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Topic: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Topic: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

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LynxRufus6
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Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 2:01:30 PM

0-6 Bowl record. WMU obviously the crown jewel but loses their young coach to Minnesota. 0-6 is a severely bad record, but there were several upsets during the season including the CMU-OKST game (which never should have happened) and a few WMU victories over BIG10 schools.

Opinions on the worst conference in major college football?

OU_Country
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 2:21:28 PM

I don't have enough college football knowledge compared to many others on here to give a really well thought out opinion, other than to say this:

If we're talking about best/worst FBS conferences, I think we should look at all of the games over the last five years for a trend, not just this year's exhibition Bowl Game Record.

ExCat21
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 2:32:29 PM

Bowl games measure the strength of your conference. We were not at our best this year when it counted in the MAC.

.
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 2:33:19 PM

I don't know the answer to this. I do know the conference lost all the momentum it had built in the 1990s and early 2000s. There was a brief but wonderful time where the nation was convinced the next starting quarterback to their favorite NFL team could very likely come from a MAC program.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 3:39:09 PM

Very interesting insights Brian and Ex Cat. The coaches are the starting point, they bring the excitement which brings in the talent. In 2000 no one thought Urban Meyer could do what he did for Bowling Green in that short amount of time, it raised the bar for expectations.

This year PJ Fleck not only raised the bar with wins and national exposure, but elite talent. When MAC coaches go to the next level, they don't often bring a boat load of their recruits because they assume they can get better at the next level. Obviously, PJ Fleck recruits well, some MAC schools dare I say our own, don't seem to believe they can get top level recruits so they go after 2 star recruits instead of three and four star. We shall see what happens in years to come. If a MAC school could only keep a top notch coach, who knows what he could for his particular school and the MAC in general.

OU_Country
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 3:46:42 PM

ExCat21 wrote:

Bowl games measure the strength of your conference. We were not at our best this year when it counted in the MAC.

They do, but the 3-4 games played before the conference season starts do as well.

bshot44
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 3:59:02 PM

I really think it's a valid argument. The MAC is.....well.....not great.

Yes....EMU, Miami both experienced a rise this year (making bowls)...but BG, NIU, CMU, Akron all experienced drops (only CMU making a bowl). Every MAC team has been to at least one bowl game in the last five...but the consistency of some of those teams is wildly inconsistent. Teams go from up to way down too often.

The bowl showing (while mostly competitive) was a black eye. 0-6 was the worst of any conference....while the one conference I think is most comparable to the MAC, the Sun Belt, went 4-2 (including 2-0 vs. MAC)

Last year MAC was 3-4 in bowls...so I'd say the league regressed in 2016-17...not just in bowl results...but in bowl participants.

Last couple years in bowl games
2016 0-6
2015 3-4
2014 1-4
2013 0-4
2012 2-5
2011 4-1
2010 2-2
Overall this decade: 12-26 (only 4-18 last four years)

It was mentioned that the MAC did score P5 wins vs. NW, Illinois, KU, Okie St. That's pretty similar to what it's been in previous years.

2015 - 4
2014 - 4
2013 - 3
2012 - 7

2012 was probably one of the high-water marks for the league as a whole. You had Ohio, Toledo, NIU and Kent all ranked at one time....7 bowl teams, including the Orange Bowl

It's been a steady decline as a whole since then though. Kind of similar to Ohio's flight path...I really wish the league would've parlayed off that and continue to trend upward. Instead, a lot of teams dropped off while some plateaued.

Of the 14 teams in the league in 2012...only 2 have the same head coach. TWO! Ohio and Akron (Solich & Bowden)

That's pretty startling.

OhioStunter
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 4:23:41 PM

If bowl game records are the indicator of conference strength, does that mean the Big 10 is the second worst conference with a 3-7 bowl record?

cbus cat fan
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 4:36:59 PM

Not a good year for Midwest football. I dread hearing the talking heads saying the south and west is where a recruit should go. Unfortunately, lots of recruits are listening. Look at the rise of the Florida schools and traditional western powers like USC and Washington. Even PAC 12 schools like Washington State and Colorado, which haven't been good in a long time seem on the rise.

Ohio69
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 4:52:00 PM

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Last Edited: 1/10/2017 4:53:48 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

BillyTheCat
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 6:10:26 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

OhioStunter
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 6:32:41 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Top?

The Optimist
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 6:44:54 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

Billy still troubled by that 31-0 whooping.

I've seen crazier things happen.

L.C.
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 9:22:50 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

That's pretty obvious, and is one reason you can't compare the conferences solely based on bowl games. For example, at the recent Dollar General Bowl, Troy fans outnumbered Ohio fans by what, 20:1? It's not quite a home game for Troy, but close. It's not a deciding factor, just a small advantage for southern teams.

I'd be careful reading too much into a single year's bowl record. Sometimes there is the luck of the draw, and you get mostly unfavorable matchups, and sometimes you get favorable ones. This year the matchups weren't favorable. I think Toledo was a pick-em, and everyone else was an underdog. As a contrast, back in 2011 the MAC was 4-1 in bowls, which, as I recall, was the best of any conference. Does that mean that in 2011 the MAC was the best Conference in America? Hardly. It just means that in that particular year the MAC got uniquely favorable matchups.

So, how would I rank the G5 conferences? For 2016, I personally would rank it this way:

1. AAC
2. MWC
3. Sunbelt, MAC (tie)
5. CUSA

For 2015 I think the MAC was ahead of the Sunbelt. How will the two compare in 2017? I have no idea.

Why do I put CUSA behind the MAC? To me the difference is at the bottom. This year Buffalo was pretty awful, I'll grant you, the worst single team in either conference. Other than that, though, the MAC didn't have any really horrible teams. The next worst, as a group were Ball State, Kent, BG, and Akron, which in my mind were all pretty close. I think that all four of those teams would be favored in a game against any of the six worst teams in CUSA, Charlotte, Marshall, FAU, FIU, UTEP, or Rice. [Yes, I just said that probably the only MAC team that Marshall could have defeated this year was Buffalo.] In fact, there were two matchups from these two groups this year, with Akron beating Marshall, and Ball State defeating FAU, so there is empirical evidence to support my opinion.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 9:30:14 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

Playing in the Southern teams' backyard is an advantage for those teams but still is no excuse for the MAC going 0-fer this year. Playing in LA-Monroe in Shreveport didn't stop Ohio from obliterating them in the 2012 Independence Bowl.

Edit: Admittedly though, LC's explanation above does make a lot of sense. :)

Last Edited: 1/10/2017 9:32:07 PM by Mark Lembright '85

LynxRufus6
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 9:31:12 PM

L.C. wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

I think that's an excellent point! To play devils advocate, however, I would argue that the better teams in CUSA are better than the top teams in the MAC. W Kentucky, Old Dominion (a very recent FBS newbie), Mid Tennessee, and La Tech are all pretty decent G5 teams. Southern Miss even had a pretty decent season with a first year head coach. Someone mentioned top to bottom being the worst and I feel at least for this season that's a pretty fair statement.

Last Edited: 1/10/2017 9:32:32 PM by LynxRufus6

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/10/2017 10:17:27 PM

Year in and year out the MAC is a little better than the Sun Belt. I agree with those saying that the top few teams in CUSA are better than MAC teams, but the bottom half of CUSA is horrendous.

GoCats105
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 7:34:36 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Year in and year out the MAC is a little better than the Sun Belt. I agree with those saying that the top few teams in CUSA are better than MAC teams, but the bottom half of CUSA is horrendous.

The top half of the Sun Belt was just as good as the top half of the MAC this year. It'll be interesting to see what happens down there when they get their conference championship game sorted out.

L.C.
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 8:21:24 AM

LynxRufus6 wrote:

I would agree that the top is much closer. If you matched the top 6 teams in each conference, and played six games, they would probably go 3-3. I'd pair them up this way:
WMU v. WKy
Toledo v. La. Tech
Ohio v. ODU
NIU v. S. Miss
Miami v. UTSA
EMU v. MTSU

Since the only two actual games among this group were W.Ky against Miami, and ODU against EMU, CUSA was 2-0 in this group, with two close wins. Suppose the only two games had instead been WMU against UTSA, and Toledo against MTSU? Then I think that the MAC would have been 2-0.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Only one OHIO
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 11:32:50 AM

Avg Sagarin ratings (using overall rating):

American 66.87 0-10-2
MW 62.58 0-7-5
MAC 59.14
SB 59.12 4-2-5
CUSA 53.83 3-2-7

I then went and compared top to bottom with each conference. Taking only teams with a difference of more than 3 points head to head they MAC would theoretically be:

0-11 vs American (WMU <3 pts better than Tulsa)
0-7 vs MW (5 head to head matchups separated by <3 pts)
4-2 vs SB (5 head to head matchups separated by <3 pts)
3-2 vs CUSA (7 head to head matchups separated by <3 pts)

I agree, including the bottom of CUSA, the MAC is slightly better. The MAC East by itself however...

BillyTheCat
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 12:49:22 PM

The Optimist wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Is the MAC the worst FBS conference? This year, top to bottom, it appears so.

Is the Big10 the second worst? Maybe the second worst P5 conference.

Midwest will always be at a disadvantage when so many Bowl games are played in the southern teams back yard.

Billy still troubled by that 31-0 whooping.

I could care less about the 31-0 defeat of OSU, but at that the same time I love to laugh at some on you who copulate over such failures.

If you do not think that Troy playing in their own back yard, or USC playing in their home town, or FSU playing down the street doesn't make a difference than I do not know what to tell you.

Casper71
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 2:41:07 PM

L.C. That record is 4-18 since 2012. I would say the Mac is headed downwards and becoming less and less relevant.

Last Edited: 1/11/2017 2:41:42 PM by Casper71

OhioStunter
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/11/2017 7:06:26 PM

Casper71 wrote:

L.C. That record is 4-18 since 2012. I would say the Mac is headed downwards and becoming less and less relevant.

In the last four years, the MAC has been in the Orange Bowl and the Cotton Bowl.

In the last six NFL drafts, four MAC players have been drafted in the first round, including an overall #1 and #5 (vs. 2 in the first round in the previous six drafts).

While the MAC has had poor showings in bowls, I think we need to look beyond that to gauge whether the MAC is heading downward and becoming less relevant (and what relevance means in this discussion).

Maryland Bobcat
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS conference?

Posted: 1/13/2017 8:33:20 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Year in and year out the MAC is a little better than the Sun Belt. I agree with those saying that the top few teams in CUSA are better than MAC teams, but the bottom half of CUSA is horrendous.

I don't know that I would totally agree with that. Maybe 5-10 years ago, but the Sunbelt has quietly gone from the worst to very competetive. Arkansas State and Troy are good every year, and the addition of App State. I think it's approaching the MAC consistently these days. I'm not a big believe in bowl games as the measuring stick (for the reason pointed out above they are always home games for southern teams), but the MAC has had a lot of opportunities of late and has not done well against them.

This is a history of all games vs the two conferences: http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/sunbelt/mac.shtml Sun Belt is 19-15 this decade.

I would argue that C-USA is still better than the MAC. Southern Miss as a program is on another tier, and La Tech and MTSU are consistently very good. It was interesting to see ODU jump to FBS and right into this conference and do so well. Marshall and North Texas are MAC-level programs. FAU and FIU are growing programs (as all are in Florida) and have much more potential than anyone in the MAC. I don't know that the bottom of C_USA (UTEP, Rice and Charlotte) is that much worse to push it below the MAC.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Is the MAC worst FBS cornference?

Posted: 1/15/2017 9:38:40 PM

See the reactions on the recruiting threads; pencil..no, use a pen...in OHIO for the MAC title in year thirteen.

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