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Topic:  PA state colleges to merge

Topic:  PA state colleges to merge
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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
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  Message Not Read  PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/17/2020 12:03:11 PM 
https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/officials-at-penns... /

Some on this board have said maybe Akron and Kent merge. Indiana U of PA saw enrollment tumble from 15k to 10k. And they were thought to be the crown jewel of the system.
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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/19/2020 1:43:06 PM 
I don't see why a merger of Akron and Kent is particularly logical aside from the fact that both campuses are close by. Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.

All the branch campuses of the four year universities seem to be the most suspect. OSU is using theirs successfully as feeder campuses for those who don't qualify under their admission standards. For the other state universities all they do is serve the purpose of competing with 2 year colleges and online programs.

OU might want to consider selling Chillicothe and Zanesville to raise cash as part of a structural downsize. They don't seem to fit the 21st century OU model with the online delivery and presence with centers in Dublin, Cleveland Heights and Beavercreek which promote the idea of OU as a high end educational brand.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 1:34:36 AM 
The Chillicothe and Zanesville and Lancaster and Belmont branches serve their communities and are also important as a transition from HS to qualify kids to move to the Athens campus.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 451

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 8:48:36 AM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
I don't see why a merger of Akron and Kent is particularly logical aside from the fact that both campuses are close by. Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.

All the branch campuses of the four year universities seem to be the most suspect. OSU is using theirs successfully as feeder campuses for those who don't qualify under their admission standards. For the other state universities all they do is serve the purpose of competing with 2 year colleges and online programs.

OU might want to consider selling Chillicothe and Zanesville to raise cash as part of a structural downsize. They don't seem to fit the 21st century OU model with the online delivery and presence with centers in Dublin, Cleveland Heights and Beavercreek which promote the idea of OU as a high end educational brand.


Totally agree about branch campuses. They're utterly redundant to the community colleges. What's truly ironic is that OSU--the school that has found the formula to make them work--never wanted them. They opened theirs in response to the rest of the system (Ohio and Kent particularly) opening so many of them. Ohio even had planned to open one within the Columbus city limits before some kind of truce was brokered. Throughout the 70s, OSU argued that all the schools should fold their branch campuses into a statewide community college system but were rebuffed by other schools. Today, of course, they use them to stockpile hundreds of well qualified kids who wait for a chance to transfer to the Columbus campus while the rest of the system is starving for enrollment. Talk about the concept of "blowback."
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,560

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 11:14:51 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The Chillicothe and Zanesville and Lancaster and Belmont branches serve their communities and are also important as a transition from HS to qualify kids to move to the Athens campus.


You find it interesting Jeff that the only branch campuses that these posters want closed are the ones in the Appalachian Region, and open more in the larger Ohio cities.
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BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 6,560

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 11:17:34 AM 
OUPride wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
I don't see why a merger of Akron and Kent is particularly logical aside from the fact that both campuses are close by. Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.

All the branch campuses of the four year universities seem to be the most suspect. OSU is using theirs successfully as feeder campuses for those who don't qualify under their admission standards. For the other state universities all they do is serve the purpose of competing with 2 year colleges and online programs.

OU might want to consider selling Chillicothe and Zanesville to raise cash as part of a structural downsize. They don't seem to fit the 21st century OU model with the online delivery and presence with centers in Dublin, Cleveland Heights and Beavercreek which promote the idea of OU as a high end educational brand.


Totally agree about branch campuses. They're utterly redundant to the community colleges. What's truly ironic is that OSU--the school that has found the formula to make them work--never wanted them. They opened theirs in response to the rest of the system (Ohio and Kent particularly) opening so many of them. Ohio even had planned to open one within the Columbus city limits before some kind of truce was brokered. Throughout the 70s, OSU argued that all the schools should fold their branch campuses into a statewide community college system but were rebuffed by other schools. Today, of course, they use them to stockpile hundreds of well qualified kids who wait for a chance to transfer to the Columbus campus while the rest of the system is starving for enrollment. Talk about the concept of "blowback."


Why is the simple fact that it's not OSU's fault that people want to attend there and will go the branch route for a year to attend their school of choice. You act like it's OSU's fault that people want to go there and make the personal decisions that they do. Maybe instead, all the other schools in OHIO have failed in that regard?
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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 12:13:36 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The Chillicothe and Zanesville and Lancaster and Belmont branches serve their communities and are also important as a transition from HS to qualify kids to move to the Athens campus.


You find it interesting Jeff that the only branch campuses that these posters want closed are the ones in the Appalachian Region, and open more in the larger Ohio cities.


Why would we want to close Osteopathic medical colleges in Dublin or the Cleveland Clinic which is serving a high end medical need for the state? Campuses tied to the economic power centers of the state? Also the engineering center in Beavercreek tied to supporting the economy Wright Patt Air Force Base.

I don't recommend closing the Appalachian campuses I question whether that OU is the right university to be running them when OSU or Kent St might be the more appropriate university. OSU has the overflow problem and Kent has branded itself as the ultimate Northeast Ohio public university.

OU Southern doesn't have anywhere else to go than OU because of location an Lancaster is a component of the Central Ohio backyard strategy to go along with Pickerington Center and the Dublin medical school.

Again as you pointed OSU is such a hot school of choice (though I fail to understand how a degree from there is any better than other universities in the system in 90% of the majors) they might as well be filling the branch campuses more efficiently with stronger demand.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 6,560

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/20/2020 3:13:58 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The Chillicothe and Zanesville and Lancaster and Belmont branches serve their communities and are also important as a transition from HS to qualify kids to move to the Athens campus.


You find it interesting Jeff that the only branch campuses that these posters want closed are the ones in the Appalachian Region, and open more in the larger Ohio cities.


Why would we want to close Osteopathic medical colleges in Dublin or the Cleveland Clinic which is serving a high end medical need for the state? Campuses tied to the economic power centers of the state? Also the engineering center in Beavercreek tied to supporting the economy Wright Patt Air Force Base.

I don't recommend closing the Appalachian campuses I question whether that OU is the right university to be running them when OSU or Kent St might be the more appropriate university. OSU has the overflow problem and Kent has branded itself as the ultimate Northeast Ohio public university.

OU Southern doesn't have anywhere else to go than OU because of location an Lancaster is a component of the Central Ohio backyard strategy to go along with Pickerington Center and the Dublin medical school.

Again as you pointed OSU is such a hot school of choice (though I fail to understand how a degree from there is any better than other universities in the system in 90% of the majors) they might as well be filling the branch campuses more efficiently with stronger demand.


Iím sorry ClubHyatt, I must have missed the post where I singled you out 🤦🏼‍♂️ Or even mentioned you or your post in that comment.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 2,458

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/21/2020 11:00:53 AM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.
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Club Hyatt
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,041

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/21/2020 7:50:55 PM 
SBH wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.


Finance out more debt. OSU has debt in the billions.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt-ohio-public-uni... /


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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SBH
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Post Count: 2,458

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/22/2020 1:49:17 PM 
What kind of logic is that? I trust you don't run a business.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,560

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/22/2020 10:32:35 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
SBH wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.


Finance out more debt. OSU has debt in the billions.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt-ohio-public-uni... /


That article is 4 years old and at the enrollement peak for many. Letís see how this debt looks in 18-24 months. Seen projections of OHIO being $200m short in 2 years.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 451

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/23/2020 9:16:50 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
SBH wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.


Finance out more debt. OSU has debt in the billions.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt-ohio-public-uni... /


That article is 4 years old and at the enrollement peak for many. Letís see how this debt looks in 18-24 months. Seen projections of OHIO being $200m short in 2 years.


I think overall debt is a number that needs to be put into context. If Google owed 400M, it would amount to couch cushion change. For the Trump Organization, it threatens the existence of the business.

To get an accurate measure of a school's debt, I think you have to look at the debt number in the context of things like annual budget, operating surplus/deficit and maybe (I'm not sure) endowment along with intangibles like demand for the schools project.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/23/2020 10:02:31 AM 
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
SBH wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.


Finance out more debt. OSU has debt in the billions.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt-ohio-public-uni... /


That article is 4 years old and at the enrollement peak for many. Letís see how this debt looks in 18-24 months. Seen projections of OHIO being $200m short in 2 years.


I think overall debt is a number that needs to be put into context. If Google owed 400M, it would amount to couch cushion change. For the Trump Organization, it threatens the existence of the business.

To get an accurate measure of a school's debt, I think you have to look at the debt number in the context of things like annual budget, operating surplus/deficit and maybe (I'm not sure) endowment along with intangibles like demand for the schools project.


Exactly, and when you look at the debt and the declining enrolment with projected enrolment decline, it does NOT take an economist to figure out that we, like others are in trouble.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,175

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  Message Not Read  RE: PA state colleges to merge
   Posted: 10/23/2020 11:45:02 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
SBH wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Akron should be fine once it downsizes enrollment.



How does that work? They are hundreds of millions in debt, their rainy day fund is almost exhausted, and every drop in enrollment makes matters worse.


Finance out more debt. OSU has debt in the billions.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/debt-ohio-public-uni... /


That article is 4 years old and at the enrollement peak for many. Letís see how this debt looks in 18-24 months. Seen projections of OHIO being $200m short in 2 years.


I think overall debt is a number that needs to be put into context. If Google owed 400M, it would amount to couch cushion change. For the Trump Organization, it threatens the existence of the business.

To get an accurate measure of a school's debt, I think you have to look at the debt number in the context of things like annual budget, operating surplus/deficit and maybe (I'm not sure) endowment along with intangibles like demand for the schools project.


Exactly, and when you look at the debt and the declining enrolment with projected enrolment decline, it does NOT take an economist to figure out that we, like others are in trouble.


And don't forget the elephant in the room - physical plant neglect - often referred to as "defered maintenance."
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