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Topic:  OT: The Kill/Fleck feud

Topic:  OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/20/2019 10:59:02 AM 
Jerry doesn't like the way PJ handled things when he took over at Minn. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2019/0... /


Actually, the phrase is "Ohio on the Charles."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/20/2019 12:57:00 PM 
Well let's see 10 players accused sexual assault, a threatened boycott and Kill's buddy at the helm. Yeah, I'd say from the outside the culture did need changed.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/20/2019 6:34:33 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Well let's see 10 players accused sexual assault, a threatened boycott and Kill's buddy at the helm. Yeah, I'd say from the outside the culture did need changed.

I heard about that case, but never followed it. How did it turn out? Were they convicted?

Edit - I did some searches, and this was the latest I found:
https://kstp.com/news/9-football-players-suing-university... /

Last Edited: 2/20/2019 8:58:37 PM by L.C.


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 9:35:01 AM 
L.C. wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Well let's see 10 players accused sexual assault, a threatened boycott and Kill's buddy at the helm. Yeah, I'd say from the outside the culture did need changed.

I heard about that case, but never followed it. How did it turn out? Were they convicted?

Edit - I did some searches, and this was the latest I found:
https://kstp.com/news/9-football-players-suing-university... /


No charges were ever filed by the police, the University found 5 violated the student code of conduct and were dismissed from school. 4 others were readmitted upon appeal. For a variety of reasons Fleck has kicked many of the older players from the roster in the past two years.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 11:29:42 AM 
One of my Minnesota cousins wrote me about this article. He says it's just another indication that Fleck is a bad fit for Minnesota. He says that Fleck does not fit into the Minnesota culture and would be better as the coach of UNLV or Miami(Fl). He calls, fleck a "clown" and a "jackass." I suppose if he wins the B1G that it might modify my cousin's assessment, but he really doesn't like the guy and has told me this on numerous occasions.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 12:21:10 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
One of my Minnesota cousins wrote me about this article. He says it's just another indication that Fleck is a bad fit for Minnesota. He says that Fleck does not fit into the Minnesota culture and would be better as the coach of UNLV or Miami(Fl). He calls, fleck a "clown" and a "jackass." I suppose if he wins the B1G that it might modify my cousin's assessment, but he really doesn't like the guy and has told me this on numerous occasions.


Well, let's see 10 of Kill's guys are accused of sexual harassment, 5 of which are kicked out of school, countless other of Kill's recurits have been suspended or kicked out of school and this is a problem with Fleck? Sorry, don't buy that. If any other school was having those issues there would be an outcry to change the culture. Kill's buddy had his chance, he failed. Maybe Kill wanted to name the replacement to his replacement, but it's simply time for Kill to move on.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 1:01:53 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
One of my Minnesota cousins wrote me about this article. He says it's just another indication that Fleck is a bad fit for Minnesota. He says that Fleck does not fit into the Minnesota culture and would be better as the coach of UNLV or Miami(Fl). He calls, fleck a "clown" and a "jackass." I suppose if he wins the B1G that it might modify my cousin's assessment, but he really doesn't like the guy and has told me this on numerous occasions.


Well, let's see 10 of Kill's guys are accused of sexual harassment, 5 of which are kicked out of school, countless other of Kill's recurits have been suspended or kicked out of school and this is a problem with Fleck? Sorry, don't buy that. If any other school was having those issues there would be an outcry to change the culture. Kill's buddy had his chance, he failed. Maybe Kill wanted to name the replacement to his replacement, but it's simply time for Kill to move on.


While Kill is obviously upset about the situation, there are times to just move on. He couldn’t and didn’t. That’s his style I guess. Someone long ago told me about the old saying about not burning your bridges. It kind of makes him look like a sour grapes guy, but he has to live with it. No doubt some will support his actions as being passionate about what he believes in.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 6:38:55 PM 
According to my cousin, the major problem with Fleck at the U of M is the a cultural thing. He used a term that I found strange, but he said, Fleck isn't "Minnesota nice," but an "asshole." Here's the complete quote, referring first to the article linked to in this thread: "Further proof the guy is a total and complete ASSHOLE. Did I say asshole? I think the thing that will sunder him is that his behavior is really antithetical to 'Minnesota nice" . . . Disrespectful."

I have 19 first-cousins in the Twin Cities, and this particular cousin, while being more outspoken than most of the rest, pretty much expresses all of their feelings toward Fleck. As I said, they will probably mollify these feelings if he wins the B1G, but right now he's persona non grata in their eyes. I suspect there are many other grads of the U and its fans who feel the same way.

Edit: Virtually all of my cousins are graduates with one or more degrees from "The U."

Last Edited: 2/21/2019 6:41:44 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 6:55:32 PM 
Funny, a place that employs a Pitino finds Fleck arrogant. Interesting
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/21/2019 7:28:21 PM 
Is he like his father? I don't really know much about him. And, it's basketball, U of M is a football school.

Also, I found on Wikipedia, a definition of "Minnesota nice," which I'll admit I'd never heard of before, even though it's my natal state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice

"The stereotypical behavior of people from Minnesota to be courteous, reserved, and mild-mannered, is popularly known as Minnesota nice. The cultural characteristics of 'Minnesota nice' include polite friendliness, an aversion to confrontation, passive aggressiveness, a tendency toward understatement, a disinclination to make a fuss or stand out, emotional restraint, and self-deprecation."


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Valley Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/22/2019 9:39:37 AM 
I had the opportunity to listen to and then meet Coach Fleck on two occasions. He really likes himself. That causes a level of likability but overall he’s an arrogant footballl coach no shocker. I asked him if he thought he would be speaking to such a large groups if Greg Windham doesn’t throw that pick in the MAC title game. He smiled and said of course I had the better team. I wished him luck rowing in Minnesota.
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Brian Smith
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/22/2019 2:32:40 PM 
Minnesota Nice is pretty much the midwest version of the south's Bless Your Heart.

I hate both. Just tell me off. Don't wrap it in bacon when you insult me.

Fake niceness also creates hidden resentment deep inside people that they vent in other, awful ways. Or suffer with until that heart attack hits them 20 years before it should.

As for P.J. Fleck being a jerk, most coaches are jerks. Even if they don't know it. You kinda have to have a God complex to even get to that position at that level. They're like pilots and surgeons. The ones that don't stand out.

Last Edited: 2/22/2019 2:41:40 PM by Brian Smith


Been kicking up sparks/we set the flames free/The windows are locked now so what'll it be?/A house on fire or a rising sea?

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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/22/2019 4:00:03 PM 
I think it's fair to say that Fleck is pretty self-absorbed and that his style isn't for everyone. And I think that Jerry Kill is entitled to think that way if that's his belief.

However, when you are the coach once removed and go on air to rant about the incumbent coach it's just going to come off as sour grapes. It's going to look even worse when your program wasn't exactly squeaky clean and you didn't have a spectacular record.

As weak as the Big 17 West or however many they have now is compared to the East, it would be a minor miracle for Fleck to get the Gophers to Indy for the conference championship game. Wisconsin will bounce back, Northwestern is always a threat as is Iowa.

Mid-tier bowls and 7-5 to 8-4 is pretty close to the ceiling there in football.


Ohio-The State University

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/22/2019 4:37:47 PM 
I agree that U of M has a ceiling, or at least a perceived ceiling, in the B1G. Their mascot name change is kind of an indication of their glorying in past glory they are doubtful will ever repeat. The term "Golden Gophers" used to be reserved to refer only to the teams of Bernie Bierman in the 1930s that won something like 7 league championships in a decade. In other eras of Minnesota football teams were just referred to as "Gophers." Then sometime around 1995 (don't remember exactly when) they decided that all of their teams were "Golden Gophers" and that became the nickname. And, of course, their mascot was "Goldy the Gopher," so it kind of fit right in. However, to me this was disrespectful the true "Golden Gopher" era (when my Mom was a student there) and at the same time reflected a sense that they had to harking back to the reflected glory of the past because they could not create a new glory in their present.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/23/2019 9:55:53 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I agree that U of M has a ceiling, or at least a perceived ceiling, in the B1G. Their mascot name change is kind of an indication of their glorying in past glory they are doubtful will ever repeat. The term "Golden Gophers" used to be reserved to refer only to the teams of Bernie Bierman in the 1930s that won something like 7 league championships in a decade. In other eras of Minnesota football teams were just referred to as "Gophers." Then sometime around 1995 (don't remember exactly when) they decided that all of their teams were "Golden Gophers" and that became the nickname. And, of course, their mascot was "Goldy the Gopher," so it kind of fit right in. However, to me this was disrespectful the true "Golden Gopher" era (when my Mom was a student there) and at the same time reflected a sense that they had to harking back to the reflected glory of the past because they could not create a new glory in their present.


Funny, my 1988 Minnesota Media Guide claims the term Golden Gophers came from long time radio announcer Halsey Hall where he started referring to the team as the “Golden Gophers” due to the color of their uniforms. And they officially changed their name under Bierman later. But Hall coined the moniker due to uniforms. However, I do always enjoy your revisionist History. No wonder you vote the way you do 😎🤦🏼‍♂️
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/24/2019 2:51:59 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
I agree that U of M has a ceiling, or at least a perceived ceiling, in the B1G. Their mascot name change is kind of an indication of their glorying in past glory they are doubtful will ever repeat. The term "Golden Gophers" used to be reserved to refer only to the teams of Bernie Bierman in the 1930s that won something like 7 league championships in a decade. In other eras of Minnesota football teams were just referred to as "Gophers." Then sometime around 1995 (don't remember exactly when) they decided that all of their teams were "Golden Gophers" and that became the nickname. And, of course, their mascot was "Goldy the Gopher," so it kind of fit right in. However, to me this was disrespectful the true "Golden Gopher" era (when my Mom was a student there) and at the same time reflected a sense that they had to harking back to the reflected glory of the past because they could not create a new glory in their present.


Funny, my 1988 Minnesota Media Guide claims the term Golden Gophers came from long time radio announcer Halsey Hall where he started referring to the team as the “Golden Gophers” due to the color of their uniforms. And they officially changed their name under Bierman later. But Hall coined the moniker due to uniforms. However, I do always enjoy your revisionist History. No wonder you vote the way you do 😎🤦🏼‍♂️


Don't believe everything you read in a media guide, or what you watch on MSNBC!

Plus, it's what my mother told me, and you don't want to contradict Momma, do you?

Last Edited: 2/24/2019 3:00:18 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/24/2019 3:02:33 PM 
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report. I still disagree with your historical assessment that’s not based on documentation, but momma’s oral history.

Last Edited: 2/24/2019 4:17:12 PM by BillyTheCat

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/24/2019 3:16:57 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


HA Ha! Thanks, I needed that. Funniest thing I've heard all week.

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/24/2019 4:25:06 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/24/2019 5:35:31 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.



I agree, they always cover both sides of the issue and have expert special guest. Makes them the most credible every time.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 12:31:47 AM 

BillyTheCat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.



I agree, they always cover both sides of the issue and have expert special guest. Makes them the most credible every time. 

Am I in an alternative universe?  Have I entered the Twilight Zone?  It's not that I disagree, it's just that some folks here are not sticking to my stereotypes of them, and that makes me uncomfortable! smiley cool indecision


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 11:56:15 AM 
Regardless of what people think of Fleck, the folks on national talk radio seem to be labeling Kill a sour grapes guy. Not surprised at all.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 1:34:16 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

The sad thing is that news services keep getting more politicized each year. According this from 2014:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21... /
Extreme Right: Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck
Extreme Left: New Yorker, Al Jareeza, NPR, Colbert, NY Times

Right: Fox
Left: BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Washington Post, Economist, Politico

Slight Right: Wall Street Journal, Yahoo
Slight Left: MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, Google, ABC, Bloomberg, ABC, USA Today

Closest to the center would be Yahoo, WSJ, CBS, ABC, USA Today, and Bloomberg


I suspect that if a similar study was done today, those on the left have moved further left, and those on the right have moved further right, and the center is even more desolate. Worse, those on the left think their new is unbiased, and those on the right think their news is unbiased, and neither seem to realize the extent that bias and opinion have replaced actual news. I would also point out that in 2014, while the number of services on the extreme left and extreme right are about equal, the number of news services on the left, or slight left vastly outnumber those on the right and slight right. I suspect that's true today as well.

Last Edited: 2/25/2019 1:41:18 PM by L.C.


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 1:56:42 PM 
L.C. wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

The sad thing is that news services keep getting more politicized each year. According this from 2014:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21... /
Extreme Right: Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck
Extreme Left: New Yorker, Al Jareeza, NPR, Colbert, NY Times

Right: Fox
Left: BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Washington Post, Economist, Politico

Slight Right: Wall Street Journal, Yahoo
Slight Left: MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, Google, ABC, Bloomberg, ABC, USA Today

Closest to the center would be Yahoo, WSJ, CBS, ABC, USA Today, and Bloomberg


I suspect that if a similar study was done today, those on the left have moved further left, and those on the right have moved further right, and the center is even more desolate. Worse, those on the left think their new is unbiased, and those on the right think their news is unbiased, and neither seem to realize the extent that bias and opinion have replaced actual news. I would also point out that in 2014, while the number of services on the extreme left and extreme right are about equal, the number of news services on the left, or slight left vastly outnumber those on the right and slight right. I suspect that's true today as well.


I listen to a lot of NPR and they are about as straight-forward news as it gets. more news from both sides, less commentary. Also, I realize Fox has some good news personalities but their commentary programming is so completely insane right wingnut, it sullies their reputation as a network to any slightly normal person. Fox and Friends, hannity, tucker? none of these folks have a relationship with reality.

Also, the myth that the left dominates media overall doesn't hold water just based on who you might watch on tv nationally. if you listen to the radio or watch local news, these organizations are overrun with religious and right wing propaganda.

Last Edited: 2/25/2019 1:59:20 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 2:25:37 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
I listen to a lot of NPR and they are about as straight-forward news as it gets. more news from both sides, less commentary. Also, I realize Fox has some good news personalities but their commentary programming is so completely insane right wingnut, it sullies their reputation as a network to any slightly normal person. Fox and Friends, hannity, tucker? none of these folks have a relationship with reality.

Also, the myth that the left dominates media overall doesn't hold water just based on who you might watch on tv nationally. if you listen to the radio or watch local news, these organizations are overrun with religious and right wing propaganda.

I also like NPR, and I agree that, unlike many, they do make a deliberate effort to include differing opinions. Still, the main thrust of the stories on NPR does remain liberal. I suspect that since 2014, NPR has moved to the right a bit, in a deliberate effort to reduce bias to the left. Meanwhile, MSNBC has obviously moved quite a ways further left, and Yahoo News has as well. I saw a study not long ago that showed that MSNBC was the network news service with the most opinion content (as opposed to news), but I wasn't able to find it.

The article I quoted above, does lend credence to the view that overall there is a liberal bias. There are vastly more news services to the left than to the right, and note that the article was from a left leaning publication, the Washington Post.

I would agree with you, though, that while TV is significantly to the left of center, radio is to the far right of center, though there are also some left leaning radio programs as well.

To stimulate further thought, here's another study:
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-biased-news-outlets-...
This shows that Republicans only believe that Fox and the WSJ are unbiased, while Democrats believe that most services are unbiased, with only Fox and the extreme right services like Breitbart biased. In this poll there was only one service that both Republicans and Democrats both believe is unbiased, and that was the WSJ. That, right there, tells you that we have a major problem.

Last Edited: 2/25/2019 2:26:51 PM by L.C.


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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