended the season with 20+ wins. Come selection Sunday the Big East team is in the NCAA Tournament and the MAC team is not given an at-large bid. And, this is not a lone example. This kind of thing happens every year where a very deserving team from a lesser known league is left out in favor of a less deserving team from a "name" conference. A friend of mine, who has a coaching background, decided after one of these inequitable NCAA tournament selections to personally boycott the NCAA Tournament. Since that point he's never watched any NCAA men's Tournament games. He watches the women's tournament, which he says is fairer in the selection process and features better fundamental basketball. I have not boycotted the tournament myself, but I do understand where he is coming from.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 1:26:07 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
I’ve never seen a more blatant example of corruption than this years cfb playoff rankings. There is a clear P-5 non P5 bias and if we don’t make noise about it this year when there is the most clear cut case I can remember, this will come back to bite us when our team deserves a higher ranking. They have Iowa state at number 6, and Louisiana Lafayette at 19. when in week 1 Louisiana Lafayette smashed Iowa state 31-14. Louisiana is now 9-1 with there only loss to unbeaten Coastal Carolina. You would think that Coastal Carolina being unbeaten and having beaten a team Iowa state lost to, would at least be above them. You would be wrong. They sit at 12th. This is the most rigged P-5 money corrupt ranking I can remember. Years past have been bad but this is ridiculous. Why even play D1 when if you beat the team on the field you’re still considered lower than them in the rankings. This is an outrage and people need to be making more noise about it.


You make excellent points. Reminds me of a situation a number of years ago when a MAC team beat a Big East team in basketball during the regular season. The Big East team ended the season barely above 500. The MAC team ended the season with 20+ wins. Come selection Sunday the Big East team is in the NCAA Tournament and the MAC team is not given an at-large bid. And, this is not a lone example. This kind of thing happens every year where a very deserving team from a lesser known league is left out in favor of a less deserving team from a "name" conference. A friend of mine, who has a coaching background, decided after one of these inequitable NCAA tournament selections to personally boycott the NCAA Tournament. Since that point he's never watched any NCAA men's Tournament games. He watches the women's tournament, which he says is fairer in the selection process and features better fundamental basketball. I have not boycotted the tournament myself, but I do understand where he is coming from.


Yes I agree. It might be worse in basketball. Many have said for a long time MAC should be a 2 bid league but always falls on deaf ears. This is the worse case in football I can remember. I have complained about it before in years past with Boise and others but I don’t think they have had the same signature win that the teams have had this year.

Also another note to add. I got in an argument with someone today on Twitter about this issue.(never a good arguing ground) The person said Iowa state has played a tougher schedule in big 12 than teams in sun belt would. Sun belt is 3-0 bs big 12 this year. Louisiana over Iowa state, Coastal over Kansas, and maybe the most telling of all, Arkansas State over Kansas state. The perception of superiority is an illusion.

Last Edited: 12/16/2020 1:31:47 AM by TheBobcatBandit

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 11:23:25 AM 
It's almost as if playing in a conference that isn't eligible for a national championship makes teams in that conference ineligible for a national championship.

Non P5 schools can't win national championships in football. They're just straight up not eligible, even if the rules don't indicate that. It's been proven in practice time and time again.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 12:25:52 PM 
This thread is obviously for venting purposes. The system is run by the "P"s so naturally they've rigged it to their advantage. It's been that way since Bowl Championship Series days. The only reason they changed to the CFP system is to give it an air of legitimacy by putting a hokey committee in charge of selections. Who's on the committee? "P" school officials, so they're never going to let G5 schools into their club, not even if they expand it to eight or even 16 teams. They'll find a way to keep us out. People have raised hell about it for years and nothing happens. Want a national championship? Start a G5 playoff.


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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 12:49:18 PM 
What is ridiculous is that five conferences are playing for four spots. Throw in Notre Dame in a non Covid season and that is basically six for four spots. Eventually these money hungry leagues will figure out they need to invite eight to the dance and put the shaft to the little guys again.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 1:39:42 PM 
I've had a chance to look at the final rankings for the first six years of the CFP. Even expanding the playoff to 16 teams wouldn't help G5 teams much. Only two G5 teams made it into the top 16 during that time: WMU in 2016 and UCF in 2017. Both had to go unbeaten. WMU finished 15th, behind five three-loss and one four-loss "P" teams. UCF finished 12th while four three-loss and one four-loss "P" teams made into the top 16. Memphis was 10-2 and finished 20th that year. Last year Memphis was 12-1 but was ranked 17th, behind four three-loss "P" teams.

To really give G5 teams a chance, the field would probably have to be expanded to 24 or 32, something the "P" teams have balked at. They already complain about playing two post-season games. But, if someone could throw tons and tons of money into the pot, playing those extra games might be less objectionable for them.


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Rbrat10
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 1:58:21 PM 
I completely agree. I use to watch mostly power 5 football for over 20 years. Anymore I just don't care about it. I have not watched 1 single power 5 game this year. Its a rigged game. Unless you are a buckeye fan( which i hate osu), a bama fan, Clemson or Oklahoma you basically don't have much of a shot. College football use to have some semblance of parity, those days are looooong gone.


#OUOHYEAH

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/16/2020 2:57:55 PM 
The whole issue may be moot if the P5 schools split from the NCAA in football.

And how the SCOTUS rules on the case they just agreed to hear on paying athletes.

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Kinggeorge4
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/17/2020 8:02:13 AM 
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30534280...


GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/17/2020 8:29:58 AM 
For me, this is one time that there is ACTUAL statistical data to kick the Big XII to the curb and tell them to kick rocks. Louisiana destroyed their regular season champion convincingly, only lost to an undefeated team by 3 points, and get the shaft. Change their name to LSU and we're talking about how great of a resume they have and not even discussing A&M for that bubble spot.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/20/2020 9:10:52 PM 
The below story from ESPN says it all. What a shame!


We can quibble over résumés and who was most worthy of facing the No. 1 Crimson Tide as a double-digit underdog, but there is no surprise in what the committee did. In fact, the decisions on the top four were so predictable, it made the entire process stale and boring and so filled with an utter lack of meaningful debate that there is no reason for outrage because we all saw the way this was going to unfold.

This speaks to a system that was set up to favor teams in the Power 5 conferences (and Notre Dame, of course) to keep power and money for themselves. From the beginning, the same teams in Power 5 conferences have dominated the top four. That, in turn, has watered down who actually is capable of making a playoff run. Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Oklahoma have combined to take 20 out of 28 possible spots since the playoff began in 2014.

If Clemson and Alabama end up meeting in the national championship, it would be their fifth playoff meeting in the past six years.

Talk about a lack of competitive balance across a sport with 130 FBS teams.

And, although Oklahoma is not in the playoff this year, the two-loss Sooners still proved their Power 5 stature Sunday when the committee jumped them four spots all the way to No. 6 in the final rankings because they just won their sixth straight Big 12 title. In the process, Oklahoma moved ahead of undefeated Cincinnati, a team that should have merited consideration but instead was deemed to have an insufficient résumé -- like every other undefeated Group of 5 team in BCS/playoff history.

College Football Playoff


College Football Playoff National Championship Presented by AT&T
Hard Rock Stadium (Miami Gardens, Florida)
Jan. 11: 8 p.m. ET on ESPN and the ESPN App

College Football Playoff Semifinal at The Rose Bowl Game
AT&T Stadium (Arlington, Texas)
Jan. 1: 4 p.m. ET on ESPN and the ESPN App

College Football Playoff Semifinal at the Allstate Sugar Bowl Mercedes-Benz Superdome (New Orleans)
Jan. 1: 8 p.m. ET on ESPN and the ESPN App

That the committee actually says it "respects" the undefeated Group of 5 teams it is charged with evaluating smacks of so much hypocrisy you can only laugh (or cry if you are Cincinnati or Coastal Carolina or even San Jose State).

There is no respect and never has been. Look at how the committee treated undefeated UCF in 2017. The Knights, the only undefeated team that year, finished 12th overall in the final rankings behind five two-loss teams and one three-loss team. It's no wonder they declared themselves national champions. There was no way the power structure would let them prove it legitimately. The following year, after another undefeated regular-season run, UCF was ranked eighth -- but only behind two two-loss teams that time!

Former Boise State athletic director Gene Bleymaier saw the same system rewarding only Power 5 programs during the BCS era. He once told me, "Had we beaten Nevada in [2010], we would have had a chance, and that was under the BCS system and this was after we had gone to Congress and put a little pressure on it. Now, there's no chance, in my opinion, for a Group of 5. They can go undefeated all they want, but that committee is not going to let them in the top four. I don't see that happening, and I think that's a shame."

Even in a year in which a pandemic significantly altered résumés, with only two tepid options between Notre Dame and Texas A&M for the No. 4 spot, the committee refused to consider Cincinnati on its merits. Instead, Cincinnati finished No. 8 and gets to play Georgia in the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl -- a no-win situation because, even if the Bearcats win, their critics will claim Georgia simply did not care enough. Then there is undefeated Coastal Carolina, which finished No. 12 and was bypassed for an at-large New Year's Six spot in favor of teams with multiple losses: Iowa State, Georgia and Florida.

Although this particular year looks especially egregious, we have become immune to this lack of consideration now, and it cannot be good for the long-term health of the sport if half the teams playing it are simply going to be disqualified from the playoff every year before the season begins.

Last Edited: 12/20/2020 9:12:31 PM by Bobcat1996

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/20/2020 10:30:53 PM 
Interesting that the story shows up on ESPN, which foots the TV bill for the CFP. It's likely that teams are picked with TV in mind, although as mentioned in the article it's getting boring and predictable that the same teams show up every year. I don't watch any of the three playoff games, largely because of that.


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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 8:04:46 AM 
"That the committee actually says it "respects" the undefeated Group of 5 teams it is charged with evaluating smacks of so much hypocrisy you can only laugh (or cry if you are Cincinnati."


Hypocrisy is the key word. This bunch of good ole boys, although Paola Boivin Arizona St. Professor is the lone female in the committee, can't bring themselves to give anyone other than a power five school an opportunity. This committee doesn't want millions of $$$$ to go outside the good ole boys group. If it didn't happen in this Covid season, it won't happen unless the playoffs expand to 8 or 16 teams.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 8:22:41 AM 
Until there's a system whereby all 10 conference champions earn a spot in a playoff, it's not good enough.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 1:29:38 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Until there's a system whereby all 10 conference champions earn a spot in a playoff, it's not good enough.


This
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 1:58:10 PM 
OUVan wrote:
shabamon wrote:
Until there's a system whereby all 10 conference champions earn a spot in a playoff, it's not good enough.


This


Including this year, in the seven years of the football playoffs, there have been 28 available spots. Only 11 teams have occupied those 28 spots with the PAC 12 only included two times and the Big 12 just four times (all OK). If those two conferences and the other 5 would band together and push for the conference champ plus 2 or 6 at large teams, it would make for a more legitimate tournament. As it is now and combined with the fact that 8 of the top 10 recruiting classes this year are from those 11 teams, the song is going to remain the same for years to come.

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 2:02:31 PM 
I looked this up for another thread: the current CFP committee has 13 members, eleven of whom have direct or indirect ties to "P" schools. There are the ADs from Iowa, Okla, Colo, Ga Tech and Florida, a former reporter who's now on Arizona State's faculty, former USC DB Ronnie Lott, former Penn State OL John Urschel, and a former Army chief of staff who is recused from considering NC St. There's also Ken Hatfield, who coached at Arkansas and Clemson, as well as Rice and AFA. The only G5 reps are the ADs from Wyoming and Arkansas St.


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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 2:09:40 PM 
And then you have this:

SEC teams below .500 going bowling:

— 2-8 South Carolina (Gasparilla)
— 4-6 Kentucky (Gator)
— 3-7 Arkansas (Texas)
— 3-6 Tennessee (Liberty)
— 3-7 MissState (Armed Forces)

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/army-bowl-game-college-f...

Last Edited: 12/21/2020 2:10:33 PM by Alan Swank

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/21/2020 5:16:47 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
And then you have this:

SEC teams below .500 going bowling:

— 2-8 South Carolina (Gasparilla)
— 4-6 Kentucky (Gator)
— 3-7 Arkansas (Texas)
— 3-6 Tennessee (Liberty)
— 3-7 MissState (Armed Forces)

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/army-bowl-game-college-f...


I think most of those games have contracts with the SEC. Plus, something like 20 teams have opted out of bowl games for covid or other reasons. There are something like 62 bowl slots because of cancellations and with so many teams opting out they're reaching down into the dregs. North Texas (4-5) is playing App St at Myrtle Beach this afternoon.


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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/22/2020 6:10:14 PM 
During today's godawful Akron game, Russ suggested that the G5 schools should break away from the "P"s and have our own national championship because it's obvious that no G5 school will ever break into the playoff as it's now structured.


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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/22/2020 8:25:52 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
During today's godawful Akron game, Russ suggested that the G5 schools should break away from the "P"s and have our own national championship because it's obvious that no G5 school will ever break into the playoff as it's now structured.


It may come to that but I feel like that is conceding defeat. If that happens G5 schools will always be viewed as lesser than the P’s. For the most part the P’s are better but the great G5 schools that are unbeaten deserve a chance in the playoff, like in basketball to prove they’re better than the P schools. A true victory would be for the G5 schools to find a way into the playoff and win. Most years it may prove that the unbeaten G5 schools aren’t as good a the P schools but every now and then there might be a great team that can do it. They at least deserve a shot. I think the only format where this would work is every conference champion gets in with a few at larges. 16 team playoff. Maybe can cut out OOC games if the schedule is too long. Could even negotiate to make G5 schools have play in games against eachother to get in.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/23/2020 3:31:50 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
During today's godawful Akron game, Russ suggested that the G5 schools should break away from the "P"s and have our own national championship because it's obvious that no G5 school will ever break into the playoff as it's now structured.


It may come to that but I feel like that is conceding defeat. If that happens G5 schools will always be viewed as lesser than the P’s. For the most part the P’s are better but the great G5 schools that are unbeaten deserve a chance in the playoff, like in basketball to prove they’re better than the P schools. A true victory would be for the G5 schools to find a way into the playoff and win. Most years it may prove that the unbeaten G5 schools aren’t as good a the P schools but every now and then there might be a great team that can do it. They at least deserve a shot. I think the only format where this would work is every conference champion gets in with a few at larges. 16 team playoff. Maybe can cut out OOC games if the schedule is too long. Could even negotiate to make G5 schools have play in games against eachother to get in.


I think the main reason this'll never happen is because there just wouldn't be enough intrigue in the first round of games if you just seeded it normally and didn't offer any byes.

For instance, imagine Ball State is this year's 16 seed. They'd get straight up destroyed by Alabama. TV networks have no interest in replacing an Alabama - Georgia or Alabama - Tennessee or Alabama - Arkansas game in the schedule with Alabama - Ball State, even if it's part of a playoff.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rigged rankings
   Posted: 12/23/2020 6:36:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
During today's godawful Akron game, Russ suggested that the G5 schools should break away from the "P"s and have our own national championship because it's obvious that no G5 school will ever break into the playoff as it's now structured.


It may come to that but I feel like that is conceding defeat. If that happens G5 schools will always be viewed as lesser than the P’s. For the most part the P’s are better but the great G5 schools that are unbeaten deserve a chance in the playoff, like in basketball to prove they’re better than the P schools. A true victory would be for the G5 schools to find a way into the playoff and win. Most years it may prove that the unbeaten G5 schools aren’t as good a the P schools but every now and then there might be a great team that can do it. They at least deserve a shot. I think the only format where this would work is every conference champion gets in with a few at larges. 16 team playoff. Maybe can cut out OOC games if the schedule is too long. Could even negotiate to make G5 schools have play in games against eachother to get in.


I think the main reason this'll never happen is because there just wouldn't be enough intrigue in the first round of games if you just seeded it normally and didn't offer any byes.

For instance, imagine Ball State is this year's 16 seed. They'd get straight up destroyed by Alabama. TV networks have no interest in replacing an Alabama - Georgia or Alabama - Tennessee or Alabama - Arkansas game in the schedule with Alabama - Ball State, even if it's part of a playoff.


But Ball State earned that beating! And heaven forbid that some teams and players would play more games than NFL players.
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