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Topic: As Good as it Gets

Topic: As Good as it Gets

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bobcat695
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Parkersburg, WV
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As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 7:53:20 AM

Close losses to good teams is as good as it gets for Ohio football. Albin's inability to teach a team to score is borderline laughable. The offense is predictable and inefficient. There always seems to be talented defensive players on the roster, but Solich has not recruited many dynamic playmakers on offense. He's 72 and basically emotionless. Albin's offense is pathetic. It's no wonder they cannot recruit the exciting talent and depth needed to beat the West.

The two MAC divisions couldn't be farther apart right now, yet we're using the results vs the East to define ourselves as a good program. I have very little faith in the current staff being capable of building a program to ever do anything like what WMU did this year. Instead we have consistent mediocrity. It better than losing every game, but not built to win the important game.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:23:21 AM

Forgive me. But that's crazy. You define last night's performance as mediocrity? The difference between WMU and Ohio, last night, was 6 points. It could have gone either way. You expected a WMU blow out. Did you not? So when Ohio made it dangerously close, your response is "we're mediocre and we always will be."

bshot44
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:45:25 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

The difference between WMU and Ohio, last night, was 6 points.

Yes. The difference LAST NIGHT was 6 points. The difference the last few years is much more. You can't look at these two programs and say they're that close. We're pretty far behind them right now. Disagree all you want, but find a game the last three years that WMU should've won, but lost. 20-4 in the MAC... in the much tougher West too. Multiple 40 & 50 point games. Blowout wins. We played our asses off last night, made a few too many mistakes and still had chance late to win. But let's not make it out that we're on par with WMU as a program.

Robert Fox
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 9:58:27 AM

We had what, three turnovers? One of them was Maxwell simply dropping the ball. Totally unforced. Yet we still competed quite well. Against the top two teams in the mighty West, we went 1-1. The loss was a close loss that genuinely could have gone either way. Yet, I'm told we're pretty far behind WMU. I don't see it that way. Their receiver was outstanding (#84), but otherwise I didn't see a huge disparity on the field. I thought we struggled more with other QBs this year. Terrell was good, but he didn't have an outstanding night last night. Some of that was due to Ohio's secondary turning in an outstanding performance.

bshot44
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 10:27:51 AM

You didn't see me at one time mention talent. I think we have a lot of very talented players. Results is where I base my judgement. We simply have not produced results like WMU has the last few years. So if the talent is there, where are the results?

bobcat695
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 10:46:46 AM

I define this decade's performance as mediocre. Not by Ohio standards, but by college football standards. Last night was truly as good as it's been. It was a close loss to a very good team.

I have two major criticisms: 1. The offense is awful. Albin can't outsmart any defense. Sometimes Ohio is simply better than their opponent so it doesn't matter if the scheme is predictable or deficient. To deny there is a problem on that side of the ball is just foolish.

2. Solich and his staff have never cracked the code to be able to land top talent. Their charisma and system have to be a problem. I am not knocking the men in the program now, but why have 12 years passed without stud QB play? Why is our running game inefficient because our walk-on RB is injured? We built the IPF to help recruiting and performance. The most important role of a head coach in college football is recruiting. The next most important role is having great coordinators and assistants. Some are good and some are not, but apparently we are stuck with all the parts. He's been unwilling to make changes and that stubbornness is why we are what we are.

Last Edited: 12/3/2016 10:50:20 AM by bobcat695

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Robert Fox
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 10:53:32 AM

bshot44 wrote:

Past few years:
WMU
2015 8-5 (6-2)
2014 8-5 ( 6-2)
2013 1-11 (1-7)
2012 4-8 (2-6)
2011 8-6 (5-3)
2010 7-6 (5-3)

Ohio
2015 8-5 (5-3)
2014 6-6 (4-4)
2013 7-6 (4-4)
2012 9-4 (4-4)
2011 10-4 (6-2)
2010 8-5 (6-2)

Total
WMU
36-41 (25-23)

Ohio
48-30 (29-19)

What are you talking about?

MonroeClassmate
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:01:43 AM

Look at the results vs common opponents. WMU had little trouble with anyone except Kent and Toledo for a half and took care of Eastern and Central. The 1-1 record vs the mighty west win by OHIO was aided in an unforced Toledo error of dropping a wide open bomb for 6 to start the game and another unforced error when a receiver left the back of the end zone. Toledo could say what if in the off season too. Folks should look at the entirety to gauge equivalence and not two or three fantastic outings.

There is a way to practice golf. Day one hit two balls. Pick up the better of the two shots and go to the lousiest. Hit two more and again go to the lousiest. At the end of the 18 holes, total your score and this is how BAD you can be. Day Two, do the opposite and constantly take the better of the two shots and at the end of 18 this is how GOOD you could be.

This season, OHIO's range was rather large, having turds and Toledo type performances. Western had two and a half at the lower end. OHIO, Northwestern and half vs Kent State. Mostly Western was blowing everyone away. No team does that every game. But Western was consistently at the good end of their range. Same with QB play. Mr. Windham was fantastic yesterday except for three throws. The TD to White has to rank in the top five all time in OHIO and the two other TD's just perfect. You honestly really couldn't predict what the next game for Greg will be, his games and halves this season have had a wide range. OHIO's QB and team is not consistently at the good end like WMU has shown. Perhaps Western QB was at the low end of his range in the 2nd half. But like many posters on here say a win is a win and their QB did just enough to win.

The defense was so much fun to watch in Detroit. Loved the stuffing on the goal line resulting in the field goal after the review! However, the last two times OHIO has faced WMU, one in Athens and one in Detroit, WMU is 2-0 and the point differential is huge. Play them 8 more times and how many does OHIO win? You got to be doing something right to have the 2nd longest win streak in the nation behind Bama.

Can Akron fans, with a similar 6 point loss to OHIO with a similar chance to win at the end (actually drop by Zips vs TO by OHIO) say they are nearly as good as OHIO?

OhioStunter
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:07:33 AM

And even comparing the last 12 years:

Ohio
-1 head coach
-88 wins
-8 bowl appearances
-2 losing seasons
-0 MACC

WMU
-2 head coaches
-81 wins
-6 bowl appearances
-4 losing seasons
-1 MACC

Robert Fox
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:25:34 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

1. The offense is awful.

The offense is inconsistent. When it clicks, it's not awful. Why the inconsistency. That is the question.

bobcat695 wrote:

2. Solich and his staff have never cracked the code to be able to land top talent. Their charisma and system have to be a problem. I am not knocking the men in the program now, but why have 12 years passed without stud QB play? Why is our running game inefficient because our walk-on RB is injured? We built the IPF to help recruiting and performance. The most important role of a head coach in college football is recruiting. The next most important role is having great coordinators and assistants. Some are good and some are not, but apparently we are stuck with all the parts. He's been unwilling to make changes and that stubbornness is why we are what we are.

I thought I heard the announcer say last night that WMU's stud WR was a 2-star recruit that only Fleck wanted. No one else. He found a "diamond in the rough." Seems to me, that's a common reality in the MAC. Referring to AJ as a "walk-on" smacks of a cheap shot. Walk-on or not, he's a hell of a RB. Last year many criticized the coaching staff for picking him over Irons. I'd say our RB system is pretty good. However, I would like to see Hardy back in the mix. Don't understand his absence.

As for QB, I'm frustrated why Windham has not gotten more time. I wanted to see him against Akron. Don't know if that's due to his injury or coaches' preference. I hope it was the injury. He clearly has far more poise. The team responds well when he's running the ship. I think Maxwell will be fine, but he's too inexperienced for the kind of pressure he had last night. Let him develop. For now, I hope to see Windham in the bowl game.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:46:41 AM

This is the first thread I've read since yesterday morning.

I knew what I'd see. Yesterday's generally quite good performance accepted as the equivalent of a win despite IT'S NOW OFFICIAL 12 YEARS FOR SOLICH WITHOUT A MAC TITLE.

The announcers yesterday had nothing but positives to say about OHIO (and WMU). What a surprise. Have you ever heard an announcer be very critical of a team on a game that he or she was announcing. Again, they have a vested interested career-wise and personally in feeling like they're announcing a game between two really good teams and in making the audience feel that same thing so ratings numbers will remain high so their careers will be enhanced.

Mack Brown is horrible. States only the obvious and uses every cliche in the book. Anyone on this board could do about as well.

Next year? For OHIO, no established qb and significant losses on defense, especially at D-line. Plus Miami will be much better all year. And, I'm pretty sure, so will BG and Buffalo, at least.

So, welcome to year 13 of no MAC title.

Where's the band?!
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Bcat2
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:52:00 AM

Yes. Yesterday was about as good as it gets. MACC game vs an undefeated, highly ranked oponent. Slug it out for four quarters. Defense and offense both doing things to win. A game that you feel that Ohio was getting stronger. Let them play all night and Ohio wears them out. How about, if Western does not make Cotton, we see if Western would be up for a rematch in a bowl? Bet they would not.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 11:58:16 AM

Why and when we lost last night:

1) Our 2nd last drive in the 2nd quarter, we had 3rd and 14 at about our 10. We run it. (Gets stuffed at line for no gain or small loss.) Huh? No other team in the history of football runs it there. Behind 16-7 and a huge underdog, we had nothing to lose there. We were positioned to take a stab at a huge win. How big? It would have would have validated Solich...and shut Monroe up.

But typical Solich/Albin fear of a turnover means we go ultra-conservative. As usual. Leading to the as usual loss in MAC title game.

We had nothing to lose there.

2) WMU gets it back, scores, we're down 23-7. After their kickoff, we get the ball at our 25 with 36 seconds to go in the first half. No attempt to score as we run one running play and the half ends. Nice give-up football. I hate that ultra-conservative no-guts.

You get Solich, that's what you get. No MAC

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled channel of the SFB being ecstatic because last night was such a very, very excellent loss. Really, it was such a good loss that it is the equivalent of winning the MAC title.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:00:30 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

And here we go: The leader of the accept-mediocre basically sees last night as a win instead of the facts of continuation of more of the same losing.

8-5. Well, at least we've beaten the minimally required 4 losses per year on our so-tough schedule (MAC East and assorted OOC cupcakes).

mid70sbobcat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:05:51 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I don't see anyone accepting yesterday's results as a "win". Why do you constantly feel the need to twist peoples words? Some here, who actually feel we are not mediocre, have no problem with congratulating the team and their performance last night.

So I guess in your mind since we didn't win the MACC we are again 'mediocre'. Tell that to Basham, Sayles, Poling, Brown, etc. etc. and you'd likely be beaten to a pulp.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:09:38 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Thanks for the genuine American off-the-rails.

mid70sbobcat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:23:24 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Thanks for the genuine American off-the-rails.

And thank you for continually CHOOSING to make up crap about what other posters supposedly said. My only suggestion to you ... go take a course in reading comprehension. Then maybe you can better understand what people are posting. But continue with your repetitive drivel since that's all you know.

REPEAT -- you stated above that posters here accepted last night's performance as a win. Your words --- not mine. Own what you post or think before you post.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:27:16 PM

Solich--no MAC title 12 years. Miami and others in the East will be better next year and we suffer significant losses on defense. And qb questions plus we lose Smith and Reid at receiver.

But we'll definitely win the MAC title next year.

Get 'em, tiger!

OhioStunter
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:27:25 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

IT'S NOW OFFICIAL 12 YEARS FOR SOLICH WITHOUT A MAC TITLE.

The over/under for when you were to post the obvious was 4 hours after game time and I took the under.

Like Solich, I lose again.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 12:28:04 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

IT'S NOW OFFICIAL 12 YEARS FOR SOLICH WITHOUT A MAC TITLE.

The over/under for when you were to post the obvious was 4 hours after game time and I took the under.

Like Solich, I lose again.

That made me laugh...good one!

ts1227
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 1:47:51 PM

Absolutely no one is going to take away the fact that he turned around a decades running terrible team into a consistently good program. The idea of being pissed that no titles have happened only happened with a dump truck full of Meigs County Gold being consumed first about 15 years ago. Name the field after him when he leaves, I don't care.

But yes, this is as good as it's going to get with what we have. This is the plateau. So it's a big decision... does he gets to call his own shots on leaving because of what he has done, or does he net nudged out to get to the next step before massive regression ruins what is there?

Looking at the record is even kind of simplistic too. The OOC schedule formula is designed for 3-1 each year, and we've always been in the top half (or middle at worst) of the MAC so the conference records are largely in the "as expected" range.

Last Edited: 12/3/2016 1:49:00 PM by ts1227

bshot44
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 2:08:03 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

The last three years since Fleck got his program going. That's what I'm taking about.

Convenient you left off this year

Let me fix that

Ohio 56-35 (35-21)
WMU 49-41 (33-23)

So who's program would you rather have RIGHT NOW?

The one that is 29-10 (20-4) or 22-16 (15-9) the last three years?

P.S. the first one is nationally ranked, probably playing in the Cotton Bowl and just won a league title

Seems obvious to me.

bshot44
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 2:10:59 PM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Can Akron fans, with a similar 6 point loss to OHIO with a similar chance to win at the end (actually drop by Zips vs TO by OHIO) say they are nearly as good as OHIO?

Please. I want to see someone spin this.

I'll go one step further. Is Texas State a better program because they beat Ohio... In Athens?

cc-cat
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 3:09:39 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Thanks for the genuine American off-the-rails.

Mid - you need to realize that Monroe is this board's Rudy Giuliani - most every post is a noun, verb and no MACC. And yes, Monroe "Rudy" Slavin simply makes up what he thinks others say. To your point, no one has equated last night to a "win" - Also, he (and Bshot and others) grab a statement from Bcat - their mirror opposite character - and attach it to every other poster that doesn't march in step.

I'm not here to defend the program. I've never disagreed with the view that it has been mediocre the past few years. But anyone that looks at this year's TEAM and says "mediocre" is wrong and insulting to THESE PLAYERS. We swept the East. Beat the #2 team in the west in their place and took the #1 team - and best non-power team in the country to the final seconds.

No we did not win. No it is not a moral victory or any type of win. If not being the MAC champ equates THIS team to being mediocre then that is your view. I disagree.

While I do not respect much of what Monroe thinks (as he is aware), I do respect that he posts under his name.

So to this year's team -- Yes, Monroe Slavin apparently thinks YOU are mediocre. As does Bshot44 - whoever that is. Do not attach their view to the rest of Bobcat Nation.

I, cc-cat - Cory Hughes, Class of 1983. Do not agree with their assessment of you. I congratulate you on a strong season. I now last night's loss hurts you more than anyone on this board - it is not even close.

Hopefully your efforts will help the program turn the corner from the last few years.

Good luck in your bowl game.

Signed - Cory Hughes, Class of 1983.

Last Edited: 12/3/2016 3:20:04 PM by cc-cat

Robert Fox
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RE: As Good as it Gets

Posted: 12/3/2016 3:30:10 PM

bshot44 wrote:

So who's program would you rather have RIGHT NOW?

What you're really asking: do we want a consistent head coach, or a new coach every 3 years or so. Plenty of MAC programs take the latter approach. It's hardly a lock for a MAC Championship. Will WMU have Fleck next year? Probably not. They'll start all over again.

You're OK with that. I'm not.

Simple.

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