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Topic:  Held to a higher standard

Topic:  Held to a higher standard
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 6:06:10 PM 
Until our "friend" from South Carolina sent the thread to Siberia, we were beginning to delve into whether certain students should be held to a higher standard - namely athletes. I will go a step further and include those that represent the university in an official capacity such as the student senate president or editor of the Post. Should these folks, particularly those on scholarship, be held to a higher standard in terms of their public behavior?
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 6:46:57 PM 
I don't believe so, athletes are students as well. Football players get concussions, torn ligaments, etc. and will have to live with them for decades. Yanking their schollies for minimal offenses would be unethical and it would hurt recruiting. If I am the coach of Saint Ignatius and I send you a kid and you kick him out for an alcohol related offense, I will tell my kids not to go to your university. That being said, if you drive drunk and hurt somebody, I could understand that. Some students are jealous of scholarship athletes, but they have it hard. Football players have winter conditioning at 0 dark 30, they have two a days in the summer. They have to travel during the week and make up classes, lets not bring out the crucifix.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 7:23:00 PM 
I think there's a question of a "higher" standard and the question of a "double" standard. Perhaps they are one in the same.

I would hold people of office, or faculty/coaches in this case,to a higher standard. Anyone who is in a position of power has more responsibility to conduct themselves in a positive light.

For athletes, there may be a perception of a double-standard. Do they get softer or harsher penalties than the typical student because of their "status"? I've seen it both ways.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 7:23:27 PM 
allen wrote:
I don't believe so, athletes are students as well. Football players get concussions, torn ligaments, etc. and will have to live with them for decades. Yanking their schollies for minimal offenses would be unethical and it would hurt recruiting. If I am the coach of Saint Ignatius and I send you a kid and you kick him out for an alcohol related offense, I will tell my kids not to go to your university. That being said, if you drive drunk and hurt somebody, I could understand that. Some students are jealous of scholarship athletes, but they have it hard. Football players have winter conditioning at 0 dark 30, they have two a days in the summer. They have to travel during the week and make up classes, lets not bring out the crucifix.


Let's differentiate here. If Irons is gone, you have two realize he's had two criminal cases in less than 3 years, so this situation does not stand alone.

As for a simple alcohol offense the University code of conduct is pretty well laid out and followed across the board, as well as criminal charges of a felony nature.

Last Edited: 1/17/2017 7:24:30 PM by BillyTheCat
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 7:30:48 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
allen wrote:
I don't believe so, athletes are students as well. Football players get concussions, torn ligaments, etc. and will have to live with them for decades. Yanking their schollies for minimal offenses would be unethical and it would hurt recruiting. If I am the coach of Saint Ignatius and I send you a kid and you kick him out for an alcohol related offense, I will tell my kids not to go to your university. That being said, if you drive drunk and hurt somebody, I could understand that. Some students are jealous of scholarship athletes, but they have it hard. Football players have winter conditioning at 0 dark 30, they have two a days in the summer. They have to travel during the week and make up classes, lets not bring out the crucifix.


Let's differentiate here. If Irons is gone, you have two realize he's had two criminal cases in less than 3 years, so this situation does not stand alone.

As for a simple alcohol offense the University code of conduct is pretty well laid out and followed across the board, as well as criminal charges of a felony nature.



I am with the coaches on whatever they do with Irons. I am talking about in general. Football teams are supposed to be families and you don't discard family. As far as Irons, I would consider his statement his grades and what judiciaries has to say before I would levy my punishment.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 7:34:11 PM 
allen wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
allen wrote:
I don't believe so, athletes are students as well. Football players get concussions, torn ligaments, etc. and will have to live with them for decades. Yanking their schollies for minimal offenses would be unethical and it would hurt recruiting. If I am the coach of Saint Ignatius and I send you a kid and you kick him out for an alcohol related offense, I will tell my kids not to go to your university. That being said, if you drive drunk and hurt somebody, I could understand that. Some students are jealous of scholarship athletes, but they have it hard. Football players have winter conditioning at 0 dark 30, they have two a days in the summer. They have to travel during the week and make up classes, lets not bring out the crucifix.


Let's differentiate here. If Irons is gone, you have two realize he's had two criminal cases in less than 3 years, so this situation does not stand alone.

As for a simple alcohol offense the University code of conduct is pretty well laid out and followed across the board, as well as criminal charges of a felony nature.



I am with the coaches on whatever they do with Irons. I am talking about in general. Football teams are supposed to be families and you don't discard family. As far as Irons, I would consider his statement his grades and what judiciaries has to say before I would levy my punishment.


Which unless it's a felony they do, have always done and will continue to do.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 7:49:02 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
allen wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
allen wrote:
I don't believe so, athletes are students as well. Football players get concussions, torn ligaments, etc. and will have to live with them for decades. Yanking their schollies for minimal offenses would be unethical and it would hurt recruiting. If I am the coach of Saint Ignatius and I send you a kid and you kick him out for an alcohol related offense, I will tell my kids not to go to your university. That being said, if you drive drunk and hurt somebody, I could understand that. Some students are jealous of scholarship athletes, but they have it hard. Football players have winter conditioning at 0 dark 30, they have two a days in the summer. They have to travel during the week and make up classes, lets not bring out the crucifix.


Let's differentiate here. If Irons is gone, you have two realize he's had two criminal cases in less than 3 years, so this situation does not stand alone.

As for a simple alcohol offense the University code of conduct is pretty well laid out and followed across the board, as well as criminal charges of a felony nature.



I am with the coaches on whatever they do with Irons. I am talking about in general. Football teams are supposed to be families and you don't discard family. As far as Irons, I would consider his statement his grades and what judiciaries has to say before I would levy my punishment.


Which unless it's a felony they do, have always done and will continue to do.

+1

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/17/2017 11:36:02 PM 
If it's a felony, he'll likely be deported. He's a resident alien on a student visa. There are rather strict rules that governor student visas. They differ somewhat from country to country and are negotiated between nations at the ambassadorial level. In fact, depending on the agreement between Canada and the United States, even a lesser charge of a certain magnitude might trigger a deportation.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 2:06:02 AM 
I believe athletes represent what is the finest of your university. Student athletes I believe are the cream of the crop on campus. Sure they may not get 4.0's, but you better believe they are maintaining good grades while staying off the social scene and continuing to do good. Always remembered the line our coach in hs gave us and one I use for our interns: "Don't do anything that will make the front page, especially because of who you represent." Whether this is family or employer you represent, you can't afford to pull a Maleek Irons.

As to the strike policy, I am a believer in second chances. Kids can be young and stupid and naturally events occur. That said, the fact that this was strike two, I don't want to know what strike 3 would have looked like. I am sorry that the situation occurred and we have all made young mistakes. For me, this is one I can't justify in any way, shape or form. And yes, every violation of team or societal laws have to be weighed differently. For him to be driving drunk, not only does it put him at risk but puts others walking home or whatever at risk. Don't get me wrong, I may be what some would call a social drinker as some posters on here know, but I will NEVER commit the sin of being stupid with beer and a car. Always know your options when it comes to this and even more surprising we as a university don't have a sponsorship slot for green cab (cough, athletes get home sober).

Nonetheless, let me get back on my rocker and talk other topics on this board about the lack of recruiting Ohio for football, and the great recruiting of Ohio for basketball.

Last Edited: 1/18/2017 2:07:48 AM by Buckeye to Bobcat
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 7:43:46 AM 
I say leave it up to judiciaries. FS was drugged his first or second year. The kid has been in the system for 3 years, the coaches have to assess his character. Is he a trouble maker? Is he a kid who is away from home in a wild place? Is he troubled? I even hope FS places Belack and Noel at Fort Scott like he did for others. If you can't keep him, maybe send him to YSU or something. It's not really cut and dry. Irons is lucky he did not get a fleeing and alluding. Toran Davis had two offenses, he had a marijuana charge and a DUI. Many players have had two or three chances.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 9:01:23 AM 
Interesting question and thread, inspired by the Maleek Irons situation.

To me, when an athlete is given a full scholarship and possibly even a stipend as the NCAA now allows, yes they should be held to a higher standard. As JFK said, to whom much is given much is expected.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 9:14:40 AM 
That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 9:28:23 AM 
allen wrote:
That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.


In college I played soccer and wrestled on the D1 level,as a walk on.

Tore the cartilage in both knees and had one badly separated shoulder.

I still live with the effects of those injuries.

Participating in college sports is not mandatory.
You know the risks going in.

The fact that you may get injured,doesn't take away from the advantages a "full ride" gives.

I don't know if I speak for most athletes,but the experiences I had in college sports,without a scholarship,and with the injuries were worth it.







Last Edited: 1/18/2017 9:29:04 AM by rpbobcat
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 9:43:10 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
allen wrote:
That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.


In college I played soccer and wrestled on the D1 level,as a walk on.

Tore the cartilage in both knees and had one badly separated shoulder.

I still live with the effects of those injuries.

Participating in college sports is not mandatory.
You know the risks going in.

The fact that you may get injured,doesn't take away from the advantages a "full ride" gives.

I don't know if I speak for most athletes,but the experiences I had in college sports,without a scholarship,and with the injuries were worth it.

+1 you can't replace those memories, but all in all you were a student and you deserved the same amount of rope as any other student.







Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 10:00:33 AM 
allen wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
[QUOTE=allen] That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.


In college I played soccer and wrestled on the D1 level,as a walk on.

Tore the cartilage in both knees and had one badly separated shoulder.

I still live with the effects of those injuries.

Participating in college sports is not mandatory.
You know the risks going in.

The fact that you may get injured,doesn't take away from the advantages a "full ride" gives.

I don't know if I speak for most athletes,but the experiences I had in college sports,without a scholarship,and with the injuries were worth it.

+1 you can't replace those memories, but all in all you were a student and you deserved the same amount of rope as any other student.



I played soccer for O.U. and wrestled for F.D.U.
It was made clear to us at both universities that we were very visible representatives (ambassadors) of the school and were expected to act accordingly.

As far as being treated the same as other students.
One night at O.U. some guys used the window in my dorm room to shoot off a couple of bottle rockets.
I wasn't involved,but,obviously,knew who was.
The RD for the dorm saw them being shot off and brought me in for some type of
hearing,don't remember what they called it.
I told them I wasn't involved.
I got asked to tell them who was.
I asked, if I gave them the names,would that affect my punishment ?
No.
I got one Quarter probation,they never got any names.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 11:17:26 AM 
If a student-student gets arrested, hardly anybody notices. Depending on what it is, the story might make the Post, the Messenger or the News. But if a student-athlete gets arrested, it makes national news sources. NBC picked up on the Irons arrest. http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/16/repor... / Hell, there's even something called Arrest Nation that maintains a database of athletes who get busted. http://arrestnation.com/2017/01/ohio-university-running-b... /

So, yes, student-athletes need to be held to a higher standard to help maintain the University's image.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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BEG
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 12:49:29 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
If it's a felony, he'll likely be deported. He's a resident alien on a student visa. There are rather strict rules that governor student visas. They differ somewhat from country to country and are negotiated between nations at the ambassadorial level. In fact, depending on the agreement between Canada and the United States, even a lesser charge of a certain magnitude might trigger a deportation.


I think he might have dual citizenship. His father is American.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 12:51:01 PM 
allen wrote:
That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.


Whether athletes are fairly compensated (agreed, one can indeed make a good argument they're not) is not the question in this thread. Its whether they should be held to a higher standard of behavior.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 12:58:31 PM 
allen wrote:
I say leave it up to judiciaries. FS was drugged his first or second year. The kid has been in the system for 3 years, the coaches have to assess his character. Is he a trouble maker? Is he a kid who is away from home in a wild place? Is he troubled? I even hope FS places Belack and Noel at Fort Scott like he did for others. If you can't keep him, maybe send him to YSU or something. It's not really cut and dry. Irons is lucky he did not get a fleeing and alluding. Toran Davis had two offenses, he had a marijuana charge and a DUI. Many players have had two or three chances.


Seriously????? Give that a break!!! The man made a mistake, it happens, the community, his friends everyone has moved on. But the entire claim was proven a sham when his attorney embarrassed the entire process by producing samples and having them tested in an un-certified labratory (place lost their license for poor practices of handling and testing samples). The samples had so much HGH it would have killed a horse. So NO need to bring that mess into this!
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 12:59:18 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
allen wrote:
That stipend is nothing, these kids tear ligaments, get concussions and suffer for decades.


In college I played soccer and wrestled on the D1 level,as a walk on.

Tore the cartilage in both knees and had one badly separated shoulder.

I still live with the effects of those injuries.

Participating in college sports is not mandatory.
You know the risks going in.

The fact that you may get injured,doesn't take away from the advantages a "full ride" gives.

I don't know if I speak for most athletes,but the experiences I had in college sports,without a scholarship,and with the injuries were worth it.









+1
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 1:08:29 PM 
BEG wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
If it's a felony, he'll likely be deported. He's a resident alien on a student visa. There are rather strict rules that governor student visas. They differ somewhat from country to country and are negotiated between nations at the ambassadorial level. In fact, depending on the agreement between Canada and the United States, even a lesser charge of a certain magnitude might trigger a deportation.


I think he might have dual citizenship. His father is American.


Interesting. Do you know where he was born?
===========================

According to the U.S. Immigration Service website:

"Child of U.S. Citizen Parent and Foreign National Parent​ [9]

​"A child born outside of the ​United States​ and its outlying possessions acquires citizenship at birth if at the time of birth:​

​•One parent is a foreign national and the other parent is a U.S. citizen; and​
​
•The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States for at least ​5 ​years, including at least ​2 ​years after 14 years of age.​"
==========================

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 3:56:28 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
allen wrote:
I say leave it up to judiciaries. FS was drugged his first or second year. The kid has been in the system for 3 years, the coaches have to assess his character. Is he a trouble maker? Is he a kid who is away from home in a wild place? Is he troubled? I even hope FS places Belack and Noel at Fort Scott like he did for others. If you can't keep him, maybe send him to YSU or something. It's not really cut and dry. Irons is lucky he did not get a fleeing and alluding. Toran Davis had two offenses, he had a marijuana charge and a DUI. Many players have had two or three chances.


Seriously????? Give that a break!!! The man made a mistake, it happens, the community, his friends everyone has moved on. But the entire claim was proven a sham when his attorney embarrassed the entire process by producing samples and having them tested in an un-certified labratory (place lost their license for poor practices of handling and testing samples). The samples had so much HGH it would have killed a horse. So NO need to bring that mess into this!


Of course he made mistake, I am glad we stood by him, you made my point, people make mistakes. Ohio is a party school, you are more susceptible to these incidents at Ohio. They stood by the coach and coach Solich is a good man. I remember him coming here one of the first things he did was challenge the team to a push up contest. Sometimes people make mistakes. You saying that Frank was like the incredible hulk in this situation is not real. The HGH would have not killed a horse it may have killed a mediocre soul, but Frank got through it. As far as giving you a break, you have not washed my car once or became my publicist through thick and thin, don't charge me with overworking you.

Last Edited: 1/18/2017 7:51:31 PM by Jeff McKinney

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 8:06:33 PM 
Frank choose the wrong firm to do the hair analysis. This means we really have no proof, one way or the other, what a legitimate analysis would have shown. I, for one, take Frank at his word that he believes he was drugged. Your mileage may differ. I, therefore, respect others who might have other opinions on this matter. But, as I said, we actually have no firm evidence one way or the other.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/18/2017 8:52:13 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Frank choose the wrong firm to do the hair analysis. This means we really have no proof, one way or the other, what a legitimate analysis would have shown. I, for one, take Frank at his word that he believes he was drugged. Your mileage may differ. I, therefore, respect others who might have other opinions on this matter. But, as I said, we actually have no firm evidence one way or the other.


I said he was drugged from the start.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Held to a higher standard
   Posted: 1/19/2017 6:59:35 AM 
I keep seeing people using HGH.
As far as I know,that's Human Growth Hormone.

I thought the issue with Frank was GHB (the date rape drug).

Last Edited: 1/19/2017 7:00:13 AM by rpbobcat
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