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Topic:  Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable

Topic:  Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/25/2019 8:38:28 PM 
Frank was a known quantity coming to OHIO and it is without question that he has been successful. He hasn't quite gotten us to the top of the mountain, but I think nearly every metric would show that he has been a definite success for OHIO.

I thought of this when I saw that Bob Davie and New Mexico announced their parting at the end of the season. It was a similar model to OHIO hiring Solich. He was head coach at Notre Dame (where he really never hit great success) and had name recognition going to a perennial bottom-feeder. He was unable to find any real success, compiling a losing record.

Similar with Terry Bowden at Akron after having success at Auburn. He, like Solich, was a former national coach of the year, but was unable to build a winner at Akron.

Bobby Ross, of Georgia Tech and NFL coaching success, might be a similar attempt at Army, but he only lasted three seasons and did nothing to return the program to dominance.

So, maybe Frank's model is not something that other small schools can look at and attempt. If Frank were to retire tomorrow, is there anybody who could be create a comparable situation?

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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/25/2019 9:11:19 PM 
finnOhio wrote:


So, maybe Frank's model is not something that other small schools can look at and attempt. If Frank were to retire tomorrow, is there anybody who could be create a comparable situation?



Jim Mcelwain at CMU looks like he is off to a good start.

The examples of this seem few and far between though.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/25/2019 9:28:51 PM 
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU

Last Edited: 11/25/2019 9:34:41 PM by colobobcat66

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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/25/2019 11:01:51 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


In the MAC past there was
Bill Mallory (Northern Illinois) - Successful
Dick Crum (Kent) - Unsuccessful

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/26/2019 10:13:57 AM 
I have been following the Bob Davies situation since moving to Albuquerque three years ago. Davies is now owed a $900,000 buyout this year. If the school had waited another year, they would have owed him a $500,000 buyout next year. Davies was suspended for thirty days at one point due to allegations that he physically assaulted players, obstructed a rape investigation and frequently engaged in racist comments. Davies was also criticized locally for recruiting Texas based players over local New Mexico players.

For those who are not familiar with New Mexico, it is a relatively small state population wise, and basically walks to the beat of its own drummer. The first Territorial Governor of New Mexico, Lew Wallace, was quoted as saying that: "All things based on experience elsewhere...fail in New Mexico." What I find similar about Albuquerque and Athens (have grown up in the ladder) is that the place lacks the kind of quality walk on players that can be found in similar sized Universities that are located in major cities around the country.

Davies was also forced to go to an option style running game, which seems to be because he lacked the level of athletes needed to really open up a passing game. As a result, they weren't all that flashy offensively. The Bobcats, by comparison, have had a pretty good defensive unit in recent history (though this year's efforts in that regard have turned that trend around a bit).

Despite Davies losing record, I do believe that he has actually won more games than any other coach before at New Mexico University, but that might merely be because of the length of time that he was employed here.

When you compare the two, I think that you have to give Solich quite a few props for being able to turn out a consistently winning program in an area of the country where you have to convince people to come from somewhere else.

One gets the feeling that Solich likes to be at Ohio, while one never really got the feeling that Davies would have stayed here in ABQ should things have turned out differently for New Mexico University under his guidance.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/26/2019 12:59:40 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


I wouldn't really classify Freeze or Kiffin in this model. They're both trying for bigger jobs...and could get them soon.

Butch Davis at FIU
Bob Davie at New Mexico
Larry Coker at UTSA (no longer there, varying degrees of "success")



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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/26/2019 1:29:16 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


I wouldn't really classify Freeze or Kiffin in this model. They're both trying for bigger jobs...and could get them soon.

Butch Davis at FIU
Bob Davie at New Mexico
Larry Coker at UTSA (no longer there, varying degrees of "success")


Youíre probably right, I was just throwing out some names if guys who have gone lower division. The thing that may have kept Frank here more than anything was his age. He was 60 or so when he came here. That might have turned off some programs, others probably not. Did he ever get any interest from other teams after he joined Ohio or did he have no interest at all in leaving?

Last Edited: 11/26/2019 1:31:54 PM by colobobcat66

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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/26/2019 5:33:37 PM 
I am going to try very hard to forget that someone just equated Frank Solich to Terry Bowden, even if in a seemingly reasonable football context.
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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/26/2019 11:46:55 PM 
finnOhio wrote:

Similar with Terry Bowden at Akron after having success at Auburn. He, like Solich, was a former national coach of the year, but was unable to build a winner at Akron.


Bowden did a fair job at Akron considering how tough that job is. He won 8 games in 2015 including a bowl win, a first for Akron in both categories. Playing for Akron has no appeal beyond a 30 mile radius.


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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left lane, hammer down
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 12:07:11 AM 
Something else to think about. With the current budget cuts in academic areas does OU really want to look for a new coach? The academic area are pointing to athletics as an area to cut. To replace Frank would cost what ?? 200 or 300 K ?? Anyone think Dr. Nellis wants to defend a $$ 750 K coach ???
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 3:29:26 AM 
left lane, hammer down wrote:
Something else to think about. With the current budget cuts in academic areas does OU really want to look for a new coach? The academic area are pointing to athletics as an area to cut. To replace Frank would cost what ?? 200 or 300 K ?? Anyone think Dr. Nellis wants to defend a $$ 750 K coach ???


That's what I thought about what the new basketball coach's salary would be, but as it turned out he's making more than Saul. But I can assure you that the level of hostility toward athletics at Ohio is probably at an all time high. Many would go beyond making budget cuts and completely eliminate athletics. There is an incredible disconnect here between the athletic dept and their constituents--faculty and students. There is a lack of loyalty and commitment to institutions as people look out for number one. Although we have games from time to time with a good student turnout, that doesnt reflect the norm on this campus. People arent going to sacrifice their time to go support teams that supposedly represent them, when people now see college as a place you go to squeeze as much out as you can for yourself. They couldn't care less about someone "representing" the institution of "college". I honestly don't see this changing. I think the future is very bleak for mid major athletics.

The situation is not as bad at high majors because many students tend to attend those schools to enjoy big time athletics, plus high private fund raising means those athletic depts arent as dependent on student fees as mid majors.

Last Edited: 11/27/2019 3:32:32 AM by Jeff McKinney

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Joe McKinley
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 5:47:57 AM 
Interesting perspective, Jeff. What do those critics have to say about diversity and equity as a core values of a university? Assuming the goal is to eliminate grant-based ICA for some, what is their investment strategy to recruit/retain/graduate students of color and women to replace them? Would they reduce the portion of the student fee going to athletics as a rebate of sorts to other students and, if so, how do they make up for the greater than 50% of those funds going back to the university for direct instructional costs (>$7 million) and indirect line room/board (>$1 million)? What is their strategy to engage and retain the sponsorships/memberships currently going to athletics which also benefit other university priorities (ex. - Pepsi contract)?

I agree, Joe. If there is ever an actual conversation or debate among the parties, your points would be salient for sure. Problem is getting people to actually listen to each other.

Last Edited: 11/27/2019 10:46:07 PM by Jeff McKinney

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 6:51:45 AM 
TV money is propping up mid major athletics. NCAA Tournament brings the conferences a lot of money. Some of that money is from athletic performance other is matching money for each grant in aid offered. It amounts to over a million dollar check for the lowest on the totem poll. CFP money acts in addition to that for the G5 with the lowest picking up 2 million. Licensing deals are better when you have G5 football. If anything we will see stagnation in salaries at the mid major levels as a way of keeping costs in check.


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 9:26:44 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


I wouldn't really classify Freeze or Kiffin in this model. They're both trying for bigger jobs...and could get them soon.

Butch Davis at FIU
Bob Davie at New Mexico
Larry Coker at UTSA (no longer there, varying degrees of "success")


Youíre probably right, I was just throwing out some names if guys who have gone lower division. The thing that may have kept Frank here more than anything was his age. He was 60 or so when he came here. That might have turned off some programs, others probably not. Did he ever get any interest from other teams after he joined Ohio or did he have no interest at all in leaving?



Interesting question that I don't have an answer to. I'm sure his age turned off a lot of power programs. But some lower tier programs just looking to stabilize a basement dweller? I could easily see someone asking about Frank after his first couple years here. Thinking someone like Kansas, who just hired Les Miles, or someone like Illinois or Colorado.

Last Edited: 11/27/2019 9:27:22 AM by GoCats105



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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 11:13:31 AM 
finnOhio wrote:

Similar with Terry Bowden at Akron after having success at Auburn. He, like Solich, was a former national coach of the year...


Wait, Solich was National Coach of the Year?


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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OUbobcat9092
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 11:29:00 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
finnOhio wrote:

Similar with Terry Bowden at Akron after having success at Auburn. He, like Solich, was a former national coach of the year...


Wait, Solich was National Coach of the Year?


Nope - Solich was named the Big 12 Coach of the Year in 1999 and 2001, and was one of seven finalists for the Paul "Bear" Bryant Award in 2001.


Bring Back Men's Track & Field

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/27/2019 5:33:26 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


I wouldn't really classify Freeze or Kiffin in this model. They're both trying for bigger jobs...and could get them soon.

Butch Davis at FIU
Bob Davie at New Mexico
Larry Coker at UTSA (no longer there, varying degrees of "success")


Youíre probably right, I was just throwing out some names if guys who have gone lower division. The thing that may have kept Frank here more than anything was his age. He was 60 or so when he came here. That might have turned off some programs, others probably not. Did he ever get any interest from other teams after he joined Ohio or did he have no interest at all in leaving?



Interesting question that I don't have an answer to. I'm sure his age turned off a lot of power programs. But some lower tier programs just looking to stabilize a basement dweller? I could easily see someone asking about Frank after his first couple years here. Thinking someone like Kansas, who just hired Les Miles, or someone like Illinois or Colorado.


People do know the answer to this.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/28/2019 12:31:54 PM 
OUbobcat9092 wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
finnOhio wrote:

Similar with Terry Bowden at Akron after having success at Auburn. He, like Solich, was a former national coach of the year...


Wait, Solich was National Coach of the Year?


Nope - Solich was named the Big 12 Coach of the Year in 1999 and 2001, and was one of seven finalists for the Paul "Bear" Bryant Award in 2001.


Solich was Home Depot Coach of year in 1999. Selected by ESPN and CBS folks. Award has been around since 1994
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OhioBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 11/30/2019 9:29:40 AM 
I think the Frank & Ohio marriage is unique and stands alone. Itís been the perfect combination of timing and commitment that not only make the example unique, but make it stand alone and one that would be tough to duplicate for any other school for these reason:

1) You start with Frankís success. To this day I canít believe a school - like Nebraska - would cut a guy loose who produced the kind of results that he did. Yes I know whose footsteps he was following, but take a good long look at what the results have been at Nebraska ever since and where that program has fallen to from where it once was WITH Frank. Nebraska now is, and got exactly what it deserved, for that move and has been dream chasing ever since.

2) You needed a school that lacked a lot of overall success. Thatís where Ohio came in. Aside from the Grobe years, there were A LOT of lean years in Athens. Ohio fit the bill perfectly for a school desperately in need of some sort of sustained success.

3) Frank has roots in Ohio. Itís not like he was headed off to Moscow, Idaho or Las Cruces, New Mexico, he was coming home to a fertile recruiting ground and not drifting off to a new, foreign place. This was important based on recruitment and putting together a staff. Remember, Frank once said prior to Ohio that he wouldnít go to a school that didnít have a major airport. Need I say more?

4) Frankís age. Letís face it, if Frank were 10-20 years younger, someone would/could have come and swiped him away from Ohio. If he were a decade or two younger heíd have lasted at Ohio for 5 years, not 15, before someone made him an offer too good to turn down.

5) Frankís excellent salary for a MAC coach. This comes into play based on what he made prior to Ohio when he earned his payday, coupled with the fact heís been earning over a million dollars every two years at Ohio. Frank has reeled in millions and millions of dollars in his tenure at Ohio. Heís still making a tremendous amount of money and wasnít in need of it having been at a cash cow prior to Ohio. Money wasnít and isnít an issue for Frank, so it greatly eliminated the threat of losing him.

6) Frankís coaching staff that remainded intact for years. Itís almost unheard of and unseen at any level to see it happen like that at ANY school, let alone at a Group of Five school that experienced that much success. Assistants leave for greener pastures or are picked off by better programs all the time. It rarely happened here and in fact, Ohio has the longest tenured core of coordinators nationally for a while. It was unheard of for a smaller school with that kind of success.

7) Frankís at a place that isnít/wonít run him out of here. While Ohio has good fans and support from alums, itís apples and oranges compared to some of the power programs out there. The fans, alums, donors and media carry little weight in SE Ohio when unhappy and disgruntled as it does is other places. Frank is safe here, as he should be, because of the success heís had. You didnít and wonít ever see Ohio do what Nebraska did when it had success (but could have had more), but the same my not be said had Frank had similar success at a bigger-market school as he did at Ohio. He very well could have worn out his welcome in 15 years at a lot of other places.

With all that said, itís been sort of the perfect storm of circumstances that has led to the perfect marriage. Itís a unique situation thatís hard to compare and one youíll be hard pressed to find again based on all these factors.
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ChiCat2018
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:55:37 PM 
BryanHall wrote:
finnOhio wrote:


So, maybe Frank's model is not something that other small schools can look at and attempt. If Frank were to retire tomorrow, is there anybody who could be create a comparable situation?



Jim Mcelwain at CMU looks like he is off to a good start.

The examples of this seem few and far between though.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 1:00:51 PM by ChiCat2018

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/5/2019 4:46:12 AM 
left lane, hammer down wrote:
Something else to think about. With the current budget cuts in academic areas does OU really want to look for a new coach? The academic area are pointing to athletics as an area to cut. To replace Frank would cost what ?? 200 or 300 K ?? Anyone think Dr. Nellis wants to defend a $$ 750 K coach ???


The lowest MAC head coaching salary is currently 450k. The average FBS head coach is making over 2.7 million. It gets to be not just the salary but how much the assistants are making. A new staff right off the street I'd imagine the HC will want 750k and the assistants more than what Ohio currently pays.

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CFBCoachesSalaries.htm


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/5/2019 6:56:34 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
left lane, hammer down wrote:
Something else to think about. With the current budget cuts in academic areas does OU really want to look for a new coach? The academic area are pointing to athletics as an area to cut. To replace Frank would cost what ?? 200 or 300 K ?? Anyone think Dr. Nellis wants to defend a $$ 750 K coach ???


The lowest MAC head coaching salary is currently 450k. The average FBS head coach is making over 2.7 million. It gets to be not just the salary but how much the assistants are making. A new staff right off the street I'd imagine the HC will want 750k and the assistants more than what Ohio currently pays.

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CFBCoachesSalaries.htm


Canít say that the MAC is spending too much money on football compared to other conferences when it has 10 of the lowest 20 salaries for their head coaches,
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/5/2019 7:17:53 AM 
"Ohio Universityís head coach for menís basketball, Saul Phillips, will earn the highest salary during the 2018-19 academic year.
For the last five years, Phillips has been at the top of the list with an annual salary of $572,520. Frank Solich, the football coach, will be earning $507,715.
OUís president, Duane Nellis, comes in third with the highest salary of $475,000 at the university. As he enters his second academic year as president, he will not be seeing a pay increase.
Eight of the 10 employees who will earn the highest salaries at OU during the 2018-19 academic year also had the highest salaries during the 2017-18 academic year. Nico Karagosian, the vice president for University Advancement and interim Executive Vice President and Provost Elizabeth Sayrs are new to the list and replaced Stephen Golding, senior vice president for Strategic Initiatives, and David Descanter, the former interim Executive Vice President and Provost.
The top 10 OU salaries for the 2018-19 academic year combined is $3,664,245 ó approximately $14,000 less than last yearís list of top salaries."


The above post is from The Post for the ACADEMIC 2018-19 YEAR.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/5/2019 10:41:25 AM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
"Ohio Universityís head coach for menís basketball, Saul Phillips, will earn the highest salary during the 2018-19 academic year.
For the last five years, Phillips has been at the top of the list with an annual salary of $572,520. Frank Solich, the football coach, will be earning $507,715.
OUís president, Duane Nellis, comes in third with the highest salary of $475,000 at the university. As he enters his second academic year as president, he will not be seeing a pay increase.
Eight of the 10 employees who will earn the highest salaries at OU during the 2018-19 academic year also had the highest salaries during the 2017-18 academic year. Nico Karagosian, the vice president for University Advancement and interim Executive Vice President and Provost Elizabeth Sayrs are new to the list and replaced Stephen Golding, senior vice president for Strategic Initiatives, and David Descanter, the former interim Executive Vice President and Provost.
The top 10 OU salaries for the 2018-19 academic year combined is $3,664,245 ó approximately $14,000 less than last yearís list of top salaries."


The above post is from The Post for the ACADEMIC 2018-19 YEAR.


With Ohioís declining student attendance, slumping annual giving and declining rankings, you wonder if anybody listed is deserving of their salaries. Over the last 7-8 years and counting, Ohioís lower each year in the most visible college ranking. Weíre closing in on Kent and Miamiís 100 spots higher.
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Frank Solich model is not easily repeatable
   Posted: 12/5/2019 11:03:14 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Hugh Freeze is trying it at Liberty, too early to tell
And Bo Pelini at YSU
Dan Hawkins at UC Davis
How about lane Kiffin at FAU


I wouldn't really classify Freeze or Kiffin in this model. They're both trying for bigger jobs...and could get them soon.

Butch Davis at FIU
Bob Davie at New Mexico
Larry Coker at UTSA (no longer there, varying degrees of "success")


Youíre probably right, I was just throwing out some names if guys who have gone lower division. The thing that may have kept Frank here more than anything was his age. He was 60 or so when he came here. That might have turned off some programs, others probably not. Did he ever get any interest from other teams after he joined Ohio or did he have no interest at all in leaving?



Interesting question that I don't have an answer to. I'm sure his age turned off a lot of power programs. But some lower tier programs just looking to stabilize a basement dweller? I could easily see someone asking about Frank after his first couple years here. Thinking someone like Kansas, who just hired Les Miles, or someone like Illinois or Colorado.


People do know the answer to this.


When I attended an event at the Mobile Bowl (GMAC, I think), our first bowl game under Solich, McDavis mentioned in a gathering that Minnesota was looking at him and that OHIO would do everything they could to hold on to him.
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