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Topic: RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Topic: RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

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L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 7:27:49 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

...Not necessarily, LC.

You are exactly correct that I did not state that correctly. I should have said "If any team is over .500, there must also be at least one team under .500." If I am going to rely on mathematical logic, I should be using the precise language to express it, so I apologize.

Pataskala wrote:

And as far as overall record is concerned, it gets even more out of kilter because nearly every team plays a 1AA school. That's how 70-some 1A schools wind up with winning records.

Yes, it seems that about 80 teams have at least a .500 record each year. Without looking, I'd guess that about 75% of the P5 teams achieve that goal. If there are 64 P5 teams, that would be about 49 P5 teams with a .500 or better record. That would mean that about 31 of the 61 or so G5 teams have a .500 or better record.

Thus, having a .500 record or better puts a team in the top half of G5 teams, so it seems it is at least somewhat of an achievement. Now, bringing Alan back into it, he said:

Alan Swank wrote:

... we should be competing for the east title each and every year considering the resources that we have committed to the program. For the life of me I don't see where that is an outrageous or unrealistic expectation.

Where, among the 61 or so G5 teams does Ohio rank in terms of committing resources to football? You can't really answer his question without that additional information. Is Ohio near the top in terms of resources devoted to athletics? Or nearer to the bottom? Again, without looking it up, my guess is that Ohio is in the bottom third in terms of resources committed, and in the top half in terms of results, and that's this year.

We still need the answer to the question of how many G5 teams win .500 in their down years, i.e. how many have managed to be .500 or better for at least 6 consecutive years.

Last Edited: 11/24/2014 8:35:32 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 8:35:08 AM

I attempted to answer my question, and this is what I came up with as the list of non-P5 teams that have managed .500 or better for 6 consecutive seasons:
Boise State - 17 seasons
BYU - 10 seasons
NIU - 7 Seasons
Notre Dame - 6 Seasons
Ohio - Will be 6 Seasons, if they beat Miami

Note that if a team was 6-6 in the regular season, but lost the bowl to finish 6-7, I still counted them in this list.

In the end, only you can decide if the expectation/demand for at least a .500 season even in rebuilding years is "outrageous or unrealistic". Had you used the word "hope", I would think that everyone who posts here hopes for at least that every year.

Last Edited: 11/24/2014 10:36:12 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 12:21:49 PM

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

We spend a lot of time on this site talking about records and wins and losses. LC, how much is .500 really worth when potentially none of those wins are against top 100 teams?

Good question, Paul. As we know, mathematically it is impossible for all teams to be over .500 because for every team over .500, another must be under .500. Now, if you factor in a win for each team against an FCS foe, it could be possible for every team to be .500 or better, but when you also factor in the P5-G5 disparity, the majority of G5 teams will be under .500, it would seem. In a typical year, what percentage of G5 teams are .500 or better?

Next, we have to add the other part of my statement into the equation, the rebuilding year aspect. Most teams will be unable to avoid a rebuilding year every now and then, with the norm probably every 5-6 years or so. If it is to be true that even in rebuilding years, the team must be over .500, then I guess one has to ask what percentage of G5 teams are able to stay over .500 for five to six consecutive years?

Only if you can answer these questions can you know how reasonable the expectation of being over .500 every year, even in rebuilding years is, and whether it is a significant achievement in it's own right.

This doesn't really answer my question though. According to RPI, none of the teams we've defeated are in the top 100 in CFB (including FCS). And I'd say 3 of our 5 wins are against teams that are downright awful (Kent, Idaho, E. Ill).

Not to mention that, as we've all noticed, the MAC East has gotten clobbered when they play the West.

This is why this bowl game talk and W-L record talk is nonsense. Who cares if we beat a bunch of terrible teams and fall backwards into a bowl? Thats nothing to get excited about.

Here's my point: I'd rather lose a close game to NIU/WMU/CMU/Toledo/etc... and MISS A BOWL GAME, then get blown out by those teams but then pat ourselves on the back when we beat teams like Idaho, Kent and E. Ill.

The best thing that happened this season IMHO is our close lost to NIU. It didn't help our record and didn't help our bowl chances...but it was a fun and competitive game with a good team. Thats what its all about!

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 12:33:14 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

...The best thing that happened this season IMHO is our close lost to NIU. It didn't help our record and didn't help our bowl chances...but it was a fun and competitive game with a good team. Thats what its all about!

You know what, Paul, I agree with you. A good game is what it's all about, and that was a good game.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 2:50:35 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

The best thing that happened this season IMHO is our close lost to NIU. It didn't help our record and didn't help our bowl chances...but it was a fun and competitive game with a good team. Thats what its all about!

Bartender, I will have whatever Paul is having.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 4:24:58 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

We spend a lot of time on this site talking about records and wins and losses. LC, how much is .500 really worth when potentially none of those wins are against top 100 teams?

HERE HERE!!! (or is it 'Hear Hear"?)

sargentfan
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 11:46:46 AM

It would be better to go to a bowl to keep the bowl streak alive which can be touted to recruits for extra time and gifts. On the other side I know if we go to a bowl game and especially if we then lose it we will be eviscerated by The Post and the faculty of the school for the costs that will be associated with the trip. So I am kind of torn, as much as I don't care for the complaints against Athletics this would be one of the easier extra costs to complain about. And we don't need any more bad press with them already complaining about why does Athletics need an Athletic Academic Facility.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 12:41:49 PM

sargentfan wrote:

I don't so much question the desire for an Academic Athletic facility, but I certainly question the priority when we have a terrible stadium and we have a stadium and arena lacking so many standard amenities. What could $4.5 million do for Peden Stadium? Answer: A crap-ton more for recruiting than a brick study hall.

Speaking of that, is there any word on the sale of naming rights to the Convo or Peden? Did that just fizzle out? no Interested parties? Holding out for big-timey offers?

Last Edited: 11/25/2014 12:42:58 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat

giacomo
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 4:07:45 PM

Regarding the academic center, why not go to the library?

Regarding playing in a bowl, some might say a meaningless bowl, I'm not in favor of it at 6-6. Maybe if we were 9-3 or 10-2 we might have something to prove and it might be against a Big 6 opponent. It's the equivalent of playing in the also ran tournaments in hoops if you don't make the NIT or NCAA. The season is long enough and there is nothing to be gained by playing. I know the coaches wouldn't agree with me.

Maybe if the kids didn't have to practice for another month, we wouldn't need an academic center.

Last Edited: 11/25/2014 4:08:19 PM by giacomo

Bobcatbob
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 4:20:58 PM

giacomo wrote:

... It's the equivalent of playing in the also ran tournaments in hoops if you don't make the NIT or NCAA. The season is long enough and there is nothing to be gained by playing. I know the coaches wouldn't agree with me.

Careful there. I have the scars to prove that a negative view towards any post-season hoops is not acceptable. CIT, CBI, you name it. It's all good. Did I mention the extra practice sessions only available if you play post-season?

giacomo
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 4:53:09 PM

At the end of a long year, maybe the extra practice is good, maybe it isn't. For example, we went to a bowl game in football last year and this year we struggled. Did it help? If you go back and look at our post season and then the following year's results, you can't make a case for it. Let's face it, the coaches are evaluated on post season play. If they have a chance to play, they will. So, the argument is moot. We won't ever turn it down.

Last Edited: 11/25/2014 4:53:36 PM by giacomo

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 8:00:53 PM

Whether we manage to solve the lock tight mystery that is the Miami defense and come back here or not, this team does not deserve a bowl. 6-6 in the SEC does not warrant a bowl. It sure as hell doesn't in the MAC. Miss a bowl, lesson learned that it takes more.

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 10:43:45 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

If there is an offer, the seniors, who I really like, deserve to end on as positive a note as they can. Plus, I would enjoy another bowl with Ohio. Also, there is a streak of bowls running. In any kind of a streak there are close calls. Teams with 20-30 straight bowls have seasons like this in the streak somewhere. Winning is not always pretty, but, it need always be appreciated.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

OhioCatFan
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 10:47:19 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

[

If there is an offer, the seniors, who I really like, deserve to end on as positive a note as they can. Plus, I would enjoy another bowl with Ohio. Also, there is a streak of bowls running. In any kind of a streak there are close calls. Teams with 20-30 straight bowls have seasons like this in the streak somewhere. Winning is not always pretty, but, it need always be appreciated.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Mark Lembright '85
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/25/2014 10:56:23 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

After tonight's game, I have to agree. I loved Ohio's grit and determination in coming back, the never-say-die attitude they had. That attitude will serve them well next year.

But, that was a bad, bad team Ohio just beat, a team that greatly helped Ohio come back. If Ohio were down 21 points to WMU, BG, NIU, Toledo or CMU there's no way Ohio would be able to come back and win. As was said on Seinfeld, let's just end the season "on a high note" with the Miami win.

Campus Flow
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 8:24:59 AM

Bowls are a way to finish the season on a high note. Beating your rival on a last second field goal after as part of a 24 point comeback win is a high note. We didn't beat a MAC team with a winning record this year so we don't truly deserve it. After last night emotionally we don't need a bowl. It doesn't look like its in the cards anyway with all the bowl eligible teams.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Campus Flow
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 8:37:25 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

sargentfan wrote:

The administration is trying to use its resources wisely and the academic center is a way to justify some more spending on the stadium. Otherwise nothing happens with the end zones. These fantasy ideas of tearing down Peden and rebuilding it come with a 100 million dollar price tag. The naming rights are probably going to be in conjunction with new scoreboards with the sponsors name on it in the Convo and Peden. The academic center is going to be used to court donors so I see the next goal of finding a Boone Pickens so that when or if Saul takes us to the Sweet 16 we can keep him.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

brucecuth
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:18:28 AM

call me cranky...call me old school...call me hopelessly out of touch. NO school with any less than 9 wins should be going to a bowl game. Bowl games should be a reward for a better than ordinary season. Now they're looked at as an entitlement for any team that did not completely suck.

Casper71
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:18:46 AM

USATODAY, today says Texas St and Cal IN and OHIO out. Looks like the season is over. Congrats to the team and staff on getting to 500 for the season and I hope L.C. is right about next year. Still looking for one more MACC before my time runs out!

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:30:15 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

"We" don't necessarily deserve it. The seniors who have been apart of Bobcat football for 4/5 years do. The other team leaders who are burying how the season ended in 2013 do. Mr Vick is back. Try assessing the season based upon the games with him at or near healthy. That is the team going forward. They will represent Ohio well and deserve every chance.

Last Edited: 11/26/2014 10:31:45 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

catfan28
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:48:41 AM

Casper71 wrote:

If Texas State beats us out getting to a bowl, I've got some land for sale...

Casper71
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:52:32 AM

I believe the Bowl they are ahead of us for was the Military Bowl which may be in San Antonio? Guess where Texas St is located...in San Marcos TX? Probably more butts in the stands from them than us.

Last Edited: 11/26/2014 10:54:56 AM by Casper71

OhioCatFan
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:53:24 AM

catfan28 wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

If Texas State beats us out getting to a bowl, I've got some land for sale...

Alan and BTC are saying that this is because we are going to refuse any invitations. Perhaps, USAToday knows that we are not going to accept.

Last Edited: 11/26/2014 10:53:51 AM by OhioCatFan

catfan28
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 10:57:02 AM

Military Bowl is in DC...so I think we would be preferable.

Also, no way we turn down a bid. Did you see the celebration on the field last night? That was for getting bowl eligible, no doubt about it.

giacomo
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/26/2014 11:20:03 AM

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/gene-collier/2014/11/2...

Gene Collier from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette nails it.

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