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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  100K bonus

Topic:  100K bonus
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,164

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  Message Not Read  100K bonus
   Posted: 9/20/2020 6:09:44 PM 
Optics are horrible regardless of the contract.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/top-ohio-universit...
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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,353

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/20/2020 9:43:23 PM 
The time to have complained about this was back in 2017, when it was signed. I guess they should have paid her an extra $33k a year instead, and people would be happier.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Buckeye to Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 9/10/2013
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/21/2020 10:44:57 AM 
Can't wait to see the future of academia. Got a hunch a baseball bat is about to be taken to the pay structure and the works
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Deciduous Forest Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 3,712

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/21/2020 12:42:52 PM 
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.
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The Optimist
General User



Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: Akron (sleeper agent)
Post Count: 4,854

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/21/2020 12:48:30 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation.


There is nothing "capitalist" about education being subsidized by taxpayers.

The true "rampant capitalists" are cheering on for-profit universities...


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,719

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/21/2020 1:55:38 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation.


There is nothing "capitalist" about education being subsidized by taxpayers.

The true "rampant capitalists" are cheering on for-profit universities...


Unless you think of that taxpayer "subsidy" as an investment that ultimately creates economic value. I mean, clearly that's one of the outcomes of the public school system, right? That its graduates are then better suited to create economic value?

Private companies invest capital in exchange for long-term gains all the time. Why is it capitalism when the money invested comes from a bank, but socialism when the money comes from tax-payers? The gains, in this case, are reaped by the market as a whole, not the state.

Last Edited: 9/21/2020 1:58:49 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,353

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/21/2020 9:44:30 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.

Last Edited: 9/21/2020 9:45:46 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,719

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 9:12:23 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


I'm with you on this.

Also think, given where the University is currently, having a very capable finance team is essential. And to compete for talent in the finance space, you have to pay.
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.
General User

Member Since: 2/3/2005
Post Count: 2,565

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 5:40:34 PM 
I bet a lot of us have received scheduled raises during this pandemic. We aren’t monsters.

It looks bad, though.
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,164

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 8:04:59 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,353

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 8:27:47 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.


They only comparison between the University and private business that I'm drawing is that both can sign legally binding contracts, and that's what this was. As for the question of why it was signed, obviously I have no idea. Should they have just paid her an extra $33,000 a year? Probably.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,541

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 9:00:10 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


I'm with you on this.

Also think, given where the University is currently, having a very capable finance team is essential. And to compete for talent in the finance space, you have to pay.


Agree to an extent! Can the financial team actually solve problems to benefit the university and its constituents or find away to manage the status quo of the upper end bloat?
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,541

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 9:01:56 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.
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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,353

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/22/2020 11:16:28 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.

I guess that gets to what rubs me the wrong way. Why is this being called a bonus, anyway? A bonus, to me at least, implies some sort of additional pay that is a discretionary payment. From the article, this isn't a discretionary payment, but a contractually agreed to payment. If I hire a contractor to paint my house, and agree to give him $2000 up front, and $8000 when the job is completed, is the $8000 a "bonus", or just the final payment on the contract?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Post Count: 2,128

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 12:26:41 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,541

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 1:10:10 AM 
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).


For the record, my PERSONAL opinion is, the money is rightfully hers and she should not feel bad or guilted about taking it, she rightfully earned it. But the entire purpose of the situation just looks poorly on the University side.
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,541

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 1:10:33 AM 
L.C. wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.

I guess that gets to what rubs me the wrong way. Why is this being called a bonus, anyway? A bonus, to me at least, implies some sort of additional pay that is a discretionary payment. From the article, this isn't a discretionary payment, but a contractually agreed to payment. If I hire a contractor to paint my house, and agree to give him $2000 up front, and $8000 when the job is completed, is the $8000 a "bonus", or just the final payment on the contract?


Do not disagree
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mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Post Count: 2,128

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 7:00:02 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).


For the record, my PERSONAL opinion is, the money is rightfully hers and she should not feel bad or guilted about taking it, she rightfully earned it. But the entire purpose of the situation just looks poorly on the University side.


Fair enough! That is hard to disagree with!
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The Optimist
General User



Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: Akron (sleeper agent)
Post Count: 4,854

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 8:32:34 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation.


There is nothing "capitalist" about education being subsidized by taxpayers.

The true "rampant capitalists" are cheering on for-profit universities...


Unless you think of that taxpayer "subsidy" as an investment that ultimately creates economic value. I mean, clearly that's one of the outcomes of the public school system, right? That its graduates are then better suited to create economic value?

Private companies invest capital in exchange for long-term gains all the time. Why is it capitalism when the money invested comes from a bank, but socialism when the money comes from tax-payers? The gains, in this case, are reaped by the market as a whole, not the state.


The market has a choice. Taxpayers are not allowed to opt-out.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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The Optimist
General User



Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: Akron (sleeper agent)
Post Count: 4,854

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 8:35:38 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).


For the record, my PERSONAL opinion is, the money is rightfully hers and she should not feel bad or guilted about taking it, she rightfully earned it. But the entire purpose of the situation just looks poorly on the University side.


Disagree. My PERSONAL opinion is that this old hag isn’t a good person. She’s knowingly screwing over these kids. These administrators are not good people.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Deciduous Forest Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 3,712

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 9:20:17 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).


For the record, my PERSONAL opinion is, the money is rightfully hers and she should not feel bad or guilted about taking it, she rightfully earned it. But the entire purpose of the situation just looks poorly on the University side.


But how does it look compared to what other universities are doing?

As for whether a bonus is deserved, that could be debated all day and is certainly a subjective topic. I dont disagree for one second that OHIO has to pay that money and honor the contract. There are some on this board who would complain about it either way
In my humble opinion, however, no one "deserves" a 100k bonus if anyone is getting laid off for financial reasons.

Last Edited: 9/23/2020 9:21:00 AM by Deciduous Forest Cat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,719

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 10:32:39 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
For those rampant capitalists among you, congrats on your beloved OHIO being run like a corporation. Lay people off to meet short term financial targets, get a bonus you don't deserve.

In all seriousness, this disgusts me that this happens, but it's hardly unique to alma mater and I'm certain not even unique within academia.

However, if we were the type of place that did not honor contractual payments, we would have a tough time competing against other institutions for faculty.

Will pandemic clauses be included in all such future contracts at Ohio? Sure, if everyone else is doing it.

I'm just curious, but in what way did this person not deserve it? Did they fail to follow the terms of the agreement? This does not appear to be a discretionary bonus, but rather a balloon payment on a long term pay contract.

As I said, if you don't think that the University should be offering long term pay contracts, complain when the pay contracts are being negotiated and signed, not when the the time to pay on the contract rolls around. There is no evidence presented that was not a legally binding contract, nor that the terms were not fulfilled. Thus, if the University failed to make the required payment, then Ohio would indeed become known as the "type of place that did not honor contractual payments", and furthermore, there would probably be a lawsuit, and the University would pay anyway.


No debate that she was owed the money. That's not the issue. The issues are 1) why was this contract arrangement offered in the first place? Bonuses have been a bone of contention here for years. 2) With the dearth of press here in Athens, there is no one available to examine every contract every year. To say you should have complained back then just isn't realistic.3) This is a tax payer funded institution which is much different that a private entity. You just can't compare the two.



A bonus for a bonus sake could be seen as bad business. A bonus for actual performance is totally different. And a bonus for just keeping your job, well, now that’s just something totally different.


I read it not as a bonus for keeping your job, but a bonus for not leaving (for greener pastures?) when there was a university leadership change (i think it was a Nellis’s coming in, but it could have been one of the other executives, too tired to go back to the original article and check). It was a “hey, please don’t leave us in the lurch by leaving in the next X years? If you’re still here at the end of that period, we’ll pay you a bonus that is Y% of your salary over that time period”.

I say she should take the money and not blush at it! My employer suspended its (modest to begin with) 401k match on July first, and i am FURIOUS about it (and they owe me a heck of a lot less than $100,000).


For the record, my PERSONAL opinion is, the money is rightfully hers and she should not feel bad or guilted about taking it, she rightfully earned it. But the entire purpose of the situation just looks poorly on the University side.


But how does it look compared to what other universities are doing?

As for whether a bonus is deserved, that could be debated all day and is certainly a subjective topic. I dont disagree for one second that OHIO has to pay that money and honor the contract. There are some on this board who would complain about it either way
In my humble opinion, however, no one "deserves" a 100k bonus if anyone is getting laid off for financial reasons.


I don't see how we have enough context from our vantage point to know with any degree of certainty. We don't know what she's accomplished in the role, the scope of it, or what the market would pay her otherwise.

The optics are poor from a timing standpoint, but a whole bunch of the people complaining about this 100k are over on the football board insisting we spend several hundred thousand dollars on testing in order to play football. In other words, it's not about fiscal responsibility. It's more a reflection of one's perception of administrators.

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Kinggeorge4
General User



Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Guysville, OH
Post Count: 779

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 2:30:04 PM 
One of the problems some are having with this bonus is that we've had layoffs, paycuts and her area has been one of the more bloated areas. Put it all together and it looks bad. I'm not saying she didn't earn it, timing is terrible.


GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,353

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/23/2020 8:11:09 PM 
Kinggeorge4 wrote:
One of the problems some are having with this bonus is that we've had layoffs, paycuts and her area has been one of the more bloated areas. Put it all together and it looks bad. I'm not saying she didn't earn it, timing is terrible.

As I said above, the entire problem comes when this is called a bonus. Language matters. A bonus is "something in addition to what is expected or strictly due". This was not a bonus because it was not discretionary, it was something that was expected and strictly due. When they call it a bonus, it sounds bad, because it gives a wrong impression. I think the "optics" would have been better if, rather than saying they gave this person a bonus, they said they "made the required balloon payment" to this employee, and the description would not only have sounded better, it would have been more accurate.

Did the University get a good deal, or a bad deal? I have no idea. All I know is that they got the deal they negotiated.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,164

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: 100K bonus
   Posted: 9/30/2020 9:09:25 AM 
Three things to read:

https://www.athensnews.com/opinion/letters/former-interim...

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ohio-university-pr...

And the best one perhaps:

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ohio-universitys-d...
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