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Topic:  Ex Cat Game Analysis

Topic:  Ex Cat Game Analysis
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 5:20:47 PM 
Wow! What a game to start to start of the convo. I must say I was expecting a good game but not like this. I didnt expect a loss but it happens sometimes. Takeaways:

Greg can move the offense. Things will get better with experience as the season goes on.

Explosive plays. We made some but we gave up a lot as well. Papi, Jordan and Mr Elijah shows us that they can make big plays when needed. Really impressed with the Ball kid at receiver. Glad we have him.

Our secondary is young and will take not just this year but next year as well to get used to the Mich State Cover 4 that turns to man after 15 yds.

Kicker. We seem to just rebuild at this position as he is MAC Player of the Week.

I watched the game online and we seem to not get as many penalties. They held Basham a few times and it wasnt called. I would also ask Basham to get lower and play lower off the edge making it harder to block him. Other than that we have to clean up the penalties.

Missed tackles. This is where I stated a week ago that starters need 20% of live reps before a game to get acclimated to game speed. Too many starters sat out at the end of camp (to preserve injuries) but it hurt us on Saturday.

We have a long season still and can make postseason. I am happy for my old receiver coach Ron Antione who is on Texas States staff. He understands out schemes and gave them a little knowledge on how Ohio plays. Not too surprised with the outcome.

Can someone please post a game guide? I have to see how bad they actually are?

Have a great day!
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 5:46:55 PM 
I agree with most of your points. This is a team that will get better as the year progresses.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 6:48:04 PM 
This team is younger than I thought! We have some big azz young guys!
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 8:10:03 PM 
ExCat21 wrote:
Wow! What a game to start to start of the convo. I must say I was expecting a good game but not like this. I didnt expect a loss but it happens sometimes. Takeaways:

Greg can move the offense. Things will get better with experience as the season goes on.

Explosive plays. We made some but we gave up a lot as well. Papi, Jordan and Mr Elijah shows us that they can make big plays when needed. Really impressed with the Ball kid at receiver. Glad we have him.

Our secondary is young and will take not just this year but next year as well to get used to the Mich State Cover 4 that turns to man after 15 yds.

Kicker. We seem to just rebuild at this position as he is MAC Player of the Week.

I watched the game online and we seem to not get as many penalties. They held Basham a few times and it wasnt called. I would also ask Basham to get lower and play lower off the edge making it harder to block him. Other than that we have to clean up the penalties.

Missed tackles. This is where I stated a week ago that starters need 20% of live reps before a game to get acclimated to game speed. Too many starters sat out at the end of camp (to preserve injuries) but it hurt us on Saturday.

We have a long season still and can make postseason. I am happy for my old receiver coach Ron Antione who is on Texas States staff. He understands out schemes and gave them a little knowledge on how Ohio plays. Not too surprised with the outcome.

Can someone please post a game guide? I have to see how bad they actually are?

Have a great day!



How can you say that Ron Antione "knows our schemes and gave them a little knowledge on how Ohio plays"? Ron hasn't coached at Ohio in 12 years and never coached with Frank or any of his assistants, so how would he have the knowledge of any of this?
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 8:54:25 PM 
Definitely agree about Basham's need to get the low-speeeed-leverage defensive end rush. It's effective, it's what the stud pros (Von Miller, etc) wreak havoc and get paid big for.



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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 10:30:43 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I agree with most of your points. This is a team that will get better as the year progresses.


Ohio lost at home to a team they were favored to beat by 3 touchdowns. If they don't get better as the year progresses, they'll be playing the last couple of home games in front of 500 people.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/6/2016 10:37:50 PM 
bobcat695 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
I agree with most of your points. This is a team that will get better as the year progresses.


Ohio lost at home to a team they were favored to beat by 3 touchdowns. If they don't get better as the year progresses, they'll be playing the last couple of home games in front of 500 people.

I don't disagree, however I'm firmly convinced they will improve a lot as the year goes on. I believe in this team, and I'm not going to throw them under the bus for one bad game.

Last Edited: 9/6/2016 11:51:49 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/7/2016 12:14:31 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:

Our secondary is young and will take not just this year but next year as well to get used to the Mich State Cover 4 that turns to man after 15 yds.


That is a scary thought.

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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/7/2016 10:04:11 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
ExCat21 wrote:

Our secondary is young and will take not just this year but next year as well to get used to the Mich State Cover 4 that turns to man after 15 yds.


That is a scary thought.



I agree. With the quarterbacks in our league (Woodson, Rush, Knapke, Woodside) we are done if our secondary takes a year. Heck, I would rather be aggressive with our DBs and lose than give up that 10 yard cushion. It seems like every year we consistently have our DBs sit back and give that cushion so opposing QBs can get comfortable with the little 1-yard pass that turns into 6 or 7 yards every dang time. I would almost prefer Poling becoming a 5th DB since Brown and Moore and our DL's cover so much space.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/7/2016 11:03:14 AM 
The idea of the defense is that you give up passes of 5-7 yards fairly often. But if you keep plays in front of you and don't give up plays much longer than that, you force the offense to keep doing it without mistake for drives of 10-15 plays. That usually doesn't happen because there are incompletions and sacks and things like that. The problem for Ohio Saturday was too many times the passing plays went for too many yards after the first quarter and a half. That's not supposed to happen with that type of defense.
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 10:11:00 AM 
BillyTheCat: Pete Germano was retained by the Solich regime after the last staff left. He was tight end coach and recruiting coordinator. After he left, he went to Fresno State where the Knorr coordinators went to with Deruiter (along with Antione). I'm sure Antione reached out to Germano to get some of our schemes. We still run pistol and we don't run Michigan St Cover 4 every down.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 10:50:03 AM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
ExCat21 wrote:

Our secondary is young and will take not just this year but next year as well to get used to the Mich State Cover 4 that turns to man after 15 yds.


That is a scary thought.



I agree. With the quarterbacks in our league (Woodson, Rush, Knapke, Woodside) we are done if our secondary takes a year. Heck, I would rather be aggressive with our DBs and lose than give up that 10 yard cushion. It seems like every year we consistently have our DBs sit back and give that cushion so opposing QBs can get comfortable with the little 1-yard pass that turns into 6 or 7 yards every dang time. I would almost prefer Poling becoming a 5th DB since Brown and Moore and our DL's cover so much space.


You didn't even mention Terrell or Roback. I don't know if Roback's suspension is permanent, but Ohio better hope so.
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 10:50:50 AM 
The idea of the Cover 4 is that is does turn into man after 15 yards and it allows for short slants and shorter routes to get passes thrown but the DB's and LB's rally quickly to avoid explosive plays. However, you have to have disruptive front 4. Michigan State has that because of their 4 and 5 star defensive line recruits. I would like to see us mix in that Cover 4 with a Cover 4 then change to Cover 2 at the snap. Fool these check-down QBs and take it to the house.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 11:10:38 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
The idea of the Cover 4 is that is does turn into man after 15 yards and it allows for short slants and shorter routes to get passes thrown but the DB's and LB's rally quickly to avoid explosive plays. However, you have to have disruptive front 4. Michigan State has that because of their 4 and 5 star defensive line recruits. I would like to see us mix in that Cover 4 with a Cover 4 then change to Cover 2 at the snap. Fool these check-down QBs and take it to the house.


How much of that plays into how much the coaches trust the players on the field? Maybe they don't think our guys are ready for that type of thing yet?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 11:24:14 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
BillyTheCat: Pete Germano was retained by the Solich regime after the last staff left. He was tight end coach and recruiting coordinator. After he left, he went to Fresno State where the Knorr coordinators went to with Deruiter (along with Antione). I'm sure Antione reached out to Germano to get some of our schemes. We still run pistol and we don't run Michigan St Cover 4 every down.


We are so different than when Pete was in Athens, not to mention NOT one player on this roster was around when Pete was still in Athens.
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 11:29:31 AM 
Actually we are not. Two-tight end sets when we have healthy tight ends. And we run the smallest guy up the middle. And we run reverses near goalline. Still the same to me!
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 11:31:05 AM 
Players not around but schemes are still the same! You can debate as much as you want to, but you're not winning this one bud. Antione definitely had a heads up on us. I can guarantee it!
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 1:44:02 PM 
The cover four is a disaster, you can put lipstick on it by saying the Michigan State cover 4. You can't give up short passes continually, gamebreakers like Papi turn them into touchdowns. We gave up 56 points. Let's change our scheme, run more blitz packages and try to win, instead of trying not to lose and let's stop with the moral victories.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 2:14:00 PM 
allen wrote:
The cover four is a disaster, you can put lipstick on it by saying the Michigan State cover 4. You can't give up short passes continually, gamebreakers like Papi turn them into touchdowns. We gave up 56 points. Let's change our scheme, run more blitz packages and try to win, instead of trying not to lose and let's stop with the moral victories.


Or we can evaluate the young talent to see if they are close to becoming the D backs the scheme needs. Would we still be having this discussion if Wells and Proffitt were still at corner? Perhaps four new CBs were going to be schooled no matter which scheme they were in. News flash "gamebreakers like Papi" break plays against any scheme, hence their label "gamebreakers." The defense made six sacks as it was, I believe "more blitz packages" would have given him even bigger holes to exploit. I know, they should be drawing new defenses up in the dirt throughout the game.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 2:32:25 PM 
allen wrote:
The cover four is a disaster, you can put lipstick on it by saying the Michigan State cover 4. You can't give up short passes continually, gamebreakers like Papi turn them into touchdowns. We gave up 56 points. Let's change our scheme, run more blitz packages and try to win, instead of trying not to lose and let's stop with the moral victories.

The Michigan State cover-4 has defensive backs up tight on the receivers. The primary goal is not not give up any short passes, and to stuff the run, forcing the other team to rely on long plays. The risk of having all the cornerbacks up on the line of scrimmage is that sometimes get burned, but hopefully not too often.

If Ohio defensive backs were playing off the receivers, they weren't in the Michigan State cover-4, but rather some other defense. Prior to the Michigan State variation, the primary use of the cover-4 was as the traditional "prevent defense", also known as the "prevent victory defense". I've never seen the "prevent defense" effectively prevent anything.

I'm not a fan of the cover-4, but it seems to me that if you're going to play it, the Michigan State version has a better track record than the prevent defense variation. If they don't have the players to run the Michigan State version, it seems they should adjust the strategy according to what they do have.

Last Edited: 9/8/2016 2:34:35 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 2:54:22 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
The cover four is a disaster, you can put lipstick on it by saying the Michigan State cover 4. You can't give up short passes continually, gamebreakers like Papi turn them into touchdowns. We gave up 56 points. Let's change our scheme, run more blitz packages and try to win, instead of trying not to lose and let's stop with the moral victories.


Or we can evaluate the young talent to see if they are close to becoming the D backs the scheme needs. Would we still be having this discussion if Wells and Proffitt were still at corner? Perhaps four new CBs were going to be schooled no matter which scheme they were in. News flash "gamebreakers like Papi" break plays against any scheme, hence their label "gamebreakers." The defense made six sacks as it was, I believe "more blitz packages" would have given him even bigger holes to exploit. I know, they should be drawing new defenses up in the dirt throughout the game.

I agree with the first part. However, if you are going to give up short passes, than you need to blitz to rattle the quarterback. Six sacks in multi-overtime game against a lesser opponent is not impressive. Drawing up defenses in the dirt mught have worked. If you trust your corners let them press and give up short passes on 3rd and long after you have made a sack. 56 POINTS is 56 POINTS, Texas State, come on.

Last Edited: 9/8/2016 2:59:19 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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LynxRufus6
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 3:28:52 PM 
allen wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
The cover four is a disaster, you can put lipstick on it by saying the Michigan State cover 4. You can't give up short passes continually, gamebreakers like Papi turn them into touchdowns. We gave up 56 points. Let's change our scheme, run more blitz packages and try to win, instead of trying not to lose and let's stop with the moral victories.


Or we can evaluate the young talent to see if they are close to becoming the D backs the scheme needs. Would we still be having this discussion if Wells and Proffitt were still at corner? Perhaps four new CBs were going to be schooled no matter which scheme they were in. News flash "gamebreakers like Papi" break plays against any scheme, hence their label "gamebreakers." The defense made six sacks as it was, I believe "more blitz packages" would have given him even bigger holes to exploit. I know, they should be drawing new defenses up in the dirt throughout the game.

I agree with the first part. However, if you are going to give up short passes, than you need to blitz to rattle the quarterback. Six sacks in multi-overtime game against a lesser opponent is not impressive. Drawing up defenses in the dirt mught have worked. If you trust your corners let them press and give up short passes on 3rd and long after you have made a sack. 56 POINTS is 56 POINTS, Texas State, come on.


1. It's Pat Narduzzi's defense, not Michigan States
2. If they blitz, the zone blitz has to be effective with bringing 6 guys. Giving up 60 to Texas State doesn't tell me the defense is effective enough to fully trust a zone blitz continuously.
3. Duzzi's defense is anything but a disaster. Bravo to Burrow for installing something new over that atrocious cover 3 base. Although I think these young guys need to press #1's on both sides every single play. Force low % passes and lock up everything underneath. The old theory of "don't get beat deep" should die quicker than my morale about this season.
4. I wish they ran the 4-2-5 because it'd allow OU to be more athletically based rather than large up front.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 6:16:10 PM 
ExCat21 wrote:
Players not around but schemes are still the same! You can debate as much as you want to, but you're not winning this one bud. Antione definitely had a heads up on us. I can guarantee it!


TSU gave up 54 points! So you are telling me that without Ron on their staff telling TSU defensive coaches what OHIO like to do, we would have scored 80? And the defensive scheme is totally different than when Pete was here, so to what do you want to contribute that success too? After all we gave up 56 and 400+ passing.

Now if you wanted to say a guy like Michael George had an impact as far as schemes and style of play id say right on. But picking Ron and Pete as the two who knew what we are doing is silly.

Last Edited: 9/8/2016 7:25:34 PM by BillyTheCat
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 8:31:55 PM 
LynxRufus6 wrote:
1. It's Pat Narduzzi's defense, not Michigan States
2. If they blitz, the zone blitz has to be effective with bringing 6 guys. Giving up 60 to Texas State doesn't tell me the defense is effective enough to fully trust a zone blitz continuously.
3. Duzzi's defense is anything but a disaster. Bravo to Burrow for installing something new over that atrocious cover 3 base. Although I think these young guys need to press #1's on both sides every single play. Force low % passes and lock up everything underneath. The old theory of "don't get beat deep" should die quicker than my morale about this season.
4. I wish they ran the 4-2-5 because it'd allow OU to be more athletically based rather than large up front.

Indeed, it is Pat Narduzzi's defense that inspired Ohio's defense, and Narduzzi's defense is not a disaster. However, Narduzzi's defense does press the opposing receivers. The variation that Ohio plays, is not Narduzzi's defense, but Burrow's defense. He should get the credit when it works, and the blame when it doesn't. It didn't work very well against Texas State.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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LynxRufus6
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ex Cat Game Analysis
   Posted: 9/8/2016 9:04:52 PM 
L.C. wrote:
LynxRufus6 wrote:
1. It's Pat Narduzzi's defense, not Michigan States
2. If they blitz, the zone blitz has to be effective with bringing 6 guys. Giving up 60 to Texas State doesn't tell me the defense is effective enough to fully trust a zone blitz continuously.
3. Duzzi's defense is anything but a disaster. Bravo to Burrow for installing something new over that atrocious cover 3 base. Although I think these young guys need to press #1's on both sides every single play. Force low % passes and lock up everything underneath. The old theory of "don't get beat deep" should die quicker than my morale about this season.
4. I wish they ran the 4-2-5 because it'd allow OU to be more athletically based rather than large up front.

Indeed, it is Pat Narduzzi's defense that inspired Ohio's defense, and Narduzzi's defense is not a disaster. However, Narduzzi's defense does press the opposing receivers. The variation that Ohio plays, is not Narduzzi's defense, but Burrow's defense. He should get the credit when it works, and the blame when it doesn't. It didn't work very well against Texas State.


In 4Q and 3OT they only gave up 106 rushing yards- WIN
In 4Q and 3OT they gave up 440 passing yards and 5 TD's- LOSS

With those kind of statistics you'd think we were playing Texas Tech, not State.
Kansas throws the ball 70 times a game, so hopefully adjustments are made and they have the corners press like hell every single play giving the front 7 time to pressure the QB all day long. Otherwise, it'll be another long day in Lawerence on Saturday.
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