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Topic:  RE: MAC Season Cancelled

Topic:  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 12:13:50 PM 
ZIPsCAT wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Interesting push from players last night on Twitter. Seems to have started with Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields with the hashtag #wewanttoplay.

Of course, the fourth item in their list of demands is the creation of a College Football Players Association. Which sounds enough like a union that it may actually make playing this fall less likely.


They talked about this extensively on ESPN radio yesterday. All of the commentators were like "What 19-20s year olds don't think they're invincible? This is why you don't leave the decision to the athletes to make. Of course they want to play, and they may not fully realize the risk because we all don't. Therefore that's what being an adult in a position of power is about: making the unfavorable but necessary decisions."


Someone on ESPN last night also mentioned the fact that the schools and the conferences have liability issues that the kids and parents don't have. I doubt that many, if any, of the kids and parents would sign a waiver releasing the school/conference from liability related to covid. Too many lawyers among the families.

Lawrence made the argument that if the season is cancelled players would return home and bring the virus with them, which would infect their families. But that won't be as likely to happen if the kids are tested before they leave campus. Anyone who tests positive should stay isolated on campus until they get a negative test result.


We will get by.
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We will survive.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 12:24:37 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
m liability related to covid. Too many lawyers among the families.

Lawrence made the argument that if the season is cancelled players would return home and bring the virus with them, which would infect their families. But that won't be as likely to happen if the kids are tested before they leave campus. Anyone who tests positive should stay isolated on campus until they get a negative test result.


Yeah, I thought Lawrence's argument was interesting. He said:

"People are at just as much, if not more risk, if we don't play. Players will be sent home to their own communities where social distancing is highly unlikely and medical care and expenses will be placed on the families. . .Football is a safe haven for so many people. We are more likely to get this virus in everyday life than playing football. . ."

That the current argument in favor of college football is that the only way people can stay safe is to go into a bubble says a lot about the current state of our nation's response here. Sadly, I think there's a good chance Lawrence is right. I just don't see how or why universities can prioritize providing that to football players over tuition paying students.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 12:50:45 PM 
Republican politicians are now tweeting/writing letters encouraging football to be played. That includes (thus far) Ben Sasse and Jim Jordan.

Ben Sasse repeats Trevor Lawrence's stance, stating that it's safer for players to be in a bubble playing football than it is for them to be, you know, part of society.

Very strong endorsement of America's Covid response. I'm not sure I see how the same people insisting schools need to reopen and employees need to go back to work, are also making the case that college football has to be played because if players aren't in a bubble playing football, it's more risky for them.

What am I missing here, exactly? College football players need a bubble to be safe from Covid, but elementary and high school students and teachers don't?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 1:31:17 PM 
Just wondering what people here think.

If football is moved to the he Spring,do the "Money Games" come back ?

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 2:08:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I just don't see how or why universities can prioritize providing that (bubble) to football players over tuition paying students.


I think it i$ ea$y to $ee how.

Also Harbaugh says "facts" tell us they should play - without citing any facts.

Sasse and Jordan are simply playing the politics card (as is Trump). They know not having a season reinforces to the country that we in no way have this "under control" or "airtight" - Plus Jordan wants to be able to visit locker rooms (someone had to say it - lol)
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 2:18:28 PM 
ZIPsCAT wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
The data has shown that the virus is not that dangerous to college kids.

I guess the MAC couldn't swing the financials so they played the virus fear card. Smart PR play, I suppose, since shutting down/cancelling is seen as the virtuous thing to do these days - especially because they beat other FBS conferences to the punch. But what's the long term cost of shutting down? Also, can someone please explain why kids are safer at home without supervision than on a college campus under supervision with medical treatment at the ready?


The data...so far. There is a pretty uniform reduction in lung capacity after having SARS-CoV-2 (an average of 23%); and recent studies out of Germany have shown that 78% of people who have had the virus (from people who were hospitalized to people who had mild symptoms) showed evidence of heart damage from inflammation (myocarditis); and 41% of autopsies conducted in Germany on Covid-19 victims SARS-CoV-2 had infected the heart substantially.

So it might be that College kids don't DIE from the infection...because college kids are young and bodies can recover. But all of this suggests that there may be long-term (life-long) health impacts on people who have had this virus. Is it really worth the risk so that people can watch football? The adult decision is: no it is not worth the risk.

The long-term cost of shutting down for college sports? It was a cost that was inevitable with how overgrown the house of cards had become. How long the ong-term cost of shutting down in general? Well...you don't have a virus jump 5 species in 4 months and spread world-wide to just about every food processing place, longterm care facility and prison on Earth in the span of 2-months and expect there not to be an economic fallout. That's an Earth shattering event in epidemiology. That's the "big one" that scientists have warned about for literally 40-years.

How are you safer at home than at a on campus with medical treatment/supervision? Because the spread of disease depends on exposure. One of the major factors in exposure is the amount of different interactions you have with people...and the different interactions those people have (think of the Sex-Ed thing they did back in the day when you sleep with someone you're sleeping with all the people they slept with analogy). Even if you have medical treatment available, there's not much you can do for people who have SARS-CoV-2. Like nothing. Other than let them fight it out. That's why we have people on ventilators flipped on their stomachs fighting for survival. There is LITERALLY nothing we can do for them.

Is any of this worth that unknown, worth that risk? The obvious answer is: No it isn't. And we as fans might be upset, but it's the right call. If the MAC cannot survive a downturn year, it shouldn't have been allowed to progress to that point in the first place. Period.


And within the college athletics world, there are many young athletes who had the Rona' and were not hit hard by the virus in symptoms as much as they have been pulmonary and heart effects. These have not been widely disclosed because of HIPPA, however, known of within the circle of the medical field of college athletics.

Testing and the cost of testing is also an issue, with cost like a minimum of $25,000 a week to the average MAC school
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 2:36:47 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
ZIPsCAT wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
The data has shown that the virus is not that dangerous to college kids.

I guess the MAC couldn't swing the financials so they played the virus fear card. Smart PR play, I suppose, since shutting down/cancelling is seen as the virtuous thing to do these days - especially because they beat other FBS conferences to the punch. But what's the long term cost of shutting down? Also, can someone please explain why kids are safer at home without supervision than on a college campus under supervision with medical treatment at the ready?


The data...so far. There is a pretty uniform reduction in lung capacity after having SARS-CoV-2 (an average of 23%); and recent studies out of Germany have shown that 78% of people who have had the virus (from people who were hospitalized to people who had mild symptoms) showed evidence of heart damage from inflammation (myocarditis); and 41% of autopsies conducted in Germany on Covid-19 victims SARS-CoV-2 had infected the heart substantially.

So it might be that College kids don't DIE from the infection...because college kids are young and bodies can recover. But all of this suggests that there may be long-term (life-long) health impacts on people who have had this virus. Is it really worth the risk so that people can watch football? The adult decision is: no it is not worth the risk.

The long-term cost of shutting down for college sports? It was a cost that was inevitable with how overgrown the house of cards had become. How long the ong-term cost of shutting down in general? Well...you don't have a virus jump 5 species in 4 months and spread world-wide to just about every food processing place, longterm care facility and prison on Earth in the span of 2-months and expect there not to be an economic fallout. That's an Earth shattering event in epidemiology. That's the "big one" that scientists have warned about for literally 40-years.

How are you safer at home than at a on campus with medical treatment/supervision? Because the spread of disease depends on exposure. One of the major factors in exposure is the amount of different interactions you have with people...and the different interactions those people have (think of the Sex-Ed thing they did back in the day when you sleep with someone you're sleeping with all the people they slept with analogy). Even if you have medical treatment available, there's not much you can do for people who have SARS-CoV-2. Like nothing. Other than let them fight it out. That's why we have people on ventilators flipped on their stomachs fighting for survival. There is LITERALLY nothing we can do for them.

Is any of this worth that unknown, worth that risk? The obvious answer is: No it isn't. And we as fans might be upset, but it's the right call. If the MAC cannot survive a downturn year, it shouldn't have been allowed to progress to that point in the first place. Period.


And within the college athletics world, there are many young athletes who had the Rona' and were not hit hard by the virus in symptoms as much as they have been pulmonary and heart effects. These have not been widely disclosed because of HIPPA, however, known of within the circle of the medical field of college athletics.

Testing and the cost of testing is also an issue, with cost like a minimum of $25,000 a week to the average MAC school


Yep, cost of testing's a problem for me. I tried to set up testing for employees in Virginia that includes a workforce that's probably not too different in size than everybody who would have to be tested to run a college football program. To do ongoing testing, we were looking at 20k a week.

And due to test result delays, there's limited value in doing so. If you don't get results for 5-7 days (that's what's quoted -- we've actually seen in closer to 10 on average, and in two cases 17 day waits), it makes it very hard to isolate and take proper steps.
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 3:41:14 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I just don't see how or why universities can prioritize providing that (bubble) to football players over tuition paying students.


I think it i$ ea$y to $ee how.

Also Harbaugh says "facts" tell us they should play - without citing any facts.

Sasse and Jordan are simply playing the politics card (as is Trump). They know not having a season reinforces to the country that we in no way have this "under control" or "airtight" - Plus Jordan wants to be able to visit locker rooms (someone had to say it - lol)



Ouch.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 3:52:27 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
...And within the college athletics world, there are many young athletes who had the Rona' and were not hit hard by the virus in symptoms as much as they have been pulmonary and heart effects. These have not been widely disclosed because of HIPPA, however, known of within the circle of the medical field of college athletics. ..

This is exactly the fear I have been expressing. The data I have seen said that a percentage of even the mild cases have lasting heart or lung issues. Hopefully it will clear up with time, and rehab, but there are many unknowns.

cc-cat wrote:
...
Sasse and Jordan are simply playing the politics card (as is Trump). They know not having a season reinforces to the country that we in no way have this "under control" or "airtight" - Plus Jordan wants to be able to visit locker rooms (someone had to say it - lol)

Sasse is a former University President, and a straight shooter. He calls things as he sees them. That doesn't mean he's not wrong sometimes, and here I think he's wrong.

Last Edited: 8/10/2020 3:54:46 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 3:59:58 PM 
L.C. wrote:

Sasse is a former University President, and a straight shooter. He calls things as he sees them. That doesn't mean he's not wrong sometimes, and here I think he's wrong.


Despite being from the great state of Nebraska, he went to the same political school as Collins and Lindsey. He calls out things, and then retreats. Agree - he is wrong here though.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 5:18:11 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Just wondering what people here think.

If football is moved to the he Spring,do the "Money Games" come back ?



Doubtful. It likely won't be a full 12-game schedule because it'll run too close to camps opening for the fall '21 season. More likely eight games, maybe ten, probably all within the conference. Any money games would likely be southern and west coast schools because they might play in February. But northeast and midwest schools probably wouldn't start before March 1 because there's usually too much snow from about the Ohio River north and in the Rockies. Earlier games in domed stadiums might happen (Syracuse, Detroit, Indy and St Louis). But I'd expect a spring season from early/mid-March to the end of April/early May.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 6:35:52 PM 
Doc Bobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I just don't see how or why universities can prioritize providing that (bubble) to football players over tuition paying students.


I think it i$ ea$y to $ee how.

Also Harbaugh says "facts" tell us they should play - without citing any facts.

Sasse and Jordan are simply playing the politics card (as is Trump). They know not having a season reinforces to the country that we in no way have this "under control" or "airtight" - Plus Jordan wants to be able to visit locker rooms (someone had to say it - lol)



Ouch.


Jim Jordan is being consistent, he is ignoring another threat to college athletes.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 6:56:42 PM 
Mountain West just cancelled

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29635064...
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 7:50:02 PM 
okay so Purdue is welcoming 40k kids to campus next week. several schools had 10's of thousands of kids on campuses today. how can Purdue keep 40k safe in a open environment but cant make football safe? I am fine with us not playing. But it is funny that i bet you the MAC would still be playing if the money games were still there. I think it is also a little funny that the big 10 and the pac-12 the two conferences that the players basically formed a united front almost a union are the two conferences that don't want to play.

This may be 100% a safety case and that is what people are going to be put forward no matter what the truth is.

i think if you put to negative guys on football field there is very little chance they will come back positive. look at all the schools that over last few weeks that have had zero positive tests. why can that not continue. why cannot football not be played. between kids with negative test results...

I just want a reasonable answer. like i said i am fine if it is unsafe but i don't believe it is more unsafe then going to school or work. or to a restaurant but they are open.

I know there are possible long term complications. But i also know of someone who had covid in march in April in new York. were told they had long term heart damage. They went for a 3 month check up recently and was told the heart had started to heal itself not that it was better. but my point is we are not going to know long term effects for years
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 8:04:06 PM 
i just don't think this is about player safety. i believe it is about liability protection. If congress and white house would of came to agreement that included liability protection who thinks we still would not be playing?

I just want us to be real about why we are not playing!
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 9:12:37 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
okay so Purdue is welcoming 40k kids to campus next week. several schools had 10's of thousands of kids on campuses today. how can Purdue keep 40k safe in a open environment but cant make football safe?


It's a contact issue. Theoretically, kids who are just going to class aren't blocking or tackling other students (including students from other schools during games), and aren't lining up shoulder-to-shoulder with four or five other students and within a couple feet of students from other schools. Another issue with student athletes is that they breathe deeply from exertion (and even over-exertion). Plastic shields on helmets would help but might make it more difficult for athletes to breathe because they trap CO2.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 9:18:42 PM 
Mountain West has cancelled fall football. Also, CUSA's Old Dominion has decided to cancel its fall sports season. The rest of CUSA is on, for now.


We will get by.
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We will survive.

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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 9:54:20 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
PhiTau74 wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
What is the evidence that this is the "right decision?" The data has shown that the virus is not that dangerous to college kids. I guess the MAC couldn't swing the financials so they played the virus fear card. Smart PR play, I suppose, since shutting down/cancelling is seen as the virtuous thing to do these days - especially because they beat other FBS conferences to the punch. But what's the long term cost of shutting down? Also, can someone please explain why kids are safer at home without supervision than on a college campus under supervision with medical treatment at the ready?

Why not play a conference schedule on ESPN family of networks? Limited or no crowd. Players can opt out without losing a year.

The conference is all but dead in my eyes.


For one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/08/athletes... /


That is an article littered with narrative, "may not," "concerned about," "raises the possibility," "many questions remain unanswered," and "nfectious-disease and cardiovascular experts do not have enough data to make conclusions about how covid-19 might affect an athlete’s heart."

Since that was the first piece of evidence you lead with - am I to presume that is your strongest piece of evidence?


No, it's the most recent piece of evidence. Six weeks ago CBS ran this story about the effects of the virus on the heart: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/sports-cardiologist-ex... /. Of note, is this passage:

"This particular virus causes more problems with the heart than any other virus so that's why we're being particularly careful," Dr. Phelan told CBS Sports. "That's why we're being more conservative in terms of our recommendations for return to play. We have data from hospitalized patients that show between seven and 33 percent of people will have some cardiac injury after getting COVID-19."

Trouble is, doctors are still discovering the multitude of ways that covid can f*ck up the human body. And now that younger folks are getting out and about more, the 18-49 age group has become the group with the highest infection rate. That's one reason why the infection rate is speeding up. The U.S. hit one million cases on April 29, two million on June 11, three million on July 9, four million on July 23 and five million yesterday. This is largely due to the denials that continue to come from the White House and from some state governors whose heads are firmly up their arses about the severity of the pandemic and the fallacy that young people are practically immune to the virus.

With luck, by spring there'll be a safe, effective vaccine to counter this virus. Until then, it's best to keep the kids out of harm's way.

The top 7 states for deaths “all” have “Democrats” as Governors. I guess the Democrats are pretty f..kingstupid.


Not true. Texas and Florida are in the top 7.



Sorry Mr. Swank but what you say is not true! The poster clearly said, Deaths. Florida is 8th and Texas 10th.. You would have been correct if the poster had said Cases.

But here is a truth, football won't be played this fall in Athens..

Last Edited: 8/10/2020 9:57:29 PM by MonroeClassmate

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 11:09:36 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
PhiTau74 wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
LuckySparrow wrote:
What is the evidence that this is the "right decision?" The data has shown that the virus is not that dangerous to college kids. I guess the MAC couldn't swing the financials so they played the virus fear card. Smart PR play, I suppose, since shutting down/cancelling is seen as the virtuous thing to do these days - especially because they beat other FBS conferences to the punch. But what's the long term cost of shutting down? Also, can someone please explain why kids are safer at home without supervision than on a college campus under supervision with medical treatment at the ready?

Why not play a conference schedule on ESPN family of networks? Limited or no crowd. Players can opt out without losing a year.

The conference is all but dead in my eyes.


For one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/08/athletes... /


That is an article littered with narrative, "may not," "concerned about," "raises the possibility," "many questions remain unanswered," and "nfectious-disease and cardiovascular experts do not have enough data to make conclusions about how covid-19 might affect an athlete’s heart."

Since that was the first piece of evidence you lead with - am I to presume that is your strongest piece of evidence?


No, it's the most recent piece of evidence. Six weeks ago CBS ran this story about the effects of the virus on the heart: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/sports-cardiologist-ex... /. Of note, is this passage:

"This particular virus causes more problems with the heart than any other virus so that's why we're being particularly careful," Dr. Phelan told CBS Sports. "That's why we're being more conservative in terms of our recommendations for return to play. We have data from hospitalized patients that show between seven and 33 percent of people will have some cardiac injury after getting COVID-19."

Trouble is, doctors are still discovering the multitude of ways that covid can f*ck up the human body. And now that younger folks are getting out and about more, the 18-49 age group has become the group with the highest infection rate. That's one reason why the infection rate is speeding up. The U.S. hit one million cases on April 29, two million on June 11, three million on July 9, four million on July 23 and five million yesterday. This is largely due to the denials that continue to come from the White House and from some state governors whose heads are firmly up their arses about the severity of the pandemic and the fallacy that young people are practically immune to the virus.

With luck, by spring there'll be a safe, effective vaccine to counter this virus. Until then, it's best to keep the kids out of harm's way.

The top 7 states for deaths “all” have “Democrats” as Governors. I guess the Democrats are pretty f..kingstupid.


Not true. Texas and Florida are in the top 7.



Sorry Mr. Swank but what you say is not true! The poster clearly said, Deaths. Florida is 8th and Texas 10th.. You would have been correct if the poster had said Cases.

But here is a truth, football won't be played this fall in Athens..



Sorry Bud but according to this CDC map, TX is 5 and FL is 6.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/c...

Last Edited: 8/10/2020 11:10:26 PM by Alan Swank

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/10/2020 11:15:07 PM 
Good reason to be cautious. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29633697...


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 11:44:02 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:
okay so Purdue is welcoming 40k kids to campus next week. several schools had 10's of thousands of kids on campuses today. how can Purdue keep 40k safe in a open environment but cant make football safe?


It's a contact issue. Theoretically, kids who are just going to class aren't blocking or tackling other students (including students from other schools during games), and aren't lining up shoulder-to-shoulder with four or five other students and within a couple feet of students from other schools. Another issue with student athletes is that they breathe deeply from exertion (and even over-exertion). Plastic shields on helmets would help but might make it more difficult for athletes to breathe because they trap CO2.


But theoretically if all kids are tested and tested negative. two kids who are both negative are going to make a positive? i can understand if you want to make this case against high school sports but for not what college is discussing. If all participants and everyone involved with football program tested twice per week. i would suggest to you they are much less like to get covid from football as say going to class with the general public. So that brings me back to if it is safe enough for people you are not testing regularly to go to school or work. it should not be unsafe for people with these protocols to play football at least not until you have evidence that shows they cant do it.

I am not saying it is safe i am not saying we should play i am saying shutting it down with really the only evidence you have is saying people following protocols are right now much more safe then people who aren't does not make sense.

if you let them practice let them hit. bring students back on campus and they cant control it. they should not play. My point is. right now all these schools are following protocols and really have virtually no outbreaks from kids who follow them. why not let them continue until their is evidence they cant do it.

when buffalo says they have given almost 900 tests to athletes and only 6 positives and none in a month doesn't make sense they cant play. maybe as they move forward we could see they could not. I just believe it is a liability issue not a safety one and if the universities or leagues say we don't want to play because we are afraid of being sued then lets not play lets just be honest about why we are not playing.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 1:40:36 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:


But theoretically if all kids are tested and tested negative. two kids who are both negative are going to make a positive? i can understand if you want to make this case against high school sports but for not what college is discussing. If all participants and everyone involved with football program tested twice per week. i would suggest to you they are much less like to get covid from football as say going to class with the general public.


This is definitely what the strategy would have to look like for college football to take place.

The problem is that the testing infrastructure is poor, which makes pulling the above off a) difficult and b) expensive.

Some context that's important:

1) There are currently two approved tests. The first is a rapid test (which gets results in 30 minutes), the second is the 'swab test' (which gives results in 5-7 days). I've purchased a bunch for employees of mine, and a safe estimate is $100 per test.

2) The rapid test is considered unreliable. So much so that many urgent care clinics -- most even -- choose not to offer them. The guidance with rapid testing is that you can take the positive results at face value, but not negative results. All negative results from a rapid test should be sent to a lab for further analysis, which means a 5-7 day delay.

3) If you have access to your own laboratory (which some large Universities may) you can get test results back much faster.

4) A conservative estimate for a single football team and various employees needed to run their operations would be 150 people who need regular testing. You're proposing doing that 2x a week. That's a 30k/week testing bill. Over the course of a shortened season, that's $400,000 for the tests alone.

5) Week 1 is upon you. It's Monday and you play Saturday. You have testing scheduled for Monday and Thursday that week. You test players Monday. Let's say you're very lucky, and you get results back Wednesday. You have a positive case, and due to contact tracing, have another 40 people who were potentially exposed because they were in the locker room at the same time, or live on the same floor. You quarantine and test those 40 immediately. You've increased that week's testing cost by 15%. When do you get those results back? What if you get the positive cases back on Thursday? How do you test before Saturday? Oh, and cool little bonus, now you realize that your testing costs aren't fixed. Exciting.

6) So because testing delays make this complicated -- and downright impossible if you can't get results for 5-7 days like the rest of the country -- you figure out special testing access. Maybe the University's hospital gives your tests priority. Maybe you pay LabCorp a lot to prioritize your tests. Now your testing costs are much higher.

7) You're also, you know, just playing football. While the unemployment rate is at 12%, employers are struggling with the same challenges getting people back to work, keeping them insured, and your student body is paying full tuition without any of the same safeguards, you're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into playing. . .football. When your mission is to educate, and you insist in the courts over and over that these kids are students first and athletes second.

8) And let's say you get testing priority. That means you're delaying others' test results so you can play football.


SVAC83 wrote:

So that brings me back to if it is safe enough for people you are not testing regularly to go to school or work. it should not be unsafe for people with these protocols to play football at least not until you have evidence that shows they cant do it.


It's not actually safe enough. We just sh*t the bed so badly making it safe enough that organizations all over the country -- schools, universities, employers -- are forced into choosing between survival and putting students/employees, etc. in a situation that is not yet safe. The debate is about how unsafe.

SVAC83 wrote:

I am not saying it is safe i am not saying we should play i am saying shutting it down with really the only evidence you have is saying people following protocols are right now much more safe then people who aren't does not make sense.


There's no question that access to regular testing and structure that forces social distancing and responsibility keeps people safer than those that don't have that. The question is why, in a society that's failed to provide that pretty much across the board, college football players are next in line.

And more specifically, for Universities, the question should be why athletics gets higher priority than academic programs when it comes to testing, social distancing, and the like. If I'm a student paying 70k a year for a mechanical engineering degree at Duke and I'm spending my days watching somebody on Zoom while my University spends a million dollars on testing resources so Duke's football team can go 3-7 in ACC play, I'm showing up at the President's office with a guillotine.

SVAC83 wrote:

when buffalo says they have given almost 900 tests to athletes and only 6 positives and none in a month doesn't make sense they cant play.


Take a look at University of Buffalo's balance sheet and then make a compelling case that they spent that $100,000 wisely. And then pitch they keep spending like that until January.


SVAC83 wrote:
I just believe it is a liability issue not a safety one and if the universities or leagues say we don't want to play because we are afraid of being sued then lets not play lets just be honest about why we are not playing.


It's not just a liability issue, though liability is a piece, too. It's also directly related with the fact that as a country we've failed to create the infrastructure that makes re-opening manageable and affordable. And when that's the case, you're forced to ask important questions about who gets the scant resources.

For a lot of people, the answer seems to be 'college football programs.' Personally, I feel like a much better answer is 'employers who were forced to lay off 20% of working adults.' Different strokes, I guess.

This is why it's downright silly when you said earlier that it's 'stupid to blame Trump for any of this.' There's not another western country on Earth without a national testing and contact tracing strategy. Do you think it's just coincidental that we find ourselves in the situation we're in?

Other countries did the hard work necessary to open up. We didn't. That's why the MAC isn't playing football. It's why the unemployment rate's basically been static for weeks. And it's why school districts all over the country have no idea how to safely reopen 6 months after the first case appeared in America. Because we didn't do any of the things we needed to do. Our leaders are responsible for that, which exactly why so many of the leaders who know how badly they f*cked this up spent yesterday trying to pressure colleges into playing football. Because they know who the failure lies with if football can't happen.






Last Edited: 8/11/2020 2:04:01 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 4:48:04 PM 
Actually, the testing problem is worse in some ways that what you describe. When you get exposed, you don't test positive immediately. It takes a few days. So, say you test on Monday and Thursday. A player gets exposed on Wednesday. He will not test positive on Thursday, but by Saturday he may be contagious.

To really make it work, you have to keep the athletes in a bubble. You can't let them go to class, or go out on the town, or even go out to eat.

BTW, the lab work on the PCR tests does not actually take 5-7 days. There may be backlogs in some places, so that the elapsed time is that long, but it isn't the lab work, it's a queue. I had my brain tickled, er, had a swab done, last month at the state drive-thru testing site, and the test took about 1 minute to do, and I got the result back in 24 hours. (I was negative).

For those who haven't had the test done yet, they shove the swab far up into your sinus, and swab it around. You may cough or sneeze, or cry. At the very least, your eyes will water, and you will discover a part of your anatomy that you didn't know was there. It doesn't hurt, but I would describe it as mildly unpleasant, but not long lasting.

Alan Swank wrote:
Sorry Bud but according to this CDC map, TX is 5 and FL is 6.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/c...

In my opinion, the only real measurement is Deaths per Million people. By that measure the worst are:
New Jersey 1798
New York 1689
Massachusetts 1270
Connecticut 1246
Rhode Island 959
Louisiana 928
Washington DC 840
Michigan 654
Mississippi 653
Illinois 621

Florida is at 398, and Texas is at 301

Last Edited: 8/11/2020 4:53:47 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 8:31:02 PM 
L.C. wrote:

In my opinion, the only real measurement is Deaths per Million people. By that measure the worst are:
New Jersey 1798
New York 1689
Massachusetts 1270
Connecticut 1246
Rhode Island 959
Louisiana 928
Washington DC 840
Michigan 654
Mississippi 653
Illinois 621

Florida is at 398, and Texas is at 301


I haven't checked the breakdown recently,but around half of the deaths in NJ were in Nursing Homes and other Long Term Care Facilities,including the State run Veterans Homes.

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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 9:47:47 PM 
So my questions would be why don't we say we are not playing because it is too expensive to test our athletes. if that is the case don't play.

But i have a friend whose daughter returned to campus yesterday and will be taking full in person instruction. they were billed $600 and told there daughter would be tested 20 times over the semester. give me a little help but that is going to be more then one time a week right?

if it is because test results take too long then say that and cancel the season i can live with that. But that is not what anyone is saying. i have had 5 employees who have had to quarantine. and be tested because they were contact traced to a positive case. each one of those people had there results within 72 hours. 2 of them got results back in 48 hours 1 in less then 24 hours. So yes i know there are some testing nightmares but not all.

but i keep hearing is we cant do it because what we don't know. it is my understanding that now we are worried about a heart condition in athletes. I believe 5 athletes in the big 10 foot print have developed this condition. it is my understanding that each of these athletes did not have symptoms. And there condition went on a long time.

Right now on campus if you test positive very soon there after you are given a EKG and other tests to check for this condition. if the condition is found early it is considered to not be a problem. it is my understanding that dozens of athletes every year suffer from this condition.

If one of these kids our home and test positive are they going to get all these additional test right away?

Now i have been in and out of ear shot of the radio today but it is my understanding that Barry Alvarez from Wisconsin. Says Wisconsin will practice 20 hours a week this fall just like they would normally do in season protocols will continue to be followed. The big 10 is expected to have a fall period in September or October that allows full contract drills and inner team scrimmages just like spring football. So the danger is just on game day?

i understand this may change but would it really of hurt them to just continue down the road of trying to get to games until it was proved they could not?


I mean this is how we make discoveries and what makes this country great is we push the envelope. I mean if there was hard medical data but there is not.

I have only had like 14 days off since march. i cannot always social distance at work. We follow protocols i have almost 100 people in a couple of different locations not one positive. May that change yes. But it is my guess if it changes it will be do to someone not following the guidelines not because it cant be done. I just feel the same way about football.

If you don't want them to play because there kids. i get that don't let them play but tell them you are kids we don't trust you to follow the rules. I can respect that but to say there are just to many unknowns well there are still unknowns about concussions but we still play.

I just believe there is something else besides health concerns because if it was just health concerns then don't let the NFL Play. Don't let anyone play.

So if you had to let 20% of your people go is it because the economy? or you had to many people to socially distance? if you had the space could you or would you hire them back tomorrow?

I am just asking because i have no idea? why some businesses cant operate safely with the same number of people even if they have to change the way they do things. I am sure there are very legitimate reasons i just stay busy at what i do i don't really have time to figure out what other people can and cannot do.











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