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Topic:  RE: What is important?

Topic:  RE: What is important?
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/7/2015 8:51:56 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Wes, close but no cigar. 17 have never had a major violation and 5 of those are MAC schools!

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-schools-ncaa-violation-...


The MAC has a good reputation. For that reason I wouldn't under estimate the challenge of winning the MAC Championship. The MAC had 4 teams ranked in 2012 with the MAC Championship winner a lock for the Orange Bowl. Its not a power conference but its a good football conference and the same goes for basketball. Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.


Well, at Nebraska, 58-19, Conf Champ 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001, dismissed in 2003 when team was 9-3. The 1999 Conf Championship is Nebraska's most recent. What exactly would it take to be "A" level?

Please help me with concept of Ohio as a conference heavyweight?


As far as the concept take the AAC and compare East Carolina and Tulane. ECU is thought of a heavyweight in football and Tulane as a bottom feeder. It starts with the game atmosphere and investment which is reflected by wins. Now compare Ohio to Eastern Michigan, Akron or Miami. Ohio definitely has a better program in wins and fan support ect. FWIW Ohio is the best overall job in the MAC. It the easiest brand to recruit to as some players are just going to feel more confident with a state name opposed to a directional.


Got it, better than Eastern Michigan, Akron & Miami = heavyweight. Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.

P.S. When exactly did Ohio become the best job in the MAC?


The day the new IPF opened.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/7/2015 9:03:02 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
...And, to add another insult...I just read the article about 42 bowls in 2015-16 and in addition to UMASS, OHIO is one of the MAC schools NOT expected to make the cut for the 5 bowl gimmes the MAC has ties to. So, looks like we really are #6 in the pecking order? I hope we parove them all wrong on th field this fall!...

I had missed that article. Thanks for pointing it out. I got a laugh out of their pre-season selections for bowl eligibility, which included CMU and Akron. Both lose a massive number of Senior starters. If either team ends with more than 4 wins I will be surprised. The teams I think will be bowl eligible are Ohio, BG, U.Mass, Toledo, NIU, WMU, and Ball State. Of these, the one I think is least likely to be bowl eligible is BG who, oddly, could win the MAC without being bowl eligible. They could go 5-3, and win a tiebreaker to win the east, and could lose all four OOC games.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Stop it.
   Posted: 5/7/2015 9:04:13 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
...College football has a plate techonics to it. ...
... the landscape is such the next coach could even elevate the program further. You can call me an optimist ...

This post of yours I largely agree with. Indeed it has slow shifts, like plate tectonics. Indeed the next coach "could" elevate it more. Of course, he could also lower it, or, you could have a cycle of new coaches every year or two. I have no problem with optimism, since I'm an optimist as well. The key, though, is to be at least aware that the optimistic result we hope for is not guaranteed.

Uncle Wes wrote:
...Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.

Meanwhile, this post of yours I disagree with entirely. The staff at Ohio is certainly not as good as the staff that Solich had at Nebraska, but then the budget he has to work with is a lot smaller. Despite the small budget, he does have some very good assistants. Nearly every assistant that he has ever hired, either at Ohio or before, has gone on do do very well.

If you want to knock them for how long it has taken for recruiting to improve, I won't argue with you, but it is certainly true that they have consistently produced better results on the field than you would expect from their recruiting rankings. They even achieved, for a week, a Top 25 ranking, and did it with recruiting classes ranked between 90-120. While that's the exception, on average they have ranked about 20 places higher on the field than their recruiting rankings would predict.

As other have pointed out, Nebraska has never really recovered and gotten back to where they were in 2003. Even though he did well at Nebraska, except for 2002, I'd say that Solich is a better coach today than he was in his prior job. In any case, his contribution to Ohio goes much deeper than what has been done on the field. You remarked yourself on the Tectonic shifts, but certainly he has done a lot to improve facilities, and culture, putting in place things that will benefit coaches of the future.

Finally, I had disbelief to hear you credit his success at Ohio to the fact that Ohio is a "conference heavy weight". If they are a "heavy weight" today, it is because he has made them one, rather than his having success because he came to a school that was already a "heavy weight". If Ohio was a "heavy weight" before he arrived, why have all the other coaches since 1946 not benefited from that "heavy weight" status to the same extent, and why doesn't Ohio have a long term winning tradition?

Edit -
Uncle Wes wrote:
The day the new IPF opened.

Oh, so they became a heavy weight a year ago? I can agree that Ohio is becoming a conference heavy weight, and certainly the IPF has helped, and the Academic Center will help just as much.

Last Edited: 5/7/2015 9:09:22 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/7/2015 9:08:56 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Wes, close but no cigar. 17 have never had a major violation and 5 of those are MAC schools!

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-schools-ncaa-violation-...


The MAC has a good reputation. For that reason I wouldn't under estimate the challenge of winning the MAC Championship. The MAC had 4 teams ranked in 2012 with the MAC Championship winner a lock for the Orange Bowl. Its not a power conference but its a good football conference and the same goes for basketball. Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.


Well, at Nebraska, 58-19, Conf Champ 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001, dismissed in 2003 when team was 9-3. The 1999 Conf Championship is Nebraska's most recent. What exactly would it take to be "A" level?

Please help me with concept of Ohio as a conference heavyweight?


As far as the concept take the AAC and compare East Carolina and Tulane. ECU is thought of a heavyweight in football and Tulane as a bottom feeder. It starts with the game atmosphere and investment which is reflected by wins. Now compare Ohio to Eastern Michigan, Akron or Miami. Ohio definitely has a better program in wins and fan support ect. FWIW Ohio is the best overall job in the MAC. It the easiest brand to recruit to as some players are just going to feel more confident with a state name opposed to a directional.


Got it, better than Eastern Michigan, Akron & Miami = heavyweight. Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.

P.S. When exactly did Ohio become the best job in the MAC?


The day the new IPF opened.


Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001. There were also the 123 First Team Academic All-Conference and seven First Team Academic All-American Selections during his time.

Last Edited: 5/8/2015 10:45:30 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/7/2015 11:14:44 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Wes, close but no cigar. 17 have never had a major violation and 5 of those are MAC schools!

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-schools-ncaa-violation-...


The MAC has a good reputation. For that reason I wouldn't under estimate the challenge of winning the MAC Championship. The MAC had 4 teams ranked in 2012 with the MAC Championship winner a lock for the Orange Bowl. Its not a power conference but its a good football conference and the same goes for basketball. Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.


Well, at Nebraska, 58-19, Conf Champ 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001, dismissed in 2003 when team was 9-3. The 1999 Conf Championship is Nebraska's most recent. What exactly would it take to be "A" level?

Please help me with concept of Ohio as a conference heavyweight?


As far as the concept take the AAC and compare East Carolina and Tulane. ECU is thought of a heavyweight in football and Tulane as a bottom feeder. It starts with the game atmosphere and investment which is reflected by wins. Now compare Ohio to Eastern Michigan, Akron or Miami. Ohio definitely has a better program in wins and fan support ect. FWIW Ohio is the best overall job in the MAC. It the easiest brand to recruit to as some players are just going to feel more confident with a state name opposed to a directional.


Got it, better than Eastern Michigan, Akron & Miami = heavyweight. Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.

P.S. When exactly did Ohio become the best job in the MAC?


The day the new IPF opened.


Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.


A winning record against ranked teams.

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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 2:58:37 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Wes, close but no cigar. 17 have never had a major violation and 5 of those are MAC schools!

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-schools-ncaa-violation-...


The MAC has a good reputation. For that reason I wouldn't under estimate the challenge of winning the MAC Championship. The MAC had 4 teams ranked in 2012 with the MAC Championship winner a lock for the Orange Bowl. Its not a power conference but its a good football conference and the same goes for basketball. Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.


Well, at Nebraska, 58-19, Conf Champ 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001, dismissed in 2003 when team was 9-3. The 1999 Conf Championship is Nebraska's most recent. What exactly would it take to be "A" level?

Please help me with concept of Ohio as a conference heavyweight?


As far as the concept take the AAC and compare East Carolina and Tulane. ECU is thought of a heavyweight in football and Tulane as a bottom feeder. It starts with the game atmosphere and investment which is reflected by wins. Now compare Ohio to Eastern Michigan, Akron or Miami. Ohio definitely has a better program in wins and fan support ect. FWIW Ohio is the best overall job in the MAC. It the easiest brand to recruit to as some players are just going to feel more confident with a state name opposed to a directional.


Got it, better than Eastern Michigan, Akron & Miami = heavyweight. Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.

P.S. When exactly did Ohio become the best job in the MAC?


The day the new IPF opened.


So Franks a B level coach because he hasn't done a good job with a school that's a conference power. Yet the reason its a conference power and the best job in the MAC is because the IPF got built. But the IPF got built under Frank a year ago. The argument defeats itself. You're pretty much saying Franks a B level coach because he turned Ohio into a power and the best job in the MAC

Last Edited: 5/8/2015 3:01:14 AM by TheBobcatBandit
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 5:08:43 AM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
So Franks a B level coach because he hasn't done a good job with a school that's a conference power. Yet the reason its a conference power and the best job in the MAC is because the IPF got built. But the IPF got built under Frank a year ago. The argument defeats itself. You're pretty much saying Franks a B level coach because he turned Ohio into a power and the best job in the MAC

I understood him to be saying that, now that the IPF is open, Solich has made Ohio into a conference heavyweight. Therefore, I infer that, since this Fall will be the first season when they were able to use it the over the winter before, he will begin to hold Solich to a higher standard this fall. I also infer that he will be raising his expectations over the next several years, as the post-IPF recruiting classes begin to play a major role.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 6:48:52 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Wes, close but no cigar. 17 have never had a major violation and 5 of those are MAC schools!

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-schools-ncaa-violation-...


The MAC has a good reputation. For that reason I wouldn't under estimate the challenge of winning the MAC Championship. The MAC had 4 teams ranked in 2012 with the MAC Championship winner a lock for the Orange Bowl. Its not a power conference but its a good football conference and the same goes for basketball. Our problem is our football staff is only average for FBS and that is why we keep finishing anywhere from Top 40 to Top 100 every year the middle 50% of the division. Frank was never an A level head coach at Nebraska or Ohio, both schools a conference heavy weight in their respective conferences.


Well, at Nebraska, 58-19, Conf Champ 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001, dismissed in 2003 when team was 9-3. The 1999 Conf Championship is Nebraska's most recent. What exactly would it take to be "A" level?

Please help me with concept of Ohio as a conference heavyweight?


As far as the concept take the AAC and compare East Carolina and Tulane. ECU is thought of a heavyweight in football and Tulane as a bottom feeder. It starts with the game atmosphere and investment which is reflected by wins. Now compare Ohio to Eastern Michigan, Akron or Miami. Ohio definitely has a better program in wins and fan support ect. FWIW Ohio is the best overall job in the MAC. It the easiest brand to recruit to as some players are just going to feel more confident with a state name opposed to a directional.


Got it, better than Eastern Michigan, Akron & Miami = heavyweight. Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.

P.S. When exactly did Ohio become the best job in the MAC?


The day the new IPF opened.


Now what would coach S have needed to add to his Nebraska achievements to be "A" rated? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001.


A winning record against ranked teams.


Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

http://www.teamspeedkills.com/2014/8/21/6052897/college-f...

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 7:05:33 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
To add to what bcat2 said, there's saying, chiseled on a wall at the University of Nebraska stadium, that I'd like see somewhere in Peden:

“Not the victory but the action; Not the goal but the game; In the deed the glory.”

Compare that with a certain school up north along the banks of the Olentangy that says, "We'll win the game or no the reason why."

This doesn't mean that each school doesn't try their best to win every game, but it does mean philosophically that you do or don't understand the intrinsic value of the effort and striving. Subtle, perhaps, but there's world of difference between these two "football world views."



This in from Twitter

Scott Isphording ‏@CoachIzzy1 24m24 minutes ago

Academics first. Bobcat Football just had best semester in school history. Highest term & Accum GPA ever. #GoBobcats

Honestly this makes me happier than if there had been a MACC.

Last Edited: 5/8/2015 9:41:18 AM by Bcat2

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 9:01:43 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
To add to what bcat2 said, there's saying, chiseled on a wall at the University of Nebraska stadium, that I'd like see somewhere in Peden:

“Not the victory but the action; Not the goal but the game; In the deed the glory.”

Compare that with a certain school up north along the banks of the Olentangy that says, "We'll win the game or no the reason why."

This doesn't mean that each school doesn't try their best to win every game, but it does mean philosophically that you do or don't understand the intrinsic value of the effort and striving. Subtle, perhaps, but there's world of difference between these two "football world views."



This in frim Twitter

Scott Isphording ‏@CoachIzzy1 24m24 minutes ago

Academics first. Bobcat Football just had best semester in school history. Highest term & Accum GPA ever. #GoBobcats

Honestly this makes me happier than if there had been a MACC.


Could not agree more!! I hope to you-know-who Ohio is never known as a football factory, unlike it's step-brother 70 or so miles to the northwest.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 10:22:13 AM 
Mark, I don't think you have to worry about that!
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 10:30:26 AM 
Bcat 2, being prouder of academic achievement that a MACC:


Why don't you pose that as a poll?

Then why has that to now not been a main thrust of your comments here. Seems to be a fallback position given inability to point to on-field progress of late.


Logically extended..at least somewhat.., let's cancel the football program and pour any money saved into academics.


Last Edited: 5/8/2015 10:31:32 AM by Monroe Slavin

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 12:29:35 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.

Last Edited: 5/8/2015 12:30:59 PM by L.C.

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 12:55:35 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Bcat 2, being prouder of academic achievement that a MACC:


Why don't you pose that as a poll?

Then why has that to now not been a main thrust of your comments here. Seems to be a fallback position given inability to point to on-field progress of late.


Logically extended..at least somewhat.., let's cancel the football program and pour any money saved into academics.




To each their own, and certainly we each have varying opinions on where we want Ohio football to be, all of which are valid.

For me, and I'm speaking for myself only here: Ohio football is about where I want it to be. It does spend a modicum amount of money on football but yet doesn't bankrupt the University (unlike the Univ. of Akron). And for the most part it gets a decent return. The only thing that would make it better for me is the elusive MACC that Monroe talks about as I would like to see one of those too. And I wish FBS earnings were shared more equally like Perimeterpost advocates. But a MACC and a bowl win in a fairly minor bowl suffice for me.

Some will say that I should be hoping for more out of my school. Eh, I don't know. As I and many have said on here before, is there anything better than a Saturday football game in Athens on a nice Saturday afternoon? With Solich there have been more wins than loses (wish he could win a Homecoming game though!!!!). We go to a Fall game on Saturday, have an enjoyable time with friends watching fairly entertaining football at decent prices in a cosy stadium and leave after the game for further libations on Court Street. Does it get better than that?!?

Personally I do not want to see my school sell it's soul to try and become more like a P5 school. I do not want to see my school ruin the unique setting of its campus by erecting some gigantic football monolith that sticks out like a sore thumb. I do not want to see my school forget that its primary mission is to educate young minds and not to become embroiled in the controversies that seem to surround all of the major college football powers; I think those schools are corrupt. Absolute power (and the $ that comes with it in major college football) corrupts absolutely.

To me, it's just not in Ohio's "DNA" to be a major college football power and I'm happy with that. It didn't deter me from choosing Ohio and it didn't deter any of you. So give me a clean program that wins more than it loses, wins the occasional MACC and provides an entertaining product at a reasonable price and I'm happy.

Now as to hoops however.....
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 1:55:10 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Bcat 2, being prouder of academic achievement that a MACC:


Why don't you pose that as a poll?

Then why has that to now not been a main thrust of your comments here. Seems to be a fallback position given inability to point to on-field progress of late.


Logically extended..at least somewhat.., let's cancel the football program and pour any money saved into academics.




To each their own, and certainly we each have varying opinions on where we want Ohio football to be, all of which are valid.

For me, and I'm speaking for myself only here: Ohio football is about where I want it to be. It does spend a modicum amount of money on football but yet doesn't bankrupt the University (unlike the Univ. of Akron). And for the most part it gets a decent return. The only thing that would make it better for me is the elusive MACC that Monroe talks about as I would like to see one of those too. And I wish FBS earnings were shared more equally like Perimeterpost advocates. But a MACC and a bowl win in a fairly minor bowl suffice for me.

Some will say that I should be hoping for more out of my school. Eh, I don't know. As I and many have said on here before, is there anything better than a Saturday football game in Athens on a nice Saturday afternoon? With Solich there have been more wins than loses (wish he could win a Homecoming game though!!!!). We go to a Fall game on Saturday, have an enjoyable time with friends watching fairly entertaining football at decent prices in a cosy stadium and leave after the game for further libations on Court Street. Does it get better than that?!?

Personally I do not want to see my school sell it's soul to try and become more like a P5 school. I do not want to see my school ruin the unique setting of its campus by erecting some gigantic football monolith that sticks out like a sore thumb. I do not want to see my school forget that its primary mission is to educate young minds and not to become embroiled in the controversies that seem to surround all of the major college football powers; I think those schools are corrupt. Absolute power (and the $ that comes with it in major college football) corrupts absolutely.

To me, it's just not in Ohio's "DNA" to be a major college football power and I'm happy with that. It didn't deter me from choosing Ohio and it didn't deter any of you. So give me a clean program that wins more than it loses, wins the occasional MACC and provides an entertaining product at a reasonable price and I'm happy.

Now as to hoops however.....


Post of the Year!!!

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 2:00:57 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.


I would put Mark Richt and Paul Johnson in the B list category. It comes down to the level of job you've done at those schools and for Solich to do much of nothing at Nebraska (by Nebraksas standards of course) I have a hard time giving him that A. No MAC Championship in 10 years at Ohio. 0-3 in MAC title games. How does he get an A for that?

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 2:58:09 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

Personally I do not want to see my school sell it's soul to try and become more like a P5 school. I do not want to see my school ruin the unique setting of its campus by erecting some gigantic football monolith that sticks out like a sore thumb. I do not want to see my school forget that its primary mission is to educate young minds and not to become embroiled in the controversies that seem to surround all of the major college football powers; I think those schools are corrupt. Absolute power (and the $ that comes with it in major college football) corrupts absolutely.

To me, it's just not in Ohio's "DNA" to be a major college football power and I'm happy with that. It didn't deter me from choosing Ohio and it didn't deter any of you. So give me a clean program that wins more than it loses, wins the occasional MACC and provides an entertaining product at a reasonable price and I'm happy.

Now as to hoops however.....


With Ohio I see a program that grades out in the upper 10% at the G5/MAC level in every category. The ceiling has been raised by schools like Boise State and Wichita State who had seasons as legit national title contenders and consistent Top 20. Their performances are on the high end of what Ohio can do but where it makes a difference is the caliber of athlete that would consider Ohio these days. The facilities are or quickly becoming good enough to attract higher caliber players from far away or get players looking at power schools in our own region to stay home. Miami our top recruiting competitor in both major sports has disappeared from an athletic perspective. UC has them pinned down in football and they've pinned their own basketball program down by investing in D1 Hockey. That school has fundamentally changed athletically in a negative way in the two major sports.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 3:40:22 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
... Miami our top recruiting competitor in both major sports has disappeared from an athletic perspective. UC has them pinned down in football and they've pinned their own basketball program down by investing in D1 Hockey. That school has fundamentally changed athletically in a negative way in the two major sports.

Miami has made a major improvement in football recruiting the last three years. I think we'll start seeing the impact of that in another year or so, and they will not longer be a bottom dweller.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 5:06:02 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
... Miami our top recruiting competitor in both major sports has disappeared from an athletic perspective. UC has them pinned down in football and they've pinned their own basketball program down by investing in D1 Hockey. That school has fundamentally changed athletically in a negative way in the two major sports.

Miami has made a major improvement in football recruiting the last three years. I think we'll start seeing the impact of that in another year or so, and they will not longer be a bottom dweller.


Don't get me wrong they are making some improvements over in Oxford but they have big hurdles in place. We talk about how Athens is a remote that school is 45 minutes removed from a 4 lane highway and that in their case is never going to change. They've had a record of 38-84 over the past decade. Yes their recruiting is up some but its all relative to the rise in recruiting by the MAC the last 3 years. Again L.C. you put too much stock into recruiting rankings and senior starter counts when a lot of the problems these MAC schools face is a lack of football culture. Like that comeback win against Miami last year, does it happen in front of a packed crowd in Oxford? My guess is probably not.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 6:38:49 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
...Again L.C. you put too much stock into recruiting rankings and senior starter counts when a lot of the problems these MAC schools face is a lack of football culture. ...

I do that because those are the things that change a lot from one year to the next, while the other things shift slowly, like tectonic plates. I have a formula that I use to predict how good MAC teams will be from year to year, and tinker with it a bit each year. Last year's formula didn't work as well as the prior years' formulas, so I'll be doing more tinkering this year.

Even the tectonics are sometimes baffling, and as an example look at the NIU attendance data I posted the other day. Their team has been doing well, and their attendance keeps dropping. I have no idea what to attribute that to. Poor economy in Illinois?

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 7:03:11 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.


I would put Mark Richt and Paul Johnson in the B list category. It comes down to the level of job you've done at those schools and for Solich to do much of nothing at Nebraska (by Nebraksas standards of course) I have a hard time giving him that A. No MAC Championship in 10 years at Ohio. 0-3 in MAC title games. How does he get an A for that?


Solich did "much of nothing at Nebraska." Really, did coach Solich kill your dog or something? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Solich's 58 wins during his first six seasons as Nebraska's head coach exceeded those of his predecessors, Bob Devaney (53 wins) and Osborne (55 wins), both of whom are in the College Football Hall of Fame,Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001. Three top ten finishes (#2 in 99), coached Eric Crouch to a Heisman Trophy in 2001, there were also the 123 First Team Academic All-Conference and seven First Team Academic All-American Selections during his time.

Seriously Wes, Nebraska fans would dearly love to have those good old days again. He was dismissed after six seasons that were better than the first six seasons of the two college football hall of fame coaches that preceded him and you just can not give him any respect. Really?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 7:28:40 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
...Again L.C. you put too much stock into recruiting rankings and senior starter counts when a lot of the problems these MAC schools face is a lack of football culture. ...

I do that because those are the things that change a lot from one year to the next, while the other things shift slowly, like tectonic plates. I have a formula that I use to predict how good MAC teams will be from year to year, and tinker with it a bit each year. Last year's formula didn't work as well as the prior years' formulas, so I'll be doing more tinkering this year.

Even the tectonics are sometimes baffling, and as an example look at the NIU attendance data I posted the other day. Their team has been doing well, and their attendance keeps dropping. I have no idea what to attribute that to. Poor economy in Illinois?


What I think happened at NIU about 10 years ago is they got good after a long drought and had wins against Alabama, Maryland and Iowa State in one season. That invigorated the fan base for a few years in DeKalb and then they just go tired of it. DeKalb is not normally too interesting of a place for alumni to hang out in. Athens is a big draw in itself. One example I can give is I was having surgery yesterday and my doctor is from Youngstown. I said I went to OU and she started talking about how fun of a school it is and how she used to visit friends down there. She must have been in her early 30's and I was doing the surgery over here in Virginia. Athens is considered to be a destination place and almost everyone has something positive to say about it. I would go back to High School reunions in Ohio 3 hours from Athens and people that didn't even go to a 4 year university would talk about the Shaq of the MAC or going to Hocking College and at Peden for football games. One guy from my High School class played at Miami and he would say Miami vs. Ohio was a great rivalry. The interest in OU/Athens translates over to football/basketball attendance.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 7:33:09 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.


I would put Mark Richt and Paul Johnson in the B list category. It comes down to the level of job you've done at those schools and for Solich to do much of nothing at Nebraska (by Nebraksas standards of course) I have a hard time giving him that A. No MAC Championship in 10 years at Ohio. 0-3 in MAC title games. How does he get an A for that?


Solich did "much of nothing at Nebraska." Really, did coach Solich kill your dog or something? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Solich's 58 wins during his first six seasons as Nebraska's head coach exceeded those of his predecessors, Bob Devaney (53 wins) and Osborne (55 wins), both of whom are in the College Football Hall of Fame,Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001. Three top ten finishes (#2 in 99), coached Eric Crouch to a Heisman Trophy in 2001, there were also the 123 First Team Academic All-Conference and seven First Team Academic All-American Selections during his time.

Seriously Wes, Nebraska fans would dearly love to have those good old days again. He was dismissed after six seasons that were better than the first six seasons of the two college football hall of fame coaches that preceded him and you just can not give him any respect. Really?


He inherited a Nebraska program from Tom Osborn that was at the top of the world and dipped under his leadership. That would be like Saban moving on and Alabama promoted one his assistants to HC who followed with a bunch of 9-3 and 8-4 seasons. Would Alabama fans be happy about that?

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 8:49:03 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.


I would put Mark Richt and Paul Johnson in the B list category. It comes down to the level of job you've done at those schools and for Solich to do much of nothing at Nebraska (by Nebraksas standards of course) I have a hard time giving him that A. No MAC Championship in 10 years at Ohio. 0-3 in MAC title games. How does he get an A for that?


Solich did "much of nothing at Nebraska." Really, did coach Solich kill your dog or something? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Solich's 58 wins during his first six seasons as Nebraska's head coach exceeded those of his predecessors, Bob Devaney (53 wins) and Osborne (55 wins), both of whom are in the College Football Hall of Fame,Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001. Three top ten finishes (#2 in 99), coached Eric Crouch to a Heisman Trophy in 2001, there were also the 123 First Team Academic All-Conference and seven First Team Academic All-American Selections during his time.

Seriously Wes, Nebraska fans would dearly love to have those good old days again. He was dismissed after six seasons that were better than the first six seasons of the two college football hall of fame coaches that preceded him and you just can not give him any respect. Really?


He inherited a Nebraska program from Tom Osborn that was at the top of the world and dipped under his leadership. That would be like Saban moving on and Alabama promoted one his assistants to HC who followed with a bunch of 9-3 and 8-4 seasons. Would Alabama fans be happy about that?


And what in your reply actually diminishes coach Solich's achievements at Nebraska? Sure it does not beat coach Osborne's final five years of 60-3 overall, 37-0 in conference and 4-1 in bowls with 3 NC, but, is that now your new standard for "A" level work? You are still standing by your contention that coach Solich did "much of nothing" at Nebraska?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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  Message Not Read  RE: What is important?
   Posted: 5/8/2015 9:24:06 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Ok, now only coaches with winning records vs ranked teams are "A" list coaches. Solich was 11-14 vs ranked teams at Nebraska. I found an article on the winning vs ranked point. See the link. Six coaches make the cut. Somehow I think you worked very hard to find anything to support your point. I would bet there are many "great" coaches who do not meet that standard.

He can define "A" list any way he wants. By his definition Solich is "B" list coach, which isn't too bad. Others in the "B" list category would include Mark Richt, Paul Johnson, Bill Snyder, Bobby Petrino, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Urban Meyers, and Gary Patterson. That's not bad company.


I would put Mark Richt and Paul Johnson in the B list category. It comes down to the level of job you've done at those schools and for Solich to do much of nothing at Nebraska (by Nebraksas standards of course) I have a hard time giving him that A. No MAC Championship in 10 years at Ohio. 0-3 in MAC title games. How does he get an A for that?


Solich did "much of nothing at Nebraska." Really, did coach Solich kill your dog or something? He was dismissed in 2003 while 9-3, 58-19, Solich's 58 wins during his first six seasons as Nebraska's head coach exceeded those of his predecessors, Bob Devaney (53 wins) and Osborne (55 wins), both of whom are in the College Football Hall of Fame,Conf Champ in 1999, Big12 COY 1999 & 2001. Three top ten finishes (#2 in 99), coached Eric Crouch to a Heisman Trophy in 2001, there were also the 123 First Team Academic All-Conference and seven First Team Academic All-American Selections during his time.

Seriously Wes, Nebraska fans would dearly love to have those good old days again. He was dismissed after six seasons that were better than the first six seasons of the two college football hall of fame coaches that preceded him and you just can not give him any respect. Really?


He inherited a Nebraska program from Tom Osborn that was at the top of the world and dipped under his leadership. That would be like Saban moving on and Alabama promoted one his assistants to HC who followed with a bunch of 9-3 and 8-4 seasons. Would Alabama fans be happy about that?


And what in your reply actually diminishes coach Solich's achievements at Nebraska? Sure it does not beat coach Osborne's final five years of 60-3 overall, 37-0 in conference and 4-1 in bowls with 3 NC, but, is that now your new standard for "A" level work? You are still standing by your contention that coach Solich did "much of nothing" at Nebraska?


An A is given out when you take a program up a whole notch from where it was before. Nick Saban-Alabama (grade A). Led a historic program not only back to glory but to unprecedented achievement. Bill Snyder-Kansas State (grade A) Build a Top 15 power from one of the most hapless program at the top level. One rule about giving out the grades is there is no way to get an A without at least earning a conference championship. It did take Snyder 15 seasons to win a Big XII championship so I guess it would be fair to Frank to give him an A if he wins a MAC championship before he retires. Giving Frank an A without a MAC title is like giving a student A on a paper when he can't complete any sentences.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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