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Topic:  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Topic:  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/23/2015 3:14:58 PM 
There's a difference between being a good football program and a winning football program. Look, we all love Frank and what he's done. Ohio was a cellar dweller for decades before Frank (other than the Grobe tenure). He's built a good football program that wins more than it loses most years. That's a helluva lot better than where Ohio used to be. I'm happy for that.

However, there are some things that concern me.

Frank's loyalty is both a blessing and a curse. Ohio has been damn lucky to have basically the same regime for 10 years. That simply does not happen at programs at this level. Bcat2 has pointed out that Steele loves Ohio's coaching. Yeah, because stability always looks good. Look at what WMU, CMU, NIU, and BG have recently gone through with coaching changes. NIU is an outlier in that they keep winning MAC titles, but I think that says more about the culture and identity of the football program than it does actual coaches.

It's been awesome that Ohio has had that stability because it lets fans, recruits and media know what they're getting year-in, year-out. It also shows his current players that if you do right, work hard, keep your grades up and be loyal to the program, the program will be loyal back. Does this mean that players like that get more and better opportunities? Maybe. I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised because that sounds like a good thing on both sides.

However, stability and loyalty sometimes come with a price. Sometimes Ohio can't get the recruits it should or needs. (Has anyone seen what Roger Lewis is doing at BG? He was ours, right?) Sometimes, the wrong plays are called repeatedly (BUTM) or a player simply doesn't have it that day. Sometimes, the defense allows a long 3rd down to be converted which absolutely crushes any momentum. Players have to perform, but you know what? Coaches have to coach and put them in the right position, too. And I'm not talking just about Frank here. It's the whole staff.

We can talk all day about schemes and play-calling and what have you, but it goes deeper than that. This program needs a jolt. I'm talking a big, fat lighting bolt up the rear. It's just felt so mundane for the last few years. Since the Penn State win, and the last time Ohio beat Marshall, what really has there been to get super excited about? A second tier bowl game? Yay.

I want MAC titles and a chance at a lucrative payout in a rotation bowl. This program deserves it. It's been so close, yet so far. NIU went to five straight MAC Championship games. FIVE STRAIGHT. And they won three of those. From the West Division! There is absolutely no reason why Ohio can't do the same. Or at least win ONE.

You know who else has won a MAC title since Frank has been the coach? Buffalo. Akron. Miami. You know who else has been there? Ball State. Kent State. All of these programs have been arguably bad since Frank took over at Ohio, save for one or two breakout seasons. Ball State going 12-0 was an anomaly.

I still think Frank has that jolt somewhere. Will we ever see it? Who knows. But man, just give me something to be excited about. I wanna see a 44-7 beatdown of someone we shouldn't beat 44-7. I want to scare the crap out of a Power 5 school, or hell, beat them.

Remember how awesome it was when Ohio got the black jerseys? Remember the utter elation amongst the squad? THAT is what I want. I want kids so fired up about something that they go out and tear someone's heart out. Hell, I was ready to go balls out for Frank on that night and I haven't strapped a helmet on in almost 15 years. Obviously, Ohio can't do another one of those. It needs to be something new.

Here's what I don't want:

"Well it's 1st down and 10 from the 27 yard line, Vick takes the snap and runs the read option. Oulette takes it up the middle and gets three yards." If that is the first play from scrimmage against Idaho...
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/23/2015 4:21:12 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
There's a difference between being a good football program and a winning football program. Look, we all love Frank and what he's done. Ohio was a cellar dweller for decades before Frank (other than the Grobe tenure). He's built a good football program that wins more than it loses most years. That's a helluva lot better than where Ohio used to be. I'm happy for that.

However, there are some things that concern me.

Frank's loyalty is both a blessing and a curse. Ohio has been damn lucky to have basically the same regime for 10 years. That simply does not happen at programs at this level. Bcat2 has pointed out that Steele loves Ohio's coaching. Yeah, because stability always looks good. Look at what WMU, CMU, NIU, and BG have recently gone through with coaching changes. NIU is an outlier in that they keep winning MAC titles, but I think that says more about the culture and identity of the football program than it does actual coaches.

It's been awesome that Ohio has had that stability because it lets fans, recruits and media know what they're getting year-in, year-out. It also shows his current players that if you do right, work hard, keep your grades up and be loyal to the program, the program will be loyal back. Does this mean that players like that get more and better opportunities? Maybe. I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised because that sounds like a good thing on both sides.

However, stability and loyalty sometimes come with a price. Sometimes Ohio can't get the recruits it should or needs. (Has anyone seen what Roger Lewis is doing at BG? He was ours, right?) Sometimes, the wrong plays are called repeatedly (BUTM) or a player simply doesn't have it that day. Sometimes, the defense allows a long 3rd down to be converted which absolutely crushes any momentum. Players have to perform, but you know what? Coaches have to coach and put them in the right position, too. And I'm not talking just about Frank here. It's the whole staff.

We can talk all day about schemes and play-calling and what have you, but it goes deeper than that. This program needs a jolt. I'm talking a big, fat lighting bolt up the rear. It's just felt so mundane for the last few years. Since the Penn State win, and the last time Ohio beat Marshall, what really has there been to get super excited about? A second tier bowl game? Yay.

I want MAC titles and a chance at a lucrative payout in a rotation bowl. This program deserves it. It's been so close, yet so far. NIU went to five straight MAC Championship games. FIVE STRAIGHT. And they won three of those. From the West Division! There is absolutely no reason why Ohio can't do the same. Or at least win ONE.

You know who else has won a MAC title since Frank has been the coach? Buffalo. Akron. Miami. You know who else has been there? Ball State. Kent State. All of these programs have been arguably bad since Frank took over at Ohio, save for one or two breakout seasons. Ball State going 12-0 was an anomaly.

I still think Frank has that jolt somewhere. Will we ever see it? Who knows. But man, just give me something to be excited about. I wanna see a 44-7 beatdown of someone we shouldn't beat 44-7. I want to scare the crap out of a Power 5 school, or hell, beat them.

Remember how awesome it was when Ohio got the black jerseys? Remember the utter elation amongst the squad? THAT is what I want. I want kids so fired up about something that they go out and tear someone's heart out. Hell, I was ready to go balls out for Frank on that night and I haven't strapped a helmet on in almost 15 years. Obviously, Ohio can't do another one of those. It needs to be something new.

Here's what I don't want:

"Well it's 1st down and 10 from the 27 yard line, Vick takes the snap and runs the read option. Oulette takes it up the middle and gets three yards." If that is the first play from scrimmage against Idaho...



Sir, I wish you could have been at the Independence Bowl. Not sure what the line was, but, the score was 45-14. With a 1,600 yard rusher in the backfield this crazy OC starts out with three straight passes for 80 yards and a TD. Cochran ends with 3 receptions for 162, Futrell 5 for 133. See if you can replay the game at Penn State. Scare them, no, beat them, yes. Total yards 499-352, passing 324-260, rushing yards 175-92. Tettleton was 31 of 41. Now if you see them start up the middle I contend it will be because they fully intend to wear Idaho out with it or use it to bring up the LBs & Ss in order to burn them later. Pretty much what you are asking for you have been given. Patience, new higher highs are in the future.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/23/2015 10:56:15 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
... Sometimes, the defense allows a long 3rd down to be converted which absolutely crushes any momentum. Players have to perform, but you know what? Coaches have to coach and put them in the right position, too. And I'm not talking just about Frank here. It's the whole staff....

The numbers I posted earlier show that Burrow is probably the best defensive coordinator in the MAC. He was just a shade worse than NIU, but NIU had a much better offense, and the best defense is often a good offense that keeps the ball away from the other team. So, when he nearly matched NIU, it was probably a bigger accomplishment from a defensive standpoint. To be honest, I'm a little surprised no one has hired him away.

Were they times when it would have been nice to get a three and out when they didn't? Of course, but pretty much all the rules changes in the last 20 years have been to make it easier for the offense, to get higher scores. That's the nature of the game these days. Once upon a time a great defense gave up less than ten a game, and now a defense that gives up under 20 a game is pretty rare.

BuddyLee wrote:
Unfortunately Solichs' loyalty to his OC is really hurting our chances in both recruiting skill players and on gameday. Anyone really want to stand on the table to make a case for this OC as the best we can get? I kinda doubt it.

On the other side of the ball, the Offensive Coordinator(s) have been better than average, but not by much. They rank fifth, but that's with the assistance of an outstanding defense, so they probably belong a notch or two lower. That, I presume, is why Albin was never named sole offensive coordinator, but rather was a co-coordinator, first with Gdowski, and now with Isphording. Still, he's better than average, and if he were replaced, you might get someone better (in which case he might get hired away), or you might get someone worse. Instead, I have no problem with the incremental approach, bringing in a new person as a co-coordinator, with the hopes that new ideas in the mix makes the offense even better.

Bcat2 wrote:
...Now if you see them start up the middle I contend it will be because they fully intend to wear Idaho out with it or use it to bring up the LBs & Ss in order to burn them later. ...

This is a concept that is foreign to a lot of people, but one that is important to grasp if you want to truly understand offensive playcalling. When you are playing a video game, you just want to call plays that work the best. In real life there are other factors at work, both of which you mention:
1. If you think you have a strength advantage, you might want to try to wear the other team down by running right at them. If you are right, the play may be stopped, but it takes it's toll, and as the game goes on, and the defense tires, it works progressively better.
2. You may run a play to set up another play in the future. If the other team has no fear of your running game, it is very, very difficult to pass effectively because their linemen can rush with abandon, and their defensive backs can ignore play action. If they fear the run, the linemen have to use a contained rush, and the defensive backs have to be wary of the run.

In addition, when they keep running rushing plays, to our eyes the plays may look the same, but in reality they are tinkering with the blocking, trying to alter things to make it work, or, the defense may have changed alignments. Some of these things are very, very difficult, if not impossible to see on TV because they just focus on the ball carrier. Sometimes you get a great color guy, and he will slow the action down, and diagram some of the different things that are going on up front, but that doesn't happen as often as I'd like.

Last Edited: 6/23/2015 11:01:01 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/23/2015 11:29:52 PM 
You guys are absolutely clueless.

105 hits the ball so far out of the yard that they'll never find it. His post just brings it. Just brings it.


Then, you go back to so-long-ago-that-no-one remembers triumphs and stats that don't prove squat--not squat--to anyone who's watched us over the past handful of years.


How about that last bowl game we were in when we used a trick play to get in a position to get it close (late third or early 4th quarter) and then got outscored by something like 20-0. squashola.


Get a freaking clue. 105 is telling you about a strong strong strong yearning for something better ("lightning") that is missing. It just ain't been there for a long time no matter what uselessly unrealistic perspective that you take.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 7:12:14 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
There's a difference between being a good football program and a winning football program. Look, we all love Frank and what he's done. Ohio was a cellar dweller for decades before Frank (other than the Grobe tenure). He's built a good football program that wins more than it loses most years. That's a helluva lot better than where Ohio used to be. I'm happy for that.

However, there are some things that concern me.

Frank's loyalty is both a blessing and a curse. Ohio has been damn lucky to have basically the same regime for 10 years. That simply does not happen at programs at this level. Bcat2 has pointed out that Steele loves Ohio's coaching. Yeah, because stability always looks good. Look at what WMU, CMU, NIU, and BG have recently gone through with coaching changes. NIU is an outlier in that they keep winning MAC titles, but I think that says more about the culture and identity of the football program than it does actual coaches.

It's been awesome that Ohio has had that stability because it lets fans, recruits and media know what they're getting year-in, year-out. It also shows his current players that if you do right, work hard, keep your grades up and be loyal to the program, the program will be loyal back. Does this mean that players like that get more and better opportunities? Maybe. I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised because that sounds like a good thing on both sides.

However, stability and loyalty sometimes come with a price. Sometimes Ohio can't get the recruits it should or needs. (Has anyone seen what Roger Lewis is doing at BG? He was ours, right?) Sometimes, the wrong plays are called repeatedly (BUTM) or a player simply doesn't have it that day. Sometimes, the defense allows a long 3rd down to be converted which absolutely crushes any momentum. Players have to perform, but you know what? Coaches have to coach and put them in the right position, too. And I'm not talking just about Frank here. It's the whole staff.

We can talk all day about schemes and play-calling and what have you, but it goes deeper than that. This program needs a jolt. I'm talking a big, fat lighting bolt up the rear. It's just felt so mundane for the last few years. Since the Penn State win, and the last time Ohio beat Marshall, what really has there been to get super excited about? A second tier bowl game? Yay.

I want MAC titles and a chance at a lucrative payout in a rotation bowl. This program deserves it. It's been so close, yet so far. NIU went to five straight MAC Championship games. FIVE STRAIGHT. And they won three of those. From the West Division! There is absolutely no reason why Ohio can't do the same. Or at least win ONE.

You know who else has won a MAC title since Frank has been the coach? Buffalo. Akron. Miami. You know who else has been there? Ball State. Kent State. All of these programs have been arguably bad since Frank took over at Ohio, save for one or two breakout seasons. Ball State going 12-0 was an anomaly.

I still think Frank has that jolt somewhere. Will we ever see it? Who knows. But man, just give me something to be excited about. I wanna see a 44-7 beatdown of someone we shouldn't beat 44-7. I want to scare the crap out of a Power 5 school, or hell, beat them.

Remember how awesome it was when Ohio got the black jerseys? Remember the utter elation amongst the squad? THAT is what I want. I want kids so fired up about something that they go out and tear someone's heart out. Hell, I was ready to go balls out for Frank on that night and I haven't strapped a helmet on in almost 15 years. Obviously, Ohio can't do another one of those. It needs to be something new.

Here's what I don't want:

"Well it's 1st down and 10 from the 27 yard line, Vick takes the snap and runs the read option. Oulette takes it up the middle and gets three yards." If that is the first play from scrimmage against Idaho...



Sir, I wish you could have been at the Independence Bowl. Not sure what the line was, but, the score was 45-14. With a 1,600 yard rusher in the backfield this crazy OC starts out with three straight passes for 80 yards and a TD. Cochran ends with 3 receptions for 162, Futrell 5 for 133. See if you can replay the game at Penn State. Scare them, no, beat them, yes. Total yards 499-352, passing 324-260, rushing yards 175-92. Tettleton was 31 of 41. Now if you see them start up the middle I contend it will be because they fully intend to wear Idaho out with it or use it to bring up the LBs & Ss in order to burn them later. Pretty much what you are asking for you have been given. Patience, new higher highs are in the future.



A beatdown of Louisiana-Monroe isn't exactly what I was talking about. Ohio should be beating teams like that regularly. And I'm fine with wearing Idaho out, but just stop being so freaking predictable. Change it up!
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 1:19:39 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
...uselessly unrealistic perspective...



Now that is some funny s***
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 2:18:11 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
A beatdown of Louisiana-Monroe isn't exactly what I was talking about. Ohio should be beating teams like that regularly. And I'm fine with wearing Idaho out, but just stop being so freaking predictable. Change it up!

I'm curious why it doesn't count for anything? They were 8-4 at the time, as was Ohio, and it was expected to be a close, hard fought game. I believe La-Monroe was favored, but only by a few points.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 2:39:40 PM 
L.C. wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
A beatdown of Louisiana-Monroe isn't exactly what I was talking about. Ohio should be beating teams like that regularly. And I'm fine with wearing Idaho out, but just stop being so freaking predictable. Change it up!

I'm curious why it doesn't count for anything? They were 8-4 at the time, as was Ohio, and it was expected to be a close, hard fought game. I believe La-Monroe was favored, but only by a few points.


I didn't say it didn't count for anything. Of course it counts for something. That was Ohio's 2nd bowl win. Was it a good win? Absolutely. Did it blow me away? No. That season was a minor disappointment with the way it began and the way it ended. It should have been an expectation to win that game, not some sort of thing you are in awe over. ULM was a good team that year, but they weren't a team I'm going to get over the moon excited over beating.

I realize you have to play the hand you're dealt when it comes to bowl games. It's not like Ohio gets to pick their opponent. But they took care of business like they should have. But it still doesn't help where the season probably should have ended.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 4:02:22 PM 
To me that game gave an inkling of what might have been. I think 2 or three of the 19 players that were lost for the season returned for the bowl. I'm thinking Jones, Scott, and maybe one offensive linemen. Before all the injuries that was a very good team. It was no fluke that they beat Penn State. After the injuries they were a mid MAC team.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 5:12:57 PM 
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/24/2015 11:04:36 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.


Sir Paul. I remember before the Independence Bowl you said you did not plan on wasting your time watching what surely was going to be a bad game for Ohio. Turned out Ohio 45-14, I think. So it seems when you are convinced the sky is falling Ohio is about to kick someones buttocks.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 12:50:14 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.


Sir Paul. I remember before the Independence Bowl you said you did not plan on wasting your time watching what surely was going to be a bad game for Ohio. Turned out Ohio 45-14, I think. So it seems when you are convinced the sky is falling Ohio is about to kick someones buttocks.




That Independence Bowl win was in 2012. That is, a helluva long time ago.

Why don't you tell us about the recents: 13-12 since that game...two years of our mostly lousy-teams sched with not much in the way of significant wins and some really got-crushed losses in there.

But, hey, that would require you to be reasonably objective instead of a total clown supporter of the program.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 7:12:53 AM 
L.C. wrote:
To me that game gave an inkling of what might have been. I think 2 or three of the 19 players that were lost for the season returned for the bowl. I'm thinking Jones, Scott, and maybe one offensive linemen. Before all the injuries that was a very good team. It was no fluke that they beat Penn State. After the injuries they were a mid MAC team.


I don't disagree with any of that.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 7:23:24 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.


Sir Paul. I remember before the Independence Bowl you said you did not plan on wasting your time watching what surely was going to be a bad game for Ohio. Turned out Ohio 45-14, I think. So it seems when you are convinced the sky is falling Ohio is about to kick someones buttocks.




That Independence Bowl win was in 2012. That is, a helluva long time ago.

Why don't you tell us about the recents: 13-12 since that game...two years of our mostly lousy-teams sched with not much in the way of significant wins and some really got-crushed losses in there.

But, hey, that would require you to be reasonably objective instead of a total clown supporter of the program.



Got crushed losses. You mean like the like the 51-17 to NIU. No wait, that was NIU over Bowling Green. Perhaps you mean the 52-23 to Marshall. No wait, that was Marshall over NIU. My point is such things happen. This is me, Bcat2, standing over here with Phil Steele.

Last Edited: 6/25/2015 7:24:33 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 7:38:19 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.


Sir Paul. I remember before the Independence Bowl you said you did not plan on wasting your time watching what surely was going to be a bad game for Ohio. Turned out Ohio 45-14, I think. So it seems when you are convinced the sky is falling Ohio is about to kick someones buttocks.




That Independence Bowl win was in 2012. That is, a helluva long time ago.

Why don't you tell us about the recents: 13-12 since that game...two years of our mostly lousy-teams sched with not much in the way of significant wins and some really got-crushed losses in there.

But, hey, that would require you to be reasonably objective instead of a total clown supporter of the program.



Got crushed losses. You mean like the like the 51-17 to NIU. No wait, that was NIU over Bowling Green. Perhaps you mean the 52-23 to Marshall. No wait, that was Marshall over NIU. My point is such things happen. This is me, Bcat2, standing over here with Phil Steele.


Bcat2,

I appreciate your passion for Ohio football, but cmon. Every Ohio loss last year was by 17 points or more, excluding the NIU game of 21-14. If you're gonna pick and choose examples to throw out there, you have to also acknowledge the 44-14 loss to Marshall, the 28-10 loss to CMU, the 31-13 loss to BG and the 42-21 loss to WMU. I don't think the UK game was necessarily a bad loss, but Ohio still lost by 17 points.

And least we forget the combined score of 123-16 against BG, Buffalo and Kent State the year before.

There have been bad losses, really bad ones. You can't deny that.

Last Edited: 6/25/2015 7:39:53 AM by GoCats105
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 9:33:59 AM 
One thing we should all be able to agree on (like it or not) if you believe the orlando rankings...we are mediocre. Can't get much closer to the middle of 128 than #65! Then again, we could be #124 or something like that...the good old days!
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 10:07:26 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Whether you guys want to admit it or not, excitement around the team is dwindling. Last year it was, at times, downright painful to watch us play football. In particular the CMU game was perhaps a low point in the Solich era.

If this season fails to produce either (1) wins against quality opponents, or (2) exciting football, then I would not be at all surprise to see Schaus begin to talk to Frank about moving on.


Sir Paul. I remember before the Independence Bowl you said you did not plan on wasting your time watching what surely was going to be a bad game for Ohio. Turned out Ohio 45-14, I think. So it seems when you are convinced the sky is falling Ohio is about to kick someones buttocks.




That Independence Bowl win was in 2012. That is, a helluva long time ago.

Why don't you tell us about the recents: 13-12 since that game...two years of our mostly lousy-teams sched with not much in the way of significant wins and some really got-crushed losses in there.

But, hey, that would require you to be reasonably objective instead of a total clown supporter of the program.



Got crushed losses. You mean like the like the 51-17 to NIU. No wait, that was NIU over Bowling Green. Perhaps you mean the 52-23 to Marshall. No wait, that was Marshall over NIU. My point is such things happen. This is me, Bcat2, standing over here with Phil Steele.


Bcat2,

I appreciate your passion for Ohio football, but cmon. Every Ohio loss last year was by 17 points or more, excluding the NIU game of 21-14. If you're gonna pick and choose examples to throw out there, you have to also acknowledge the 44-14 loss to Marshall, the 28-10 loss to CMU, the 31-13 loss to BG and the 42-21 loss to WMU. I don't think the UK game was necessarily a bad loss, but Ohio still lost by 17 points.

And least we forget the combined score of 123-16 against BG, Buffalo and Kent State the year before.

There have been bad losses, really bad ones. You can't deny that.




YES, HE CAN.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/25/2015 8:47:07 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
...WHy was Basham, so successful at right DE his first year, put at left DE so much last year? ....

I should add to my comments that it is normal to use a smaller, quicker DE on the weakside, and a stronger, bigger DE on the strong side. Last year Ohio did exactly that, using the smaller, quicker Basham and Laseak as weak-side defensive ends, while the bigger/stronger Smith and Sayles were used as strong-side defensive ends. Thus, which side Basham lined up on was dependent on the offensive formation.

With Sayles moving to DT, at least some of the time, and Kendrick Smith gone, it remains to be seen who will play SDE this fall. My current guess is that we continue to see Basham and Laseak playing WDE, and when Sayles isn't in at SDE, it will be Kevin Robbins (the JUCO transfer from Iowa Western), redshirt Sophomore Trent Smart, or Redshirt Freshman Kent Berger.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 2:33:23 AM 
I see potential flaws in your logic, L.C.

First, he stayed only on the right side during his freshman year. So, why'd we flop him from side to side during his soph year.

Second, do teams always keep the strong side on one side (on their left or on their right)? If they do, why did we switch Basham if he's better on the weak side...that is, why did we flop him if the weak side didn't flop?

If the teams we faced didn't have a constant weak side and we wanted Basham to always be on the weak side, shouldn't we have seen Basham switch sides as the oppo came to the line of scrimmage (if Basham was standing on the wrong side, on the oppo's strong side)? I don't recall seeing him move to the side opposite from the side which he was standing on very often.

One way or another, we sure did a good job of making Basham pretty ineffective last year, espec compared to his first year. As splendid a first year as he had, you'd think somehow that he'd have had some marked, game-changing effect in at least a few games last year. I saw them all and that was not the case.

Where's the band?!
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 8:50:18 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
I see potential flaws in your logic, L.C.

First, he stayed only on the right side during his freshman year. So, why'd we flop him from side to side during his soph year.

Second, do teams always keep the strong side on one side (on their left or on their right)? If they do, why did we switch Basham if he's better on the weak side...that is, why did we flop him if the weak side didn't flop?

If the teams we faced didn't have a constant weak side and we wanted Basham to always be on the weak side, shouldn't we have seen Basham switch sides as the oppo came to the line of scrimmage (if Basham was standing on the wrong side, on the oppo's strong side)? I don't recall seeing him move to the side opposite from the side which he was standing on very often.

One way or another, we sure did a good job of making Basham pretty ineffective last year, espec compared to his first year. As splendid a first year as he had, you'd think somehow that he'd have had some marked, game-changing effect in at least a few games last year. I saw them all and that was not the case.


You talk about logic, and then go on and say "we" did a good job of making Basham ineffective. What defensive genius would try to make their own player ineffective? You're hopeless when it comes to logic.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 10:10:28 AM 
Really? I'm looking at the result vs. the talent we saw in Basham's first year.

You don't see a discrepancy.

Yes, this staff doesn't try to lose big so often...but when the effect is the results that we see, I begin to question.

You really don't wonder about the Basham drop off? You really think that I'm the problem?

Where's the band?!
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 11:53:52 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
...
If the teams we faced didn't have a constant weak side and we wanted Basham to always be on the weak side, shouldn't we have seen Basham switch sides as the oppo came to the line of scrimmage (if Basham was standing on the wrong side, on the oppo's strong side)? I don't recall seeing him move to the side opposite from the side which he was standing on very often...

I'll try to watch this more closely this fall, but the defensive line is normally in a cluster when the opponents break huddle, and as the opponents head to the line, they will watch the tight end and the defensive line will then line up. Usually they get where they want to be, and they don't need to switch sides. On some teams, sometimes you'll see defensive ends trade sides quickly before the snap, but usually they won't because there is too much risk of being caught unprepared by a quick snap.

By the way, this isn't an "Ohio thing". Having separate strong side and weak side defensive ends is how most teams do it these days. You see it in recruiting, now, too. A few years ago the recruiting services starting listing prospects specifically as "SDE" or "WDE".

As for how long Ohio has done it this way, as opposed to right and left defensive ends, I don't know. I know that regardless of the fact that this staff has mostly been together for a long time, they haven't stopped making changes. Last year the entire defense was overhauled, and this might have been one of the changes they added as a part of the new defense.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 1:55:48 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Really? I'm looking at the result vs. the talent we saw in Basham's first year.

You don't see a discrepancy.

Yes, this staff doesn't try to lose big so often...but when the effect is the results that we see, I begin to question.

You really don't wonder about the Basham drop off? You really think that I'm the problem?


Basham was not a freshman last year. People knew about him and did some double teaming.
You're a problem with your incessant repetitions. Sorry, forgive me.

Last Edited: 6/26/2015 2:17:47 PM by colobobcat66
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 3:32:37 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
...
If the teams we faced didn't have a constant weak side and we wanted Basham to always be on the weak side, shouldn't we have seen Basham switch sides as the oppo came to the line of scrimmage (if Basham was standing on the wrong side, on the oppo's strong side)? I don't recall seeing him move to the side opposite from the side which he was standing on very often...

I'll try to watch this more closely this fall, but the defensive line is normally in a cluster when the opponents break huddle, and as the opponents head to the line, they will watch the tight end and the defensive line will then line up. Usually they get where they want to be, and they don't need to switch sides. On some teams, sometimes you'll see defensive ends trade sides quickly before the snap, but usually they won't because there is too much risk of being caught unprepared by a quick snap.

By the way, this isn't an "Ohio thing". Having separate strong side and weak side defensive ends is how most teams do it these days. You see it in recruiting, now, too. A few years ago the recruiting services starting listing prospects specifically as "SDE" or "WDE".

As for how long Ohio has done it this way, as opposed to right and left defensive ends, I don't know. I know that regardless of the fact that this staff has mostly been together for a long time, they haven't stopped making changes. Last year the entire defense was overhauled, and this might have been one of the changes they added as a part of the new defense.


It seemed clear that prior to the 2013 season coach Williams sold coach Burrow on a change from contain to attack. Sacks went from 14.5 in 2012 to 36 in 2013. Ty Branz was leading the team through six games and was injured. Mr Basham then took over for Branz and finished with 7.5 or 9 sacks depending upon who's stats you care to quote. Now that sounds wonderful, but, the increase in sacks did not result in a better defense overall. In 2013 Ohio dropped in every defensive category, most notably; Scoring D to 6th/27.5ppg and Rushing D 6th/187ypg. In 2014 common sense prevailed and priority returned to containing. The result was an improved defense in every defensive category, most notably; Scoring D 2nd/24.8 and Rushing D 3rd/132ypg. Sacks dropped from 36 to 25, but, looking at the big picture .......

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings
   Posted: 6/26/2015 3:34:00 PM 
Basham's production (and the entire defense, for that matter) dropped in 2013 after Ty Branz was injured. Both Branz and Basham were averaging about a sack per game before the Branz injury. Basham did about half as well after that, averaging a half a sack per game in the 5 games Branz didn't play in, and that was about the same pace as last year.

If we can get a good rush DE opposite Basham who can draw some blocking attention, then Basham's production should return.

"If..." The D line on this team remains my biggest question mark.

Edit: Bcat2 beat me by 2 minutes.

Last Edited: 6/26/2015 3:35:03 PM by C Money
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