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Topic: Say you are Frank...

Topic: Say you are Frank...

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LoganElm_grad09
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Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:12:05 AM

There's quite a few people on here who are really unhappy about how this season has gone and others who defend what Frank has done/is doing. This is not a thread calling either side out, or trying to provoke people into arguing.

You're in the position of Coach Solich. Is there time to turn this season around, or are you praying that next year and the year after are what they are looking to be (and trying to build toward it)? What do you do?

Don't take this as somebody saying they could do it better than Frank or somebody trying to had him a suggestion box. I'm curious as to what you would do.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:31:20 AM

What harm could there be in trying a few new things a bit, at the least. It's fairly clear that this won't be a rousing (MACC) season and hope is that next year is a lot better. Trying some different things could further this year and/or help set up next year.

Let me re-phrase your question, if I may: Would it be smart to keep on doing what we're doing without changing anything?

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Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:27:28 PM

I'd say I had a lot of fun returning OHIO to respecibility but it is now time for me to retire and let the next coach continue the progress.

ytownbobcat
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:30:29 PM

If I was Frank I would look for ways to upgrade my recruiting staff and aim higher for talent.

Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:35:12 PM

Monroe, don't they call that (doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results) INSANITY!

DublinCat
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 1:52:00 PM

Its difficult for any team to replace nearly their entire starting offense. As one of college footballs youngest teams I do continue to see improvement.

I would say looking forward to a possible MAC record 6th straight bowl game.

I would say "obviously" its not an easy feat to finish each season bowl eligible in the MAC which is why its a new MAC record each year we extend it.

There are 10 other teams in our league that would love to claim the same record and cannot. Those that say its easy to make a bowl game EVERY year in the MAC please re-read the previous sentence.

The past two recruiting classes should begin to see even more improved play starting next year. Hopefully we can rebound the next three games and keep the MAC record bowl streak moving forward.

OU87

L.C.
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 6:35:25 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Yes, it would be smart to keep doing what we are doing. They can try a few new wrinkles, but a team can't change things totally in the middle of the season. I've seen teams try to do that, and it always ends badly. Didn't Miami trash it's offense a couple years ago, and switch from a passing attack to option in mid-season? The result was as string of horrible losses, and the coach getting fired, as I recall. Didn't Knorr change the offense totally a couple times? Did that solve the problem?

The problem is that if they do a play 90% right, but one guy misses a key block, it doesn't work. Yet, if they get that last step, it works well. You and I look at the play, and we see "oh, that didn't work", but we don't have the ability to see if it was just one missed block that kept it from working, or if it was an across the board failure.

Let's say that the coaches determine that it was just a single missed block. Is it better to try to fix that 10% that isn't right, and work off the 90% that is, or is it better to throw out the 90%, and start over, and try something totally new? The answer is that it is usually better to keep the parts that are working, and try to fix the places where things are breaking down.

Turning the question around to you, and putting it in a business setting, say you build a factory, and it has 11 machines in it. The factory is producing goods, but some of them are defective. Is it better to try to fix the production, or to shut the factory down, and build a new factory from scratch, and hope the new factory works better than the old one?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:28:26 PM

L.C., the odds are we are going to have a string of bad losses to end the season this year if nothing changes.

OUcats82
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:33:00 PM

Casper71 wrote:

L.C., the odds are we are going to have a string of bad losses to end the season this year if nothing changes.

That's the thing that makes it hard for me to get too exciting about the consistent bowl qualifying etc. A string of bad losses to end the season would be a similar script for the third year in a row.

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L.C.
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:40:39 PM

Casper71 wrote:

L.C., the odds are we are going to have a string of bad losses to end the season this year if nothing changes.

I don't agree, but, even if it is a possibility, would it be better to make it a sure thing?

I'm not a great fan of the pistol offense, to be honest, but it's what we have. You can't change horses in mid-stream, and if you try, disaster is certain.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:54:40 PM

I don't necessarily mean the pistol but the staff has to change its thought process and they need to find some real players from the current roster. If what they have been trotting out there is the best we have I can only say welcome to 1980s OHIO football. Again, been there, seen that, don't like it.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 9:41:45 PM

Casper71 wrote:

I know you're about my age and that you've seen the dark days of OHIO football, and I can sympathize with your anxiety. However, I think you are letting your past experience with horrible OHIO football cloud your thinking. If you look at things objectively the following stand out: 1. We are getting good recruits, 2. We have a young team, 3. We had one bad recruiting year (2010) and this now our senior class, 4. Frank says that in terms of pure talent this is the best group of players he's had since he's been at OHIO, 5. The issues in late 2012 were injury related, 6. The issues in 2013 were very bad team chemistry, 7. This year's team, by all reports, is very cohesive and is working very hard to improve, 8. We had a key QB injury this year that may have cost us at least one game in the win column, 9. Frank has taken a program building model and red shirted some guys this year because it was in the best long-term interest of the program rather taken a quick-fix approach to this year at the determent of the program's future. I could go on, but I guess you get my point. Personally, I won't be at all surprised with AJ, Vick and Cope back that OHIO wins out from here. GO OHIO!

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Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:05:51 PM

OCF, I can only say I hope you are right. But I have played, coached and been around athletics of all levels (even collegiate) all my life. My experience is, once you lose that "magic" it is very difficult to get it back. I just think after ten years this ship has sailed to the promised land and returned probably never to reach the shores we all had hoped for. Like i said, i hope I am wrong.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:12:18 PM

I understand, Casper. I not only hope, but I'm fairly confident that you are wrong. If I'm wrong, I'll publicly admit it. I won't go into hiding.

Campus Flow
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:23:57 PM

Frank is in a tough position because on one hand it would be easy to walk away after a disappointing season and just say its been 10 years and its time but he's got a contract for two more years and there is zero pressure to give him the axe, even if he's 4-8. If Frank wins 9 games next year is he going to want an extension? Then you look at those future schedule which contain a series with UMass and another rumored series with New Mexico State and you've got to feel like Frank's imprint is continuing. Part of what may prevent his seat from getting warm may not be the performance on the field but how the recruiting has looked the last few years with more in-state players. A lot of these in-state guys turn out to be misses and we were better in some regards relying on more transfers and JUCOs that could immediately fill an experience gap. Guys like Prior, Mooney, Leftwich Brothers, Boo and Theo they gave us a talent edge on the field. That is how Marshall wins, not because they sit on a powder keg of local talent. Some of those early commits do not pan out.

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Campus Flow
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:42:23 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Frank probably looked at it that back-2-back bowl wins were just the beginning and he wanted to do as NIU did get this program into a BCS bowl. He thought with his great early commit in-state recruiting classes that he couldn't get before that now he had the players for that type of run. He went away from what was helping him out the most which was transfer/JUCO experience and 3-star guys from Nebraska like Noah Keller. The team has flipped from 45% Ohio players 5 years ago to 65%. The answer might be to limit the in-state offers to 3-star guys in an effort to get less misses.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:52:45 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

I don't think that the comparison is a valid one, Wes. Wait about two years and see how these new recruits pan out. It's way too early to make any definitive statement about the value of the recruits in the last two classes. Frank has said personally that they are his most talented classes ever at OHIO. I don't think he was blowing smoke with those assessment. He did not say, however, that these guys were ready to come in and play like seasoned veterans as freshmen or sophomores. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Last Edited: 10/26/2014 11:53:50 PM by OhioCatFan

Casper71
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:53:07 PM

Bingo Wes...I think that is a big contributing factor.

Campus Flow
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 12:29:12 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Uncle Wes wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Outside of Ouellette, Polling, Robbie Walker, Sebastian Smith, Brunis nobody else in the last 2 classes has done anything. Basham but he was from Hargrave. We don't have any MAC all freshman team candidates on the roster. Perception on how things are going will come back to how this season finishes up. Does the offense finally come around and we make a bowl? As long as Frank keeps making bowl games his job is safe.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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L.C.
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 5:34:16 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

Outside of Ouellette, Polling, Robbie Walker, Sebastian Smith, Brunis nobody else in the last 2 classes has done anything. Basham but he was from Hargrave....

From the 2013 class, almost the entire class has played, which is very unusual. Besides Basham, Poling and S. Smith who you mentioned, these are the other freshmen/sophomores, almost all of whom are playing regularly:
Alexander started at WMU
Wood would be starting, but is out for the year
Cope has started multiple games, but is currently hurt
Mangen has started every game
Sayles has started many games
Quallen was playing every game until he got hurt
Porter has played in about half the games
Smart has played in about half the games
Aloese has played in a few of the games
Morgan has played in most games, when not hurt
Wyatt and J. Brown just traded positions, but both have seen the field
C. Brown - hasn't played yet, I think
Murdock - hasn't played, but has been hurt, I think
Stewart - has left the program

From 2014, besides Ouellette, Walker, and Brunis, how can you forget Pruehs, who has started all the games but one? And what of Lowerey, Langenkamp, McCray, who have all have played regularly on the line? and Kylan Nelson, who has played extensively at corner, and Brunson, who has also played? And Papi White, who was playing, until he got hurt.

To have almost everyone playing in their second year from a recruiting class is very unusual. Most classes have had a significant number of players that never played much. For example, the 2011 class included players like Curtis, Weller, Price, Bell, Bennett, and Haser besides the ones like Russell, Crutcher, etc. that we remember.

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 5:42:38 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 8:00:37 AM

Playing is different from performing/executing at a high level though, isn't it? Not saying they aren't going out there and trying, they just aren't very good at it yet.

The Optimist
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 8:17:40 AM

I would have a heart-to-heart with Tim Albin.

I've seen crazier things happen.

L.C.
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 8:49:25 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Playing is different from performing/executing at a high level though, isn't it? Not saying they aren't going out there and trying, they just aren't very good at it yet.

No doubt they will improve in the years ahead, after a few more years in the weight room, a lot of practice, a lot of coaching, and a lot of time studying film. That's perfectly normal. Players are rarely "great" as Freshmen, but if a player is good enough to get on the field at all as a Freshman, they are normally very good by their Senior year.

As a recent example, Crutcher played as a true freshmen. Back then he wasn't really that good, but now, as a Senior, he's considered a borderline draft pick. It's worth nothing players like Mitchell, Price, Brazill, Carrie, and Herman, who ended up getting drafted, all played as true freshmen. None were "stars" as Freshmen, but they all got on the field.

My point was not that they are great already, but that, given how many of them have played already as Freshmen, it's reasonable to conclude that, by their Senior years, the classes of 2013 and 2014 will be something special. That's also consistent with comments Solich has made about the two classes being very good.

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 8:52:15 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 9:12:44 AM

As a comparison, I'm looking at Freshmen records for receiving in the Ohio Media guide. The top 5 by #catches are:
Mayle 25
Dunlop 22
Henton 19
Welsh 16

and by yards:
Mayle 515
Henton 325
Dunlop 278
Welsh 186
McRae 172

Current Freshmen this year so far:
Cope has 15 catches for 253 yards
Walker has 4 catches for 60
Brunis has 5 catches for 57

Other current players, as Freshmen had:
Jordan Reid had 6 catches for 61 yards
Sebastian Smith had 12 catches for 82 yards
Landon Smith had 3 catches for 24 yards
Chase Cochran had no catches as a Freshman

Other recent historical players as Freshmen:
Price had 9 catches for 77 yards
Brazill had 16 catches for 201 yards
Foster had 9 catches for 151 yards

Especially considering that the QB position has not been as strong this year as in some prior years, I think Cope, Walker, and Brunis are looking pretty good compared to some of these other players as Freshmen. Cope is already in the record book, and could finish as high as 2d.

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 9:13:31 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Ohio69
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RE: Say you are Frank...

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:17:06 PM

LoganElm_grad09 wrote:

I'm curious as to what you would do.

I am fairly clueless regarding Xs and Os on football. But, here goes anyway:

I would trust the program I have built, and the process the program follows. I may give some "new" players a chance to play more and make an impact. I would try to figure out if there are schemes/plays that just aren't working and replace those with schemes/plays that are working - as much as possible.

That's it for in-season changes.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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