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Topic: RE: MAC Championship

Topic: RE: MAC Championship

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bshot44
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Member Since: 2/12/2012
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 1:38:33 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

What is the real value of a MAC title in football?

Other than a banner and sweatshirt, does it really change the outcome of where you play?

Toledo's title gets them to the Dollar General Bowl in Mobile (done that).

How did a conference title work for Ohio St.?

Does Alabama care it didn't win a conference title?

I think some people put way too much stock into a short-term value of MAC title over the overall big picture of the program's success.

Isn't that what you play sports for? To win championships?

To question the value of a MAC title to me is silly! It's very important!

No MAC team will EVER play for a national title .... and in order to play in a NY6 game you absolutely have to win your league ... and seeing how the best Ohio football is ever going to do is play in the NY6 ... I would say a MAC title should be the ultimate goal! Every freakin' year!

It's not a short term value ....

Toledo has been chasing one since 2004 ... and I would say they have not had this apathetic view towards it.

And why is it assumed that if Ohio wins one, they're selling their soul to the devil and will be forced to live a life as a 2-10 doormat every year after winning MACC? Why can't Ohio win MACC and keep winning them?

For Ohio or it's fans to act like it's not a big deal is basically devaluing the point of even playing football.

That's like saying in basketball .. oh, who cares ... as long as we finish 17-14 every year it's totally cool.

We place great emphasis on winning MAC titles in basketball and making the NCAA tourney.

Why is it in football a lot of people on here don't seem to care if we never compete for a football title?

Seems so odd to me.

It's almost like they're afraid Frank will take them off his Christmas card list if they put value in winning a MAC title and show any emotion when it doesn't happen (nearly 50 years and counting)

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 1:50:52 PM

bshot44 wrote:

We place great emphasis on winning MAC titles in basketball and making the NCAA tourney.

Because a MAC title in basketball gets you to the dance. If the MAC were a two or more bid league, would the MAC title mean as much?

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,922

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 2:13:43 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

We place great emphasis on winning MAC titles in basketball and making the NCAA tourney.

Because a MAC title in basketball gets you to the dance. If the MAC were a two or more bid league, would the MAC title mean as much?

And a MAC title in football gets you into the discussion for the New Year's Party. It's pretty obvious that a MAC team will never play for a national title in football in the current system. So, you either shoot for what's attainable or don't. Simple as that. What really is the point of remaining at the FBS level if you're not trying to win your conference in hopes of making the NY6 as a Group of Five school?

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 3:47:42 PM by GoCats105

PA Bobcat Fan
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Member Since: 9/19/2005
Post Count: 78

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 2:19:23 PM

Winning a MAC title gives your team bragging rights that they were the best team that year.

Ohio has not been the best team in its conference for 50 years.

Think about it!

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 2:22:34 PM

Winning the MAC in football is no guarantee of a New Year's bowl. I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month. Now, if winning the MAC in football got you into a post-season tournament of some sort, then I think you'd see far more passion for it.

Just my opinion. Has no bearing on what the players or coaches think, so stop throwing the "we should drop to FCS" stuff.

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 2:22:53 PM by Robert Fox

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
Post Count: 2,516

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 2:23:11 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

And a MAC title in football gets you to the New Year's Party. It's pretty obvious that a MAC team will never play for a national title in football in the current system. So, you either shoot for what's attainable or don't. Simple as that. What really is the point of remaining at the FBS level if you're not trying to win your conference in hopes of making the NY6 as a Group of Five school?

Toledo is playing on New Year's Day?

Robert Fox
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 2:23:46 PM

PA Bobcat Fan wrote:

Winning a MAC title gives your team bragging rights that they were the best team that year.

Ohio has not been the best team in its conference for 50 years.

Think about it!

Is Alabama the best team in the SEC?

Buckeye to Bobcat
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Member Since: 9/10/2013
Post Count: 1,776

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:37:28 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

If we're not wanting to win conference championships, then why bother having college athletics then? I would have requested my tuition dollars be yanked away from athletics so that I could have had saved during my time at OU if we're not going to want to compete for conference championships.

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:45:51 PM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Agreed. Unless I'm mistaken, that's the primary goal of every team, in every sport, in every conference at every level. In the MAC, unless a team is at a VERY high level in a given season, the MAC Championship is probably the most important thing on their goal list. In football, as a fan, going to Detroit is more interesting and important to me than whatever bowl game they may end up in.

GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:46:05 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Toledo is playing on New Year's Day?

No, but they wouldn't even have a shot without winning the MAC. Did Temple play on New Year's for winning the AAC last year? No, a team from the MAC did. Cmon, you know what I meant. But I'll edit the original reply to help appease.

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 3:47:26 PM by GoCats105

GoCats105
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:49:19 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month.

So you're telling me that nobody would care whether or not 13-0 Ohio would play in the Cotton Bowl versus Wisconsin as opposed to 8-4 Ohio playing in the Bahamas Bowl against UAB? Those are exactly the same in your eyes?

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 3:49:32 PM by GoCats105

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:50:28 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Like I said, this is my opinion, not the teams, not the players, not the coaches.

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:54:50 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying winning the MAC is no ticket to a "big time" bowl. If it were, I think there'd be more passion for it. As it is, you win the MAC, you still get a bowl that is more or less similar to what we have this year.

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 3:55:19 PM by Robert Fox

OhioStunter
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Location: Chicago
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 3:58:25 PM

NOTE: SORRY FOR ALL CAPS -- I'M NOT YELLING -- JUST TRYING TO DISTINGUISH MY RESPONSES FROM THE ORIGINAL TEXT:

Isn't that what you play sports for? To win championships? -- THAT IS A TOP GOAL. BUT IS THAT THE ONLY MEASURE OF A SUCCESSFUL SEASON -- OR A COACHING CAREER?

To question the value of a MAC title to me is silly! It's very important! -- IN FOOTBALL, I DON'T THINK A CONFERENCE TITLE HAS AS MUCH VALUE AS IT DID BEFORE. NOT WHEN THE REWARDS (BOWL GAMES) REALLY DON'T USE CONFERENCE TITLES AS A MEASURING STICK.

No MAC team will EVER play for a national title .... and in order to play in a NY6 game you absolutely have to win your league ... and seeing how the best Ohio football is ever going to do is play in the NY6 ... I would say a MAC title should be the ultimate goal! Every freakin' year! -- I AGREE. BUT WHEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, IT'S OK TO BE DISAPPOINTED. IN MY OPINION, IT DOESN'T NECESSITATE A COMPLETE REGIME CHANGE THAT MANY ARE CALLING FOR.

It's not a short term value .... -- SOME ON THIS BOARD HAVE SAID THEY'D TRADE A MAC TITLE SEASON FOR YEARS OF MEDIOCRE SEASONS. AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE A MACC, I STILL ENJOY CONSISTENT WINNING SEASONS AND BOWL GAMES. BECAUSE I DON'T POUND MY FIST ON THE COMPUTER AND DEMAND BETTER, IT MAKES ME AN APATHETIC FAN?

Toledo has been chasing one since 2004 ... and I would say they have not had this apathetic view towards it. -- BASED ON WHAT?

And why is it assumed that if Ohio wins one, they're selling their soul to the devil and will be forced to live a life as a 2-10 doormat every year after winning MACC? Why can't Ohio win MACC and keep winning them? -- I HOPE OHIO WINS MULTIPLE MACC. NIU HAS DONE WELL, BUT THEY HAVE AS MANY MACCS OVER SOLICH'S TENURE THAN CMU DOES. MIAMI HAS ONE. IS MIAMI A BETTER PROGRAM THAN OHIO'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE A MACC AND OHIO DOESN'T?

For Ohio or it's fans to act like it's not a big deal is basically devaluing the point of even playing football. -- I JUST DON'T THINK THE CONFERENCE TITLE IS THE MOST ACCURATE MEASURE OF WHETHER YOU'VE REACHED THE NEXT LEVEL OR NOT. TOLEDO IS THE CURRENT CHAMPION AND ARE THEY REALLY BETTER OFF THAN OHIO RIGHT NOW?

That's like saying in basketball .. oh, who cares ... as long as we finish 17-14 every year it's totally cool.

We place great emphasis on winning MAC titles in basketball and making the NCAA tourney. -- THE END GAME FOR BASKETBALL IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN FOOTBALL. IN BB, A MACC GUARANTEES YOU A TICKET TO THE DANCE FOR A CHANCE TO WIN THE TITLE. IN FB, A MACC GUARANTEES YOU LADD-PEEBLES STADIUM IN MOBILE.

Why is it in football a lot of people on here don't seem to care if we never compete for a football title? -- A MACC FOR ME IS NOT THE END-ALL, BE-ALL. IT IS SOMETHING I WANT, BUT IS NOT THE SOLE DEFINITION OF SUCCESS NOR FAILURE FOR ME. IS TOLEDO'S SEASON THAT DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT THAN OURS?

Seems so odd to me.

It's almost like they're afraid Frank will take them off his Christmas card list if they put value in winning a MAC title and show any emotion when it doesn't happen (nearly 50 years and counting) -- THIS "NEXT LEVEL" THAT FRANK HAS NOT TAKEN US TO...WHAT IS IT? THE MACC? A NY6 BOWL?
CONGRATS TO NIU AND WMU FOR MAKING THE ORANGE AND COTTON BOWLS, RESPECTFULLY.

AM I JEALOUS? YES. DO I WANT THAT TOO? ABSOLUTELY.

DO I THINK OUR COACHES ARE FAILURES FOR NOT GETTING US THERE? NO.

IS 9 STRAIGHT NON-LOSING SEASONS AVERAGING 8+ WINS AND APPEARING IN 8 BOWL GAMES SOMETHING ANY OTHER COACH CAN CLAIM FOR THEIR TEAM? I DON'T KNOW. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR MANY, THOUGH.

CAN I STILL BE HAPPY WITH YET ANOTHER WINNING SEASON AND A BOWL GAME, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE YET TO WIN A MACC? I'D LIKE TO SAY YES, BUT SOME ARE TELLING ME NO.

[/QUOTE]

bshot44
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 4:43:15 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

You really think most fans, coaches & players do NOT care about winning a MACC?!?!

Or they are just as happy being in the Dollar General Bowl compared to the Cotton Bowl?!?!

Hahahahahaha! Now that's laughable.

Every year Solich laments the point that winning the MAC is the team's #1 goal!

You think a MAC champion Ohio football team will be looked upon and remembered the same way a Potato Bowl champion will?

You don't think players would kill for a MAC title ring over a bowl win?

Have you ever played sports or been around a team? Winning a championship is the ultimate goal.

No high school team starts the season just happy to make the playoffs ... the want to win the title.

You don't think that loss to Akron gutted this team ... or the 4 MAC title game losses?

No one is saying it's an automatic ticket to a NY6 bowl game ... but it's necessary if you ever wanted to earn one.

You don't think Toledo isn't going to celebrate and always remember the 2017 MAC Championship? You think they don't care?

You don't think there is any passion for it? That is has no bearing?

That's laughable

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 4:54:36 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

You're an idiot, bshot. A real idiot. All you can manage to do is paraphrase and then tear down an argument. I never said a MAC doesn't matter. I did say it MAY not be as big a deal as we think it is. It's merely food for thought. Not something to get your panties in a bunch, you freaking geek.

And yeah, I've played. Have you?

My suggestion is exactly that--for consideration. Something to mull over. You don't have to accept it. You can think otherwise. I don't give a rat's ass.

Jesus, I don't know why I bother on this site. If you dare offer up "food for thought" you get jackasses like you responding with "How dare you?" type stuff.

Edit to add: I don't know if you simply don't read posts, or if you just click "quote" and can't wait to reply. I made my point pretty clearly. You either don't read, or you have no capacity to get it.

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 4:57:52 PM by Robert Fox

Casper71
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 8:04:40 PM

From the time athletes are six years old, the whole point of playing the game is to win a championship in your league. It doesn�t make a difference whether it�s junior high senior high college or professional. The ultimate goal is winning championships. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I for one believe the staff is doing the same thing over and over and over again. And they�re now getting the same result year in and year out.

bshot44
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/4/2017 8:18:49 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Keep it classy Robert.

Way to resort to name calling.

Last Edited: 12/4/2017 8:19:49 PM by bshot44

Robert Fox
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 8:52:15 AM

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Keep it classy Robert.

Way to resort to name calling.

Way to READ and attempt to understand the point, as opposed to being a d-bag.

bshot44
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Post Count: 2,211

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 9:59:04 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Keep it classy Robert.

Way to resort to name calling.

Way to READ and attempt to understand the point, as opposed to being a d-bag.

Slow clap, Bobby.

Keep lowering that bar, pal.

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 10:14:58 AM

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Keep it classy Robert.

Way to resort to name calling.

Way to READ and attempt to understand the point, as opposed to being a d-bag.

Slow clap, Bobby.

Keep lowering that bar, pal.

I stand by all of it. You've proven it applies.

bshot44
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Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 12:39:04 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month. Now, if winning the MAC in football got you into a post-season tournament of some sort, then I think you'd see far more passion for it.

Look Bobby ....

You were the one who initiated your opinion that you're not sure "many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month" and that there might be more passion for a MACC if it led to an elite post-season bid.

I ... and a few others .... took a different stance and thought much, much differently on how important a MACC is to Ohio's players, coaches and fans.

Your opinion seemed to downplay the significance of a MACC ... which is totally fine. You obviously are entitled to that.

I ... and a few others ... chose to disagree. I, and others, seem to place a much higher value to winning a championship. And judging from the comments from Solich and his players over the last 13 years ... they value it very highly too.

After 2016 MACC loss to WMU:

"...that was a goal of theirs from the beginning and they felt they had the talent to be in this game and so did I."

- Solich

Before 2017 Akron game:

�When you start out everyone�s goals are similar, and most teams in the MAC want to accomplish getting into the MAC championship game,� said Ohio coach Frank Solich. �Our team is no different, and we had those goals."

After 2017 Akron loss:

�Everything we worked for just basically down the drain,"

- Javon Hagan

Before 2015 season

"A championship,'' Vick said. "That's the only thing we want to play for ... win each game, and win the big one at the end. Anything short of that will be just like any other year.''

- Derrius Vick

I could go on. Point is .... winning the MACC is the goal of every coach and player in that lockerroom each season. Not winning the Potato Bowl

You might have an opinion that it isn't that important ... my opinion was that I totally disagreed and thought it was laughable that a MACC wasn't the ultimate goal each year. You chose to attack me and blast me with names ...

So call me a D-bag ... idiot ... or a freaking geek. Don't care.

I know I'm right. A MAC title is the most important thing this team strives for every year

Last Edited: 12/5/2017 12:39:54 PM by bshot44

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 1:08:57 PM

What they say and what they do are two different things. For the umpteenth time: is the MACC important to them? Yes, of course it is. Is it the end-all-be-all? I don't know. Maybe yes, but maybe no. Because whether they win the MAC or not, they're still going to get, roughly, the same quality of bowl game.

And you left out jackass. That fits too.

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,922

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 1:41:34 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

But it's not guaranteed that a MAC title will get you a lower tier bowl every season, either. If you have a year like NIU or WMU had, you get a chance to get a big one. The MAC title at least gets you in the discussion for that. Without it, you're right, it essentially doesn't matter which bowl you get. And more often than not, yeah you're not gonna get that big bowl even with the MAC title. But you can still hang your hat on that MAC title.

It all goes back to what the goals of the program are. I would assume, in no particular order they are: MAC title, winning record, beat Miami, beat Marshall (in a given year they play), graduate players, stay out of jail, be nice to women and children, sip lemonade on a front porch swing, eat delicious steak, etc.

Last Edited: 12/5/2017 1:42:39 PM by GoCats105

bshot44
General User

Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 1:49:49 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

Thanks. Wasn't quite feeling the holiday spirit until that last one.

Basically .... what GoCats105 said.

Yes .. this year Toledo gets stuck with the Dollar General Bowl .... not exactly something to get excited about.

But you know what ... in 20 years, no one on that team is going to remember that bowl game.

What they'll remember ... oh .... yeah, that's right .... the MAC title ring on their finger.

NIU doesn't go to the Orange Bowl without MACC

WMU doesn't go to Cotton Bowl without MACC

Those are memorable bowl games, no doubt!

But many years, that's not going to be the case. But I'm guessing the "disappointment" of earning a bowl bid to face some nondescript Sun Belt team will be outweighed by the fact that YOU ARE THE CONFERENCE CHAMPION.

I'm not going to act like I know what's going on inside an 18-22 year-old's head ... but I am guessing the pit in their stomach after that Akron loss will probably sit with them for a long, long time.

Yours truly,

Mr. Idiot Freaking Geek D-Bag Jackass

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