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Topic: RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite? (NT)

Topic: RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite? (NT)

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bobcatsquared
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,042

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite? (NT)

Posted: 11/18/2014 6:07:22 PM

Last Edited: 11/18/2014 6:09:01 PM by bobcatsquared

bobcatsquared
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,042

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/18/2014 6:10:26 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

You seem to learn by running your mouth. I learn more by keeping mine shut most of the time.

Says the poster with over 5,500 posts.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/18/2014 10:33:28 PM

Doesn't mean I don't listen a lot--a lot--you clowns.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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The Situation
General User

Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 957

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 9:54:36 AM

Paul Graham wrote:

My statements, "Ohio is not a top-tier MAC team PBK" and "Ohio has not been competitive with top-five MAC teams PBK" are not theories or hypothesis. They are logical statements which are provably true...assuming we formally define a few of the terms.

If that constitutes a straw man, then I assume that you agree with those prior statements and sign off on their correctness? If so, feel free to put that in writing. I know my good friends Casper and Monroe would love to read it.

The straw man is to take data you've posted from the last two seasons and draw a bigger, scarier conclusion than the actual data supports.

Is it fair to report OHIO finished in x and y in 2012 and 2013? Absolutely.

Is is fair to conclude, OHIO finished x and y in 2012 and 2013, therefore OHIO must replace A and B? A diligent evaluation would look at the body of work of individuals A and B over the much larger available data set. A diligent evaluation would also declare and assess extenuating circumstances related to OHIO finishing x and y in 2012 and 2013.

Your straw man doesn't scare me.

Bcat2
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 10:38:36 AM

The Situation wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

Nice try Situation. You may, however, be shooting way over your target's heads. But, like the Air Force says, "Aim High." If you are only a few years out of school Ohio is worth every penny.

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 10:39:11 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

The Situation
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 957

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 10:55:50 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Tough to have a discussion with a guy who's always right, won't admit anyone who disagrees could be giving insight, and who demands that you play by his rules and judgments even if those rules and judgments change or don't necessarily make sense.

I've verbally communicated the words "I am wrong" so often in life that I have developed an advanced understanding of why the phrase "I am wrong" has very little value. At first, years ago, it was tough to admit when I was wrong. But now I'll toss the phrase "I am wrong" around like a spare penny at the convenient store.

The result oriented world we live in doesn't care about who was "wrong". The world cares about the meeting the desired outcome. The world cares about results.

So when a QB, or a coach, or (yes I've see this before) an offensive lineman, says something like, "You can blame the loss on me.", I laugh, literally. Yeah the guy may have done something "wrong". But admitting that isn't going to change the letter in the W/L column.

Communicating precisely what happened has more value to all parties involved than arbitrarily slapping some label "I am wrong" on the sequence of events. Fortunately, the entire record of our discourse over the years is kept on this website. If you feel I've been wrong about something, copy-paste works on your computer the same it does mine.

I've experienced similar criticisms to the ones you are (and have been) alleging. Most of the "know-it-all" allegations came around 2nd grade when I was dominating the Around the World flash card games.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I'm amazed that someone out of school for 2+ years thinks he knows so much. I don't want to get into a battle of smarts and experience (that's pointless) but you might consider that those of us who've seen more than you could have a leg to stand on.

We can objectively measure "smarts". Your reference to "experience" is ambiguous. Can you operate a drill rig? Do you have experience selling crystal meth? I really don't know what I can use you for until you tell me a little bit more about your "experience". If I had to take a stab in the dark, I would guess your "experience" all started off with a spoiled childhood, which can really set you behind the 8-ball in life sometimes.

Also, help me out here. If it's possible, help me find the truth. Does your lack of experience coaching college football at the FBS level give you an advantage or disadvantage compared to Frank Solich? I'm not concerned with your hypocrisy. Ultimately, hypocrisy is irrelevant when assessing the validity of an argument. I'm just interested in which of your hypocritical arguments is valid. Experience vs. Lack of Experience.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

You seem to learn by running your mouth. I learn more by keeping mine shut most of the time.

This was my favorite part of anything you've ever posted.

I'm out here, running my mouth in the real world, shooting proverbial free throws. I'm in the proverbial gym, shooting proverbial free throws almost every day. I shoot more "free throws" than any one I've ever known personally. The people who I suspect put in more practice than me, as you can imagine, are very successful in their respective fields.

How can you claim to know the intimate details of making a "mistake" without making the mistake yourself? How do you know where the actual boundaries in business and life are, unless you yourself push those boundaries?

Or in the words of Hunter S. Thompson:

"The Edge� there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

...

So yeah Monroe. I'm aggressively pushing the limits on a regular basis, while responsibly executing a self-sustainable life style (my measure of success). And when I push I learn. This is practice.

Do you think you can stay at home with your mouth shut and learn as much from this world as I have? No one's in charge Monroe. You're missing out.

I've come across far too many guys like you in life disguised as the wise man who in reality knows nothing but the cloak they put on (the keep your mouth shut and smile facade). I've learned from experience why I need to keep my mouth shut. Why is the operative word. It's like burning your hand on the stove. Once it happens you'll never forget. There are times now where my younger self would have said something that the man I am today would not. And yes, there are still lessons for me to learn.

What I'm trying to figure out though:

Are you a has been Monroe, or a never was?

I say this because apparently you think you can get what you want out of life without an intense amount of practice. Only outliers can reach those lofty goals in that fashion. Do you have a special gift that we don't know about? Do your talents transcend the message board? I don't recall seeing any plans for the to-be-constructed Monroe Slavin Running Backs Facility at Ohio University. You do realize, all message board chatter aside, the only tangible impact any alumni unaffiliated with coaching staff can have on this Football team is $$$$$$. Since the aforementioned facility doesn't exist, I'll assume it's because you didn't put in as much practice as you should have many many years ago.

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 11:03:42 AM by The Situation

The Situation
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 957

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RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 11:10:20 AM

Back on topic.

As long as Frank Solich is on this staff next season, OHIO is my favorite to win the MAC East next season. And I have no qualms about Tim Albin being by his side.

Paul Graham
General User

Member Since: 1/18/2005
Location: The Plains, OH
Post Count: 1,424

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 1:14:00 PM

The Situation wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

After reading this response, I'm fairly certain you have no idea what a Straw Man fallacy actually is.

In order for my previous post to have committed such a fallacy, I would have been required to have mischaracterized your (or someone's) position and then went on to refute that distorted position.

I made the logical statement that ***"Ohio is no longer a top-tier MAC football program over the last three seasons and that we have struggled to compete with top-tier MAC teams."*** I (incorrectly?) assumed you did not agree with that statement.

If I did commit a Straw Man fallacy, then you must ***agree*** with the statement above. If you don't agree with it, then I don't see how such a fallacy could have been committed.

Why don't you go on record...do you agree with that statement or not?

Regardless, I realize you're a young kid and all but this faux intellectual stuff is so obnoxious and doesn't belong on a football message board. As someone getting a PhD in a science/engineering field (yes I'm going to play that card), I'm embarrassed for you.

The Situation
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 957

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/19/2014 3:03:32 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

After reading this response, I'm fairly certain you have no idea what a Straw Man fallacy actually is.

Paul I'm well aware of of what a straw man fallacy is. That phrase is used more times on this site than the incorrect spelling of "methinks". You'll have to take my word for it, I have studied for (but have not taken) the LSAT. Your post isn't a revelation.

Creating the confusion by using a word to create imagery too close to such a well known flaw in reasoning is my fault. I was wrong to say straw man. I should have said scarecrow. To clarify I was referring to you creating a straw man to scare us all away. You tried to build an intimidating conclusion (your positions on Solich and the like), but the final product only faintly resembled the form of a strong argument.

If there is any doubt now to my intent, re-read my prior explanation:

The Situation wrote:

The straw man is to take data you've posted from the last two seasons and draw a bigger, scarier conclusion than the actual data supports.

...

Your straw man doesn't scare me.

BTW, sidebar on the Straw Man Fallacy. Why is it called a straw man fallacy? Who would beat up a straw man? Is that even a thing?

Paul Graham wrote:

Why don't you go on record...do you agree with that statement or not?

Because I wasn't accusing you of a straw man fallacy. The first use of the word fallacy on this thread originated from your screen name. I agree with the defined results you reported. I do not agree with your broader conclusions allegedly supported by the results.

Paul Graham wrote:

Regardless, I realize you're a young kid and all but this faux intellectual stuff is so obnoxious and doesn't belong on a football message board. As someone getting a PhD in a science/engineering field (yes I'm going to play that card), I'm embarrassed for you.

If the moderator wants to ban me, or flag me, or whatever for tangential posts, so be it. I spend too much time on here anyway. You could, if you choose, revert to old school self-moderation tactics (aka just ignore my posts).

Speaking of higher education: I actually dropped out of grad school at the start of my second year. I worked in Columbus as an engineer while going to grad school in Athens. After that first year, for me, the opportunity cost of continuing with a free education was too great (the free education plug isn't to toot my own horn, free tuition and stipend is quite common beyond the undergrad level, of which I still am in debt to). I'm not trying to be the best at at running experiments or grading papers. My unfinished thesis was titled "The Optimization of Municipal Solid Waste Stream Energy Recovery through Anaerobic Digestion". Hopefully the next 3, 4, 5 years you spend after your master's to obtain your PhD in a will earn you all the respect in the world in some other insanely specific topic.

As for your embarrassment, let me teach you a life lesson. You're the only one who can embarrass yourself.

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 3:19:10 PM by The Situation

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: OHIO a Statistical Phoenix; 2015 MAC East Favorite?

Posted: 11/21/2014 3:16:32 AM

The Situation wrote:

Back on topic.

As long as Frank Solich is on this staff next season, OHIO is my favorite to win the MAC East next season. And I have no qualms about Tim Albin being by his side.

Statistically...or however you do your unassailable analysis...the above is a very interesting opinion in light of our results over the last 30 games.

I wonder how many coaches in any sports have 2.5 years of really pretty abysmal ball, then come back the next year to bring it to the top. From that group, tell me how many have been at the same school for 10 years with no conference championship. Gotta be mighty few.

Doesn't mean it can't be done. Especially because in the MAC, to get to the title game all you have to do is win 2-3 mildly competitive games (because we'll play 3-4 other MAC teams which are among the nation's worst). I 'spose we could compete a bit for the East, which is saying very little given kents/kron/redhawk/miami.

GET SOMEONE IN HERE WHO CAN LEAD US TO A MAC TITLE.

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