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Topic: RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Topic: RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 12:16:56 PM

redhawk was 2-10 last year. But they may have a coach who can.

Beefs--5-6 last year.

Take a look at NIU's last drive against us and our response/last drive against them. That's all you need to know about that game.

I don't know how you can see these games and think that way.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 12:31:47 PM

How many years injuries an acceptable excuse?

Most of you seem to think that I'm negative. And enjoy being so.

Wrong. I'm realistic. And I don't enjoy that the truth is not what we'd all want. I'm a more enthusiastic, rabid OHIO fan than almost all of you.

Just not gonna let you all get away with allowing fantasy to stand as truth.

colobobcat66
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 12:45:08 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

How many years injuries an acceptable excuse?
Most of you seem to think that I'm negative. And enjoy being so.
Wrong. I'm realistic. And I don't enjoy that the truth is not what we'd all want. I'm a more enthusiastic, rabid OHIO fan than almost all of you.
Just not gonna let you all get away with allowing fantasy to stand as truth.

Great. You are realistic. How do you suggest we improve? What do we do about the current(last 2 1/2 year) reality that you talk about?

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 12:57:11 PM

66--That is a very fair question.

I think that it's fair to say that over the years I've suggested more specific play calls, formations, strategies that we should pursue than almost the rest of the posters on these threads combined.

I guess you all can't fully know me from flat words online. But the last thing I am is one to point out problems without suggesting solutions. It would be bad, cheap form not to do so.

I don't expect anyone to review hundreds of threads and tens of thousands of posts over the history of the football threads for my suggestions. But anyone who's fair knows that what I assert here is true--I've put up a ton of specific ways in which we can find improvement.

Heck, it's a standing joke about my 'more TE and two back sets and heavy jumbo at the goal line.'

L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 1:00:01 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

In other news, the Cavs won the Finals ..because the results would have been different if Love and Irving...

You're saying then, that since Love and Irving were hurt, and since the Cavs didn't win, their coach should be fired?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

colobobcat66
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 1:38:26 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I'm sorry, but making play call suggestions is not a good answer. If these coaches who are professionals, have studied hundreds if not thousands of hours of film on different plays, and who watch their players practice for hundreds of hours, do not choose to run the plays that you suggest, I am fairly confident that they have determined that those would not be good plays to run. Now, are there some isolated times that everybody in the stadium knows that the play that was called is probably the wrong one, probably yes- just ask Pete Carroll and Nick Saban. It's really kind of an insult to question the coaches when they know so much more than you do sitting out in Oxnard.

Paul Graham
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Location: The Plains, OH
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 6:29:44 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

How many years injuries an acceptable excuse?
Most of you seem to think that I'm negative. And enjoy being so.
Wrong. I'm realistic. And I don't enjoy that the truth is not what we'd all want. I'm a more enthusiastic, rabid OHIO fan than almost all of you.
Just not gonna let you all get away with allowing fantasy to stand as truth.

Great. You are realistic. How do you suggest we improve? What do we do about the current(last 2 1/2 year) reality that you talk about?

There are obvious weaknesses in the program that many of us noticed ages ago and are still true today. Almost all of them are fixable or have been partially corrected since we first pointed them out:

1.) Inability to convince a quality QB to attend Ohio. (still ongoing)

1a.) Inability to recognize that the QB issue *is* an issue. The fact that we're going to roll out Vick and Sprague this year is indicative of this. Or at least, we didn't bring in anyone to compete for the starting job. (still ongoing)

2.) Poor recruiting for several years...that lasted deep into the Solich era. We were winning the MAC East, playing in bowl games, etc... and still couldn't get into the top tier of the MAC recruiting-wise. Why? Well, things have improved since Haines took over in 2012 (as LC is fond of pointing out) BUT why did Haines take over in the first place? Was it because Solich recognized this as an issue and decided to replace Germano? Nope. Its because Germano left us for a better deal. (improved dramatically since 2012/13)

3.) Personnel decisions by the coaching staff do not always reflect the talent level of the individuals involved. Essentially, the guys on the field sometimes don't belong there. I'll leave it at that. (ongoing)

4.) Tenured OC and DC performing at an average or below average level. OC and DC for underperforming MAC football teams have not historically been 10+ year positions. (ongoing)

We need a shake up. Is Frank the guy to do it? I can't say I'm optimistic.

colobobcat66
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 7:28:20 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

How many years injuries an acceptable excuse?
Most of you seem to think that I'm negative. And enjoy being so.
Wrong. I'm realistic. And I don't enjoy that the truth is not what we'd all want. I'm a more enthusiastic, rabid OHIO fan than almost all of you.
Just not gonna let you all get away with allowing fantasy to stand as truth.

Great. You are realistic. How do you suggest we improve? What do we do about the current(last 2 1/2 year) reality that you talk about?

Those all all a lot better than play calling suggestions.

Bcat2
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 8:52:08 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

How many years injuries an acceptable excuse?
Most of you seem to think that I'm negative. And enjoy being so.
Wrong. I'm realistic. And I don't enjoy that the truth is not what we'd all want. I'm a more enthusiastic, rabid OHIO fan than almost all of you.
Just not gonna let you all get away with allowing fantasy to stand as truth.

Great. You are realistic. How do you suggest we improve? What do we do about the current(last 2 1/2 year) reality that you talk about?

Those all all a lot better than play calling suggestions.

And yet Phil Steele rates Ohio's coaching as the best in the MAC. The notion that things need to be shaken up is based upon the opinion that the sky is falling, which is not supported by how the team finished 2014. At the end of the season Ohio battled NIU to a 21-14 loss. Later NIU thumped BG in the MACC 51-17. Between those games NIU beat WMU 31-21. Ask NIU which opponent gave the toughest game at season's end and I would wager they would say Ohio. Some see Ohio as a sell. Not me. I would be buying all the Ohio shares they care to part with. Guess I will go with Phil Steele. I really like the young men on Ohio's roster. Again, opinion Paul/Monroe or opinion Phil Steele? I am still going with Phil Steele.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 9:30:37 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

. . . Again, opinion Paul/Monroe or opinion Phil Steele? I am still going with Phil Steele.

Wise choice!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/20/2015 11:34:49 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

1.) Inability to convince a quality QB to attend Ohio. (still ongoing)

Well, they have recruited probably a higher percentage of 3-star players or better at QB than at any other position. Jones, Bower, Scott, Jackson, Windham, and Duckworth were all 3-star or better. Febus, Sweeney, Tettleton, Vick, Snyder, and Bell were not. That's over half with a high rating, and I doubt that is true at any other position. Really, the QB play has been pretty decent most years, but the problem has been the lack of a quality backup. Last year that lack of a backup hurt. I think the QB play this fall will be fine, but if Vick gets hurt again, I'm not so sure. With a year of experience Sprague will be better, but to me Windham is the mystery - he looked very good at times, and I hope he keeps improving.

Paul Graham wrote:

...we didn't bring in anyone to compete for the starting job. (still ongoing)

Well, they did bring in Maxwell and Krizancic, and I happen to think both will be very good. Neither may help in 2015, though, but unless Vick gets hurt again, I think 2015 will be OK.

Paul Graham wrote:

2.) Poor recruiting for several years...that lasted deep into the Solich era. We were winning the MAC East, playing in bowl games, etc... and still couldn't get into the top tier of the MAC recruiting-wise. Why? Well, things have improved since Haines took over in 2012 (as LC is fond of pointing out) BUT why did Haines take over in the first place? Was it because Solich recognized this as an issue and decided to replace Germano? Nope. Its because Germano left us for a better deal. (improved dramatically since 2012/13)

To me it seems that the longer a recruiting coordinator is on the job, the better he does. That is probably because he keeps enhancing his relationships with the coaches. Germano's 2008-2009 classes were not that highly rated, but they were pretty good. When they changed coordinators in 2010, the quality dropped significantly. When they changed again in 2011, the rating of the class was better, but the class wasn't all that much better. By 2013-5, however, the recruiting classes were much better.

2008 included Bussey, Carlotta, Huynh, Futrell, Herman, Boo Jackson, Alphonso Lewis, Gerald Moore, Tremayne Scott, Tafua, Thompson, Weaver and Weller

2009 included Allen, Boykin, Dovell, Fortune, Hill, Hughes, Sam Johnson, Carl Jones, Lechner, Shaw, Tettleton, and Woseley

Paul Graham wrote:

4.) Tenured OC and DC performing at an average or below average level. OC and DC for underperforming MAC football teams have not historically been 10+ year positions. (ongoing)

I'll have to do some digging on this one. I suspect that what I will find is that over the last ten years Burrow has averaged in the top 3 on defense, and the offense is much lower, but still in the top half.

Last Edited: 6/21/2015 2:11:52 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 2:11:37 AM

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

4.) Tenured OC and DC performing at an average or below average level. OC and DC for underperforming MAC football teams have not historically been 10+ year positions. (ongoing)

OK, here's an average for the last 5 years. I used points because that's what counts, not yards. It appears that my general impression was dead on:

Defense
NIU 24.0
Ohio 24.6
Kent 25.5
BG 25.7
(UMass/Temple 27.8)
Buffalo 28.3
WMU 28.5
CMU 29.1
Toledo 29.5
Miami 29.7
Ball State 29.8
Akron 32.2
EMU 38.3

Offense
NIU 37.2
Toledo 34.2
WMU 29.6
Ball State 29.4
Ohio 27.5
BG 27.1
CMU 25.1
Buffalo 24.0
Kent 21.7
(UMass/Temple 21.5)
Akron 19.7
Miami 19.7
EMU 19.1

So, over the last 5 years, a period that includes some good times (2010 until mid-2012) and some bad times (mid 2012 on), Ohio has the second best defense in the MAC, on average, and is just a shade out of first place. As for the offense, they are quite a bit lower, but still in the top half, at 5th place, well behind the leaders.

Under no definition that I can think of would that be "average or below average level".

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 8:23:35 AM

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

4.) Tenured OC and DC performing at an average or below average level. OC and DC for underperforming MAC football teams have not historically been 10+ year positions. (ongoing)

L.C. Thanks for addressing all of Paul's misinformation. Wish there was a way to repay you for your lost sleep putting facts over off the cuff poppycock. It is Sunday so I am trying to be polite. Again, thanks for what you do.

Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

colobobcat66
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 8:57:20 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

4.) Tenured OC and DC performing at an average or below average level. OC and DC for underperforming MAC football teams have not historically been 10+ year positions. (ongoing)

L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 12:21:02 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Not a problem. It's really not a big deal. We all have selective memory, remembering things that fit the point that we are trying to make, and forgetting things that contradict it. That's human nature. That's why, rather than directly contradicting Paul, I went back to the real facts, to see if my recollection matched what really happened. In this particular case it did, but I'm sure that there are other cases where I'm wrong, too.

Happy Father's Day, to all the father out there.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

BuddyLee
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 6:14:27 PM

Unfortunately Solichs' loyalty to his OC is really hurting our chances in both recruiting skill players and on gameday. Anyone really want to stand on the table to make a case for this OC as the best we can get? I kinda doubt it.

colobobcat66
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 7:55:14 PM

BuddyLee wrote:

Frank is nothing if he is not loyal. He's not going to change now. Besides, Frank is near the end of his time here. Who would he get, knowing it's a short term situation.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 7:57:15 PM

BuddyLee wrote:

I predict that Irons up the middle (IUTM) will be much more successful than BUTM was in the recent past. Two reasons: Irons is a better runner and the OL will be better. So, instead of replacing his OC, that clever old Frank went out and recruited better players for his OC's favorite play! ;-)

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 10:28:21 PM

L.C. wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

In other news, the Cavs won the Finals ..because the results would have been different if Love and Irving...

You're saying then, that since Love and Irving were hurt, and since the Cavs didn't win, their coach should be fired?

Hey, you pointed to Vick and OUellette injuries as saying that we should view the team as kind of better than what the record indicated...or, have more hope for the future. I'm just pointing out that it's no excuse. Every team has injuries. And for us to keep pointing to injuries...

ANd, I Blatt has been there one year. OUr coach has been there, uh, a lot more than one year. Uh, maybe not comparable, maybe not a fair comparison to suggest.

Your refusal to consider that we've been unsatisfactory recently is much more unrealistic than my position.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 10:33:30 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Disagree bigtime, 66.

First, if we observers are not qualified because not fulltime, professional coaches, then we have to shut down every fan board everywhere. No one can comment unless a fulltime coach. You know that's silly.

And, a wise business person considers a good idea on its merits, without regard to the qualif of the person suggesting the idea.

Isolated occasions when the coaches are wrong? See that's not the case at OHIO. That's why BUTM became an understood acronym and cliche on this board.

THen, you hit the ex-wife syndrome. Younevertellmehowyourfeel younevertellmehowyoufeel. Well, I don't do enough, is probably true but I'm human so I'm sure that I've done it some times. Youdon'tdoitintherightway. 66--you can't ask me for my suggestions and then suggest that my suggestions are wrong or not done in the right way.

The point is exactly me sitting thousands of miles away in Oxnard and being able to readily recongize so many basics that we're doing wrong or not doing. Again, my posts thru the years have dozens and dozens of examples.

WHy was Basham, so successful at right DE his first year, put at left DE so much last year? I see the pros having success with overload blitzes (a ton of guys from one side instead of balanced with guys from both sides) and wonder why we don't try that. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Last Edited: 6/21/2015 10:35:58 PM by Monroe Slavin

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 10:42:24 PM

Maybe...I hope....that this year will be better.

But the incessant insistence that all is well...citing supposed recruit quality/improvement and predictions for this year...Well, Paul is much more accurate and reasonable when he wonders if the current staff can get MACC done in the face of a record of little achievement lately.

As I've said repeatedly, I'm not for firing anyone. I would love for The Old Ball Coach and his staff to get it done. But how many years do we give it.

I don't know the stats but I'll bet that about no one has turned it around after this many years of no championship--probably because no one lasts this long without a championship.

My goal is MACC. It's a reasonable, fair goal. If current staff can do it, I've no problem with that. But my goal is MACC, not staff tenure.

L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/21/2015 11:13:00 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

OK, I agree it wasn't a fair comparison, but it was yours, not mine.

In any case, my comment goes beyond "when they get better, we should have more hope for the future". You see, by the Buffalo game, both Vick and OUellette were better, and the team was indeed better. Ohio played three games at the end of the season with both of them reasonably healthy. First they crushed Buffalo. No, Buffalo wasn't a "MAC team with a winning record, but that was only because their Kent game was cancelled. Otherwise they likely would have been bowl eligible, and tied with Ohio for 2d, so they weren't a bad team. Next, Ohio played well against NIU. Finally, after spotting Miami a lead, the Bobcats came back to win.

I feel like the last three games set the tone for a good season in 2015. Note that I'm not saying they were great those three games, just that they were substantially better than they were earlier in the year, and that if they continue to improve in the off season, they could be better still this fall.

Last Edited: 6/22/2015 12:23:11 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/22/2015 12:51:41 AM

I was happy with the state of the program up until the collapse in 2012, so I'll start my analysis in 2009. Lets look at the QB recruits from 2009 to the present

2009 - Tyler Tettleton (no other FBS offers)
2010 - Kyle Snyder (no other FBS offers)
2011 - Derrius Vick (no other FBS offers) and Ronnie Bell (no other FBS offers)
2012 - Greg Windham (multiple FBS offers, mostly lower FBS and one from Cinci)
2014 - Joey Duckworth (multiple FBS offers, all from MAC schools)
2015 - Quinton Maxwell (no other FBS offers)

Add to that JD Sprague (no other FBS offers)

And don't get me started on the WR's that have transferred down to play QB for us.

So I count 6 of the 8 with no other offers.

Last Edited: 6/22/2015 12:52:56 AM by Paul Graham

Casper71
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/22/2015 9:52:18 AM

L.C. and Monroe, you both have valid points. In my opinion, the staff gets a lot out of the talent they have to work with. Again, the problem as I see it is, OHIO just cannot recruit enough talented players and get them to Campus. The class this year seems to be following that trend. Until we win a MACC I will continue to say you cannot win a MACC with a bunch of two star and NR guys. You may be able to come close but you just can't get 25-30 of those kinds of players at the same time to play at the necessary level to win it all. I think we have proven that over the last 10 years or so.

L.C.
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RE: Dodd's hot seat rankings

Posted: 6/23/2015 2:09:42 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

WHy was Basham, so successful at right DE his first year, put at left DE so much last year? ...

Defensive ends are often classified as "Strong side" or "Weak side", so which side they line up on will depend on the offensive formation. Basham was less successful his second year (but not unsuccessful) primarily because the other teams were more aware of him, and double teamed him more. Of course, when they double teamed him (and Crutcher), that meant they had to leave other defenders unblocked, in this case, the linebackers, which is part of the reason the linebackers looked so good last year.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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