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Topic:  RE: The budget and faculty unrest

Topic:  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/25/2019 11:11:57 PM 
JSF wrote:
There's a ton of grift in the college game. I've been complaining about this for a while. We need great teachers, not more administrators. Not sure how we fix this.

I'd rather the faculty union focus on that and not athletic spending. They're getting distracted by their own shinies; I suspect they're scared of taking on the administration.


Exactly, yes, there are 3-4 athletic people making good money. But Athletics is a pimple on a pigs butt in this issue. Yes, Athletics has lots of titles, but money and staffing did not come with those titles.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/26/2019 8:57:45 AM 
Looks like there is no budget crisis.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/11/ohio-fun-fa...
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/26/2019 10:25:44 AM 
JSF wrote:
There's a ton of grift in the college game. I've been complaining about this for a while. We need great teachers, not more administrators. Not sure how we fix this.

I'd rather the faculty union focus on that and not athletic spending. They're getting distracted by their own shinies; I suspect they're scared of taking on the administration.


Athletics is the easy target, because Athletics cannot fire the professors or retaliate against their jobs. The bloated administration on top of the hill can.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/27/2019 2:17:34 PM 
President's email:

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/11/information-about-ohio-...
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/27/2019 2:23:08 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
President's email:

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/11/information-about-ohio-...


Interesting read.

Funny how he still hasn't found the time to say anything about the suspensions of fraternities and the 110.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/27/2019 5:30:10 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
President's email:

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/11/information-about-ohio-...


Interesting read.

Funny how he still hasn't found the time to say anything about the suspensions of fraternities and the 110.



Boom!

And interesting about the spin claiming”misinformation”. Becoming commonplace to call things leaders do not agree with “fake”.

Last Edited: 11/27/2019 5:31:37 PM by BillyTheCat

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/27/2019 10:27:34 PM 
I dont think this Fun Facts "organization" was just spontaneously started by students. This was put together by AAUP.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 7:59:04 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
President's email:

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/11/information-about-ohio-...


Interesting read.

Funny how he still hasn't found the time to say anything about the suspensions of fraternities and the 110.



Boom!

And interesting about the spin claiming”misinformation”. Becoming commonplace to call things leaders do not agree with “fake”.


Let it go already.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 10:03:22 AM 
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.

Last Edited: 11/28/2019 10:29:31 AM by OUPride

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 12:47:57 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 12:54:52 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.


Agreed . . . first step, make Akron the urban campus of KSU.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 12:56:47 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.


Consolidation of a couple of the four year campuses along with community colleges and branch campuses should certainly be part of the restructuring. I would just like to see Ohio fill its enrollment shortfall with some 26 to 28 ACT kids from OSU and its branch campuses than with some 20 ACT kids from Akron or WSU. The former greatly helps our regional and national reputation while the latter actually drags us down in the quest to get warm bodies enrolled.
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 6:16:04 PM 
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.


Consolidation of a couple of the four year campuses along with community colleges and branch campuses should certainly be part of the restructuring. I would just like to see Ohio fill its enrollment shortfall with some 26 to 28 ACT kids from OSU and its branch campuses than with some 20 ACT kids from Akron or WSU. The former greatly helps our regional and national reputation while the latter actually drags us down in the quest to get warm bodies enrolled.


This cracks me up and reminds me of the periodic polls about Congress. In excess of 75% continually say Congress is a mess. When asked about their congressman, in excess of 75% say he doing a great job. What eveidence can you present that OU isn't one of the schools that should be consolidated other than being the only school in SE Ohio?

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/28/2019 9:57:13 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.


Consolidation of a couple of the four year campuses along with community colleges and branch campuses should certainly be part of the restructuring. I would just like to see Ohio fill its enrollment shortfall with some 26 to 28 ACT kids from OSU and its branch campuses than with some 20 ACT kids from Akron or WSU. The former greatly helps our regional and national reputation while the latter actually drags us down in the quest to get warm bodies enrolled.


This cracks me up and reminds me of the periodic polls about Congress. In excess of 75% continually say Congress is a mess. When asked about their congressman, in excess of 75% say he doing a great job. What eveidence can you present that OU isn't one of the schools that should be consolidated other than being the only school in SE Ohio?



+1

Not to mention the strict socialistic overtones of taking from one school to give to another.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/29/2019 9:25:58 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
I dont think this Fun Facts "organization" was just spontaneously started by students. This was put together by AAUP.


I wouldn't go quite that far but one of the leaders is the son of two of the more outspoken faculty on this issue.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/29/2019 8:07:18 PM 
16 of the top 30 paid folks at OU do not have an academic title and of the 14 that do, the president included, probably don't teach a class.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/30/2019 1:25:12 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
16 of the top 30 paid folks at OU do not have an academic title and of the 14 that do, the president included, probably don't teach a class.


BINGO! And add those salaries up
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/30/2019 9:28:07 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Quote:
We are, however, in a critical moment that requires action. Over the last three years, Ohio University has seen a steady decline in overall enrollment. One driver of the decrease is smaller incoming freshman classes. In addition, graduating record-sized senior classes, increasing our four-year and three-year graduation rates, and growing participation in College Credit Plus among Ohio high schoolers means many students are leaving the University faster. These are good metrics for student success but have decreased our revenue because enrollment is the largest source of operational revenue for most institutions of higher education, including Ohio University. Another factor in our declining revenue is a residual of our prior budget model —responsibility centered management or RCM — and its highly de-centralization approach, which resulted in assumed enrollment growth in some colleges' programs that, unfortunately, never materialized.


I've said it before. Now is the time to restructure the system and make a deal with OSU. Give them their officially recognized "flagship" title, a separate funding model and some form of autonomy from the rest of the system in exchange for limiting the size of their freshman classes to 6K. Assuming the culling comes from in-state applicants, every year that would flush out over a thousand well qualified kids into the system who would gladly be welcomed at Ohio, UC, Kent and (though their hubris would never allow them to admit it) Fiami. OSU gets some things they want, and the rest of the system gets something they need.



Or we could just do what is really needed and consolidate campuses, close some schools, at the elementary, secondary and higher ed.


Consolidation of a couple of the four year campuses along with community colleges and branch campuses should certainly be part of the restructuring. I would just like to see Ohio fill its enrollment shortfall with some 26 to 28 ACT kids from OSU and its branch campuses than with some 20 ACT kids from Akron or WSU. The former greatly helps our regional and national reputation while the latter actually drags us down in the quest to get warm bodies enrolled.


This cracks me up and reminds me of the periodic polls about Congress. In excess of 75% continually say Congress is a mess. When asked about their congressman, in excess of 75% say he doing a great job. What eveidence can you present that OU isn't one of the schools that should be consolidated other than being the only school in SE Ohio?



+1

Not to mention the strict socialistic overtones of taking from one school to give to another.


I'll answer both of the above questions.

First, I don't think Ohio is in any jeopardy of being consolidated. It is facing some serious challenges, but it's nowhere near the basket case in terms of enrollment trends and finances that Akron, Toledo or WSU are. Add to that, its its history as the state's public university, then as one of the "four corner" schools and the fact that there isn't another 4 year campus nearby, and Ohio is and should be safe.

As for the socialistic comment, put down the Ayn Rand nonsense. First of all, a public university system is largely socialized in the first place and secondly attempting to manage it properly (including setting enrollment caps at its various campuses isn't the end of FREEDOM!. It's smart public policy. OSU already rejects more applicants than it accepts, so we are taking a number of students every year who would have preferred to be in Columbus. Cut OSU's freshmen classes by a thousand, and you just change the degree of things. And as I've made it clear, this isn't some forced government mandate on OSU (which would never happen in any event) but a negotiation in which they get many of the things that were stripped from them in the 60s. They win; the rest of the system wins.

Or Ohio could refuse to think outside of the box and hope for the best, and maybe 15 years down the road we are one of those schools on the chopping block.

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 11/30/2019 10:44:12 AM 
Just came back from a family Thanksgiving gathering east of Ohio. When the conversation drifted to Ohio and the number of higher education institutions, many were naturally stunned. Those in the know were mainly asking how the state can afford all of this, and also how can so many private institutions survive? After I explained the historical backdrop of the Northwest Territories, I delved into the backdrop of the kind of discussions we have on this very thread.

Change is coming to higher education and believe me the next severe economic downturn (which hopefully won't occur for 15 or 20 years) will see massive changes to higher ed, but also the sports programs associated with it. Honestly, do you really think in a boom economy the powers the be in Columbus will tell people in Youngstown and Akron, your school and economic bread & butter is no more? Akron and Youngstown could just as easily turn around and say the same about Shawnee State, Wright State, Cleveland State, Columbus State etc. There will be higher education institutions on the state chopping block, but not until the next big economic downturn and then watch the dominoes fall, both in public and private institutions. It won't stop there, on a national scale the NCAA will certainly not be he same when the day occurs.

I would imagine by 2050 many technical, engineering type programs will go toward a European direction; 2 year college classes and the most promising candidates hired by firms who will continue to train and apprentice them as their skills allow. Gone will be the days when kids get degrees in academic disciplines that employers consider under or unemployable. Student debt and practical economic matters will see to that.

Last Edited: 11/30/2019 11:04:21 AM by cbus cat fan

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 12/5/2019 6:01:34 AM 
Quote:
IN OTHER NEWS arising from the documents released Wednesday, OU’s Athletics Department was one of the various administrative departments that provided a plan on how it could reduce its budget by 5 percent and 10 percent.

It showed that with direct total expenses of $23,395,395 in fiscal year 2019, those cost reduction targets would be $1.169 million (5 percent) and $2.34 million (10 percent). That’s in addition to about $677,000 in cuts over the last three years.

Much of those cuts under discussion would come from already-planned reductions in debt and expenses. However, the remaining cuts would need to come from “reductions in administrative services,” reductions in marketing and promotions, and “imposing stricter travel restrictions and per-diem limits” while delaying replacement of athletic equipment.

“Identifying and eliminating these operating expenses from Athletics presents some harsh challenges,” the memo from the Athletics Department reads. In reality, any analysis of athletics operations when compared to peer institutions in the MAC shows that athletics at Ohio operate in a fiscally prudent and efficient manner. There simply is very little discretionary spending remaining in the context of supporting a broad-based NCAA Division I athletic program of 16 sports.”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-planning-docs-l...


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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 12/5/2019 6:29:28 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:

I would imagine by 2050 many technical, engineering type programs will go toward a European direction; 2 year college classes and the most promising candidates hired by firms who will continue to train and apprentice them as their skills allow. Gone will be the days when kids get degrees in academic disciplines that employers consider under or unemployable. Student debt and practical economic matters will see to that.


I doubt this as fortune 500 and larger hiring firms don't do their own product development as much as acquire smaller companies that do it. Investment banks an consulting firms continue to recruit liberal arts majors from top universities over specialized business majors. There is also the law school route and the commissioned officer route. Very few liberal arts majors end up as career students/baristas. Some will give it 5 years and then retrain into a different field. I'm reviewing a resume of a guy who is 34, started in liberal arts, back to school for an MBA and back yet again for cybersecurity management. All that retraining he probably had to pay for himself.


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The budget and faculty unrest
   Posted: 12/5/2019 3:34:05 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:

I would imagine by 2050 many technical, engineering type programs will go toward a European direction; 2 year college classes and the most promising candidates hired by firms who will continue to train and apprentice them as their skills allow. Gone will be the days when kids get degrees in academic disciplines that employers consider under or unemployable. Student debt and practical economic matters will see to that.


I doubt this as fortune 500 and larger hiring firms don't do their own product development as much as acquire smaller companies that do it. Investment banks an consulting firms continue to recruit liberal arts majors from top universities over specialized business majors. There is also the law school route and the commissioned officer route. Very few liberal arts majors end up as career students/baristas. Some will give it 5 years and then retrain into a different field. I'm reviewing a resume of a guy who is 34, started in liberal arts, back to school for an MBA and back yet again for cybersecurity management. All that retraining he probably had to pay for himself.


Therein lies the problem. All of that retraining etc doesn't come cheap. I am sure I am not the only one who knows people who have student loans they claim will take years to pay off. I know a couple of neighborhood parents who say they won't be done paying off their loans until their kids finish high school. Yikes!

This is why the current model is unsustainable. It will all change during the next big economic downturn. My 2050 hypothesis is pretty conservative, it could happen sooner.
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