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Topic: RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Topic: RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/17/2016 4:07:12 PM

Bobcatbob wrote:

giacomo wrote:

If Alden is always full, then there is a some compelling reason, perhaps. I was trying to get enrollment numbers across the years. I found a number of 17,000 current undergrad enrollment. Does anyone know what total enrollment is with graduate studies included? Also, I wonder what it was in the 70's and 80's.

I can only speak to the early '70's when the campus population was something like 13,000 restless souls. Many of them, including a number of student athletes I knew, spent a great deal of time in bars that sold 3.2 beer in pitchers, freeing up a tremendous amount of space in Alden.

Also in those pre-internet, pre-PC days you REALLY needed Alden and it's Reference room. Seriously, I do not remember a time when I couldn't find a spot at a large table with more than 1 or 2 other people to share it.

I was at O.U. in the mid 70's.
Agree 100% on the bar attendance.At times I was one of the attendees.
I did prefer Strohs in bottles to pitchers.

I never spent a lot of time in Alden.
I was a Prevet/Engineering Major so I didn't have to do many papers.

For the papers I did have to do,my dorm (GAM) had its own library.
Usually found the information I needed there.
Did my studying at various locations in the dorm.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/17/2016 11:07:28 PM

My favorite study sites from 1977-1982 were: Alden 6th and 7th floor stacks. Usually only a few students there except for finals week. Second favorite was dorm lounges (not TV lounge on the first floor!). Didn't study much in my room due to distractions on the floor.

Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 9:52:30 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

. . . Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. . . .

+1

This is one of my pet peeves. The lack of funding for routine maintenance on campus is appalling. In fact, campus is beginning to look like it is maintained by the Athens City street maintenance crew, Pothole Removal Division.

When donating to The Ohio University Foundation, on your check's memo line you can write Buildings & Grounds and enclose a more specific use of the donation. Last year I did so for restoration of the Cutler Hall cupola which I'd noticed was badly in need of work.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

BillyTheCat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 10:27:16 AM

Mike Johnson wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

. . . Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. . . .

Correct, and all of my giving is of the restricted variety, and all go towards capital improvements.

GUNNER7
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 1:56:49 PM

This is absolutely disgusting!

Identifying as a former scholarship student-athlete I feel discriminated against (joking but serious). Sadly, somethings never change in Athens. Too large of a # in this case majority of faculty display a gross lack of respect towards OU intercollegiate athletics and athletes. The force is strong with the academia agenda versus OU athletics doesn't have to be like this... Brings to mind the Cowherd: Peoples Republic of Boulder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6t3VKLL-OY

Fun fact: Athletic department wonders why Mike Mitchell wont give them the time of day. Stand up for your athletes and their rights for the highest quality education you can provide to them they deserve it!

3 concussions, 2 knee surgery's, and a busted back how free was my college?

Go ahead "die_hards" chew it up!

giacomo
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 2:38:13 PM

Gunner, the Cowherd video was ridiculous. He seems to think that the football program should run the university and if it doesn't, somehow that's a bad thing. Sports are a diversion, not life. I think if they want the players to devote their life to the program, they should pay them. Are they committed? Like bacon and eggs, the chicken is part of the team, but the pig is committed.

GUNNER7
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 2:43:04 PM

giacomo wrote:

Love the Tim Albin quote! Agreed an extreme thats Cowherd yet some themes carry over. To your point it is a by far a majority of your college life year around! With out getting into the pay for play convo. staying a million miles away from that. Is it too much to ask to pay into their education with a privately funded academic center? apparently

The Optimist
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 3:58:39 PM

giacomo wrote:

Gunner, the Cowherd video was ridiculous. He seems to think that the football program should run the university and if it doesn't

That isn't what I took from that video.

In the Colorado situation, you had the local media getting outraged at the football program over a letter some parent wrote about the time commitment football required. Sounds A LOT like some of the comments are faculty are making here. There IS a large time commitment involved with playing D-1 football. Within the past couple months, we have had a projected starter (Langston Provitt) make the choice that football wasn't in his long-term interests.

Our players CHOOSE to continue making the time commitment towards D-1 football, and private donors CHOOSE to give funds to support that cause. Faculty plays a crucial role in any University as they educate students (both the athlete and non-athlete variety) but I find it absurd anyone could think that entitles them to have a stake in whether a young-man chooses to play D-1 football or whether a donor chooses to contribute money in support of that cause.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Joe McKinley
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/18/2016 6:25:40 PM

I took a look at rosters and NCAA scholarship guidelines for the six men's and nine women's intercollegiate sports offered at Ohio.

It looks like the maximum number of FTE scholarships for Ohio is 233 (some sports can offer partial grants in aid). The number of athletes listed on rosters on the athletics website for 2015-16 totaled 418. I might be off a shade, but roughly 44% of our athletes are representing our university without a scholarship.

Athletes are required to travel which means they miss lectures,office hours and have less access to other on-campus resources while on the road.

Additional or alternative academic support/resources seem reasonable to me.

Last Edited: 5/18/2016 8:30:32 PM by Joe McKinley

rpbobcat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 7:01:19 AM

I presume that FTE are Full Athletic Scholarships.

I do know that 1 full scholarship can be "split" among more then one person.

Last year there was an article about Rutgers wrestling team.

It said that they have 9.9 scholarships.That wouldn't even be enough to give a full scholarship to all their starters.They split their scholarships among their full team roster,with only a couple of their "studs" getting a "full ride".
I presume most schools do the same.

I know that when I played soccer at O.U.,we had 1 scholarship that was split 3 ways.

Using this approach,more athletes could get some scholarship money,but fewer get "full rides".

To me,that further reinforces the positives for a new Academic Center.

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 8:40:09 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

I do know that 1 full scholarship can be "split" among more then one person.

Bingo! This happens regularly within most of the "minor" sports programs.

D.A.
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 10:27:01 AM

Let's do this: you guys decide how Perry Sook and 400 others are allowed to donate their disposable income and then get back with us and let us all know.

It's important to us to know how you feel we should spend our money.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

Alan Swank
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 11:17:32 AM

D.A. wrote:

D.A. i think you are missing their point. They aren't telling anyone how to spend their money or who or what to contribute to. What they are disputing is the university's priorities. Their only point as I read it is that they don't think we need an athletic academic center.

The university establishes funding priorities - what they want to build and fund. Then they solicit donors for those projects. In a few select cases donors come forward unsolicited and say "I want to give money for x,y,z." The university can either say great, we'll build one of those or thanks, but that isn't a priority for us right now.

That's the line of thinking for faculty senate.

BillyTheCat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 12:23:31 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

I do know that 1 full scholarship can be "split" among more then one person.

Bingo! This happens regularly within most of the "minor" sports programs.

Actually that depends and is NOT totally true. Athletic Scholarships come in two classifications, Head Count Sports and Equivalency Sports.

A Head Count Sport, scholarships are only full scholarships and cannot be split. One the Men's side Head Counts are Baseketball and Football so that's 98 Men's scholarships. On the Women's side it's Basketball, Tennis, Volleyball and Gymnastics.

On the Equivalency side, any sport not listed can divide the amount that is listed as a maximum allowed by their institution, but not more than the NCAA maximum.

rpbobcat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 1:35:50 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

D.A. wrote:

One of my issues with Faculty Senate on this is that they conveniently ignore the fact that an Athletic Academic Center already exists, and has for some time.
This project will provide an improved facility.

As far as donors,they,including me,contribute to projects they feel are worthwhile.
If someone is asked to donate to project they don't like,don't give.

Alan Swank
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 2:24:10 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

D.A. wrote:

RP, i think you missed my point. Whether this is called a new or improved facility, the fact that the university deems it necessary and therefore solicited funds for it is their bone of contention. I hate to speak for them but my guess is that they do not feel this new or improved facility was necessary in the first place and that's why they have objected. It's not a matter of deciding to give or not to give it's a matter of building it in the first place to them.

D.A.
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 2:33:08 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

D.A. wrote:

And I think you/they are missing the point that this building is not governed by something over which they have any purview. This is an Intercollegiate Athletics building, with money raised by Athletics Development, and the Board of Trustees and President regulate ICA independent from the broader University and shared governance platform.

As Perry is a graduate of the College of Communication, FS should be upset with Scott Titsworth and his development team for not securing those $3.5MM of disposable income for a study center for CoC students, not upset with Rod, ICA or anyone else. As long as OHIO is in the ICA business, the President/Board SHOULD have a mission to improve the physical plant of ICA. FS lost, Ryan White won, now what is this, crying over spilled milk?

I am a CoC graduate, and I have never once been solicited for a gift to my college of graduation. That is something FS should be pissed off about.

So let me track this: the latest campaign just raised over $500MM, and faculty senate is spending their time formally disapproving of a $7MM project?! Time well spent, no doubt.

Last Edited: 5/19/2016 2:35:06 PM by D.A.

rpbobcat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 2:58:12 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

D.A. wrote:

Allen,I understand what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that I think the Faculty Senate purposely omitted referencing the existing Athletic Academic Center to try to and bolster their objection to the new one.

I also disagree that its not a matter of to give or not to give for a project.

In the case of the Athletic Academic Center,the university proposed the project and asked for private money to fund it.

If people didn't think it was a worthwhile project they wouldn't have gotten the donations needed to build it.

I also find it odd that,although this project has been in the works for quite a while,the Faculty Senate never spoke out against it until after O.U. secured sufficient private funding to build it.

Alan Swank
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 3:42:22 PM

Quote:

It's the university proposing the project that they object too. They feel there are many much more needed projects. The faculty senate has been objecting to this since it was first announced.

giacomo
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 4:45:18 PM

Everyone is making good points on this issue. Who can argue with private funds? Who can also argue that student athletes have much more demand of their time and could use some extra help? Travel, missing classes, more hours of practice, etc.

I personally think the athletic culture has gotten out of hand. In my day we had a brief tune up to get in shape before practice started, then the season. Most days practice was 1 1/2 to 2 hours. After the season we had no practice commitment. I tool all my difficult classes in the spring quarter and sometimes took an extra class. Of course, we all did a little something on our own time, but it wasn't mandatory or supervised. After spring quarter ended I went home and was not required to be on campus in the summer.

From what I've learned, today's athlete spends way more time on their sport. It seems to me that the school/sport balance has tipped the wrong way. That's why tutors and academic centers are being discussed. The rise in coaches pay has created this monster. They have to show they are worth the big dollars. Can you really put the "student" next to athlete any more?

rpbobcat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 6:53:18 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Quote:

It's the university proposing the project that they object too. They feel there are many much more needed projects. The faculty senate has been objecting to this since it was first announced.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel the Faculty Senate's objection is justified.

To me,the University has the right to propose any project they feel is warranted.

If the money for this project was from public funds that could have been used for something else the Faculty Senate felt was more important, fine, make your case.

But that isn't the case with the Athletic Academic Center.
The University proposed a project, and for that project to be undertaken 100% with private funds.
The donors felt it was warranted, and donated to it.

End of story.

Alan Swank
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 9:49:27 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Quote:

It's the university proposing the project that they object too. They feel there are many much more needed projects. The faculty senate has been objecting to this since it was first announced.

And many feel the university proposed a project that was neither needed and unwarranted and are willing to say that publicly.

End of story.

The Optimist
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/19/2016 9:58:45 PM

If the University needs me to "propose" any ICA projects so they can claim it wasn't their idea, they have my number.

Last Edited: 5/19/2016 9:59:01 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/20/2016 7:13:59 AM

Quote:

And many feel the university proposed a project that was neither needed and unwarranted and are willing to say that publicly.

End of story.

Allen, you said the Faculty Senate has been opposed to this project since it was first proposed.

It seems unusual,therefore,that they waited until May of this year,after the project is fully funded,to,as The Post said, "take an official stand on the matter".

If they thought it was neither needed or warranted,I would have thought that they would have passed an opposition resolution when it was first proposed,especially since the University was going to be looking for donations to fund it.

Ohio69
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RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction

Posted: 5/20/2016 9:38:00 AM

I think the Faculty lose fights like this because third parties (or Board members) look at the $500 million the university just raised, and the amount of that going to athletics during that campaign (1-2% maybe?), and wonder what the big deal is.

A long time Bobcat-affiliated person can walk around campus and sees a slew of renovated/new(or new-ish) buildings for students/academics and wonder, what is the big deal? Old Baker. New Baker. Walter International Education Center. The Engineering Academic and Research Center, Walter Hall. Copeland. Grover Center. Renovated dorms. New dorms. The Health Sciences building. Renovated dining halls. McCracken Hall renovation under way. That's a lot of colleges with new and/or relatively new facilities.

But, forget all that! We have a travesty of justice here! An alum wants to support athletics! Bring out the pitch forks! Set the bonfires! Ressurect John Snow! Get that big red headed due to rally the Wildlings!..... To War!!!!!!!

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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