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Topic:  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Topic:  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:03:23 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
After all, when pressed, nobody could really explain what impact this would have on frat members beyond some potential lost deposits for Homecoming, and alums coming back this weekend.

It just feels like the rational option to me, even if it is unpopular.


I did answer this by pointing out that any fraternity member living in a fraternity house who is a junior or senior, will need to find new housing. As I'm sure you know, that's not an easy thing to do in Athens. And it's certainly more disruptive than "lost deposits for Homecoming," which I know you enjoy dismissing.


Oh, I see. I didn't realize that was in relation to this.

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:05:32 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
I don't think there's anywhere else to go until or unless we get more info.



I 100% agree with this. In fact, part of what re-initiated this conversation after the previous time we reached this conclusion is that you and a few others went somewhere else. Namely, you reached the conclusion that the lack of information suggests a nefarious plot on the part of the University.

My point's been that we just don't know, but based on what little we do know, this is kind of all we could have expected.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:08:53 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.


I believe that applies only to sophomores, for some, unknown reason.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:19:19 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.


I believe that applies only to sophomores, for some, unknown reason.


I think only sophomores live in the frat houses. That's how I remember it, at least.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:25:45 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.


I believe that applies only to sophomores, for some, unknown reason.


I think only sophomores live in the frat houses. That's how I remember it, at least.


Depends on the frat,or at least it did.

When I was at O.U., Freshman Actives weren't allowed to live in frat houses.
You had to be a Sophomore.

My room mate was a Beta,had another friend who was a Delta.

They both lived in their houses till they graduated.






Last Edited: 10/11/2019 2:26:15 PM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:37:32 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.


I believe that applies only to sophomores, for some, unknown reason.


I think only sophomores live in the frat houses. That's how I remember it, at least.


Depends on the frat,or at least it did.

When I was at O.U., Freshman Actives weren't allowed to live in frat houses.
You had to be a Sophomore.

My room mate was a Beta,had another friend who was a Delta.

They both lived in their houses till they graduated.



Interesting. I recall somebody trying to sell me on rushing my freshman year, and part of the pitch was that the only sophomores allowed to live off campus were those living in fraternity houses. The way they pitched it was that no other sophomores had houses they could throw parties in, and that was part of the appeal. My recollection is that only sophomores lived in the houses during my days, but there may have been exceptions.

Either way, I'm sure the reference in the letter to Sophomores living in frat houses being able to continue living there without interruption isn't intended to apply only to sophomores, but rather, was an attempt to explain that living situations won't be disrupted. I can't think of any logical reason why any juniors or seniors would be held to a different standard, unless the idea is that they're eligible to live off campus and therefore can find new housing.

But if that were the thought process, you'd think there are some empty rooms at the Convo or Bromley the sophomores could be forced into, too. No way housing capacity is at 100%, right? Enrollment's in decline, after all. So if they wanted to relocate them so, presumably they could and would.

Last Edited: 10/11/2019 2:38:48 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:42:12 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

If I recall, the University announced that fraternity members living in fraternity houses would be allowed to continue doing so. I think that was in the initial story that broke.


I believe that applies only to sophomores, for some, unknown reason.


I think only sophomores live in the frat houses. That's how I remember it, at least.


Depends on the frat,or at least it did.

When I was at O.U., Freshman Actives weren't allowed to live in frat houses.
You had to be a Sophomore.

My room mate was a Beta,had another friend who was a Delta.

They both lived in their houses till they graduated.



Interesting. I recall somebody trying to sell me on rushing my freshman year, and part of the pitch was that the only sophomores allowed to live off campus were those living in fraternity houses. The way they pitched it was that no other sophomores had houses they could throw parties in, and that was part of the appeal. My recollection is that only sophomores lived in the houses during my days, but there may have been exceptions.

Either way, I'm sure the reference in the letter to Sophomores living in frat houses being able to continue living there without interruption isn't intended to apply only to sophomores, but rather, was an attempt to explain that living situations won't be disrupted. I can't think of any logical reason why any juniors or seniors would be held to a different standard, unless the idea is that they're eligible to live off campus and therefore can find new housing.

But if that were the thought process, you'd think there are some empty rooms at the Convo or Bromley the sophomores could be forced into, too. No way housing capacity is at 100%, right? Enrollment's in decline, after all. So if they wanted to relocate them so, presumably they could and would.


You're 100% correct.
When I was at O.U. Sophomores, had to live in a dorm and could only go off campus to a frat house.
So that was big selling point for frats.

Some frats would allow sophomore pledges to move in for fall quarter,while they finished up their pledge period.

I read it as sophomores still being allowed to live in frat houses and not be forced back into dorms.





Last Edited: 10/11/2019 2:49:27 PM by rpbobcat

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:48:07 PM 
Sophomores were allowed to live in fraternity houses. That was the only way to not live in the dorms your sophomore year unless you commuted. You may be thinking that it was only or mostly sophomores who wanted to live in the house. Most of those students who lived in the chapter houses their sophomore years pursued houses or apartments their junior years.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:54:21 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Sophomores were allowed to live in fraternity houses. That was the only way to not live in the dorms your sophomore year unless you commuted. You may be thinking that it was only or mostly sophomores who wanted to live in the house. Most of those students who lived in the chapter houses their sophomore years pursued houses or apartments their junior years.


Don't know when you were at O.U.

I was there in the mid 70's.

Most of the guys I knew in frats and virtually all of the girls in sororities stayed in their houses.

A lot of that may have been to a lack of off campus housing.

Most of the off campus housing was a ways from campus.
You had to have car.

Plus, for most of friends in the frats,living in the house was a lot more convenient for parties and going up town.

Getting to class was never a concern.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 2:55:43 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

My question is, why not shut the system down last year after the death. Obvious problem if there is a death! Shut it down, give training, make sure all is up and up, stress the seriousness of doing things a certain way and the ramifications. The issue that looks bad here is the tremendous rush of complaints within a week against various organizations. Like in the past 11 months they've had zero complaints and now they are literally falling out of trees on the college green like leaves in the fall.


My guess? After the death, the University tried their damndest to figure out if the death was an isolated incident or indicative of a larger cultural issue. They gave the fraternities the benefit of the doubt and tried to hold Sig Ep up as an example.

Colin Wiant died in November. The investigation into his death and the role Sig Ep played didn't wrap up and reach a conclusion until April. As a result, this is the first rush season since.

I would be absolutely shocked if, in the wake of that, the University didn't make it very clear the Greek community as a whole that adhering to certain standards was an expectation, and that they'd be under the microscope.

And now, half way through the first rush since, 9 Frats, 3 Sororities, the 110, and a Business Fraternity have new allegations against them. And as a result, the University had no choice but to conclude this is a systemic issue and shut things down.

I guess what I don't get is why so many people feel like there's some clear statute of limitations here. Like somehow the investigation into a death being over for a whole 5 months now means it's old news and the University can't take action.

I'm saying the same things over and over, but there was increased scrutiny as a direct result of somebody being literally hazed to death. That increased scrutiny led to "complaints falling out of trees like leaves on college green in the fall."

Your stance is, I guess, that the administration should ignore all of those complaints because dude died 11 months ago and everybody should have turned the page? Or that it's all a grand conspiracy against the fraternities? Or that the allegations aren't true?

And my point is just that it doesn't matter at all what the allegations are or if they turn out to be true. A death warrants drastic measures, and the risk calculus here is very easy. Let's say a student died in a hazing incident two weeks ago. And it comes out after the fact that the University had received complaints about 9 different Fraternities. What then? Two deaths in a year would be disastrous for the University, they'd be open to civil liability, and Greek like would end forever in Athens.

This path is the prudent one for literally everybody involved, people here are just so intent on vainly hugging their own victimhood that they can't see it.


Do not believe anyone is saying there is any statute of limitations on anything, or that the death is not a problem. The problem is, you donít wait 11 months. This volume of complaints just do not suddenly appear. There was obviously an issue last November. As I stated earlier, that was the time to shut everything down, spend effort on education and training. Be proactive, what is presently occurring is reactive.
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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 3:43:03 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.


Eat shit dumbass, get your facts right. Suspend the Marching 110 and the football team since guys get suspended for dumb stuff they do and the coach gets a DUi.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 6:21:27 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
shabamon wrote:
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.


Eat shit dumbass, get your facts right. Suspend the Marching 110 and the football team since guys get suspended for dumb stuff they do and the coach gets a DUi.


...anyone want to tell him?


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 8:29:26 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

My question is, why not shut the system down last year after the death. Obvious problem if there is a death! Shut it down, give training, make sure all is up and up, stress the seriousness of doing things a certain way and the ramifications. The issue that looks bad here is the tremendous rush of complaints within a week against various organizations. Like in the past 11 months they've had zero complaints and now they are literally falling out of trees on the college green like leaves in the fall.


My guess? After the death, the University tried their damndest to figure out if the death was an isolated incident or indicative of a larger cultural issue. They gave the fraternities the benefit of the doubt and tried to hold Sig Ep up as an example.

Colin Wiant died in November. The investigation into his death and the role Sig Ep played didn't wrap up and reach a conclusion until April. As a result, this is the first rush season since.



Careful... Sig Ep might send you a cease and desist for mixing their name up with Sig Pi


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 8:29:47 PM 
JSF wrote:
PhiTau74 wrote:
shabamon wrote:
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.


Eat shit dumbass, get your facts right. Suspend the Marching 110 and the football team since guys get suspended for dumb stuff they do and the coach gets a DUi.


...anyone want to tell him?


Frank was roofied!


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/11/2019 9:40:02 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
shabamon wrote:
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.


Eat shit dumbass, get your facts right. Suspend the Marching 110 and the football team since guys get suspended for dumb stuff they do and the coach gets a DUi.


Ok.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/13/2019 10:20:30 AM 
Front page of today's Sunday Dispatch:

https://www.dispatch.com
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/14/2019 8:36:33 AM 
Is it true the 110 did not play during the parade? Heard that's what happened, but that may be incorrect. I heard the band marched to a cadence but did not play. Can anyone confirm?
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/14/2019 8:47:48 AM 
Not true - both 110 and alumni band played.
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/14/2019 10:52:10 AM 
Witnessed both the 110 and the Alumni band play and dance
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/14/2019 11:28:08 AM 
I thought they were silly back in the 70's and I haven't changed my mind. There were plenty of things to do on campus and uptown not to need ready made friends. I doubt this will be the end of them. Remember when one uptown bar took one for the team and had to shut down because of "underage drinking"? They all took their turn at some point.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/15/2019 7:31:03 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Is it true the 110 did not play during the parade? Heard that's what happened, but that may be incorrect. I heard the band marched to a cadence but did not play. Can anyone confirm?


SBH and mf279801 have given factual information, however, there may be a "rest of the story".

At the review stand at the end of the parade where the Alumni 110 ride drag there possibly was a bit of a silent protest.

The alumni 110 finished Long Train Runnin and then reformed into their previous marching lines. Because they had been there a few minutes playing songs, the other parade participants were long gone. I was standing on Union and could see around the corner on University Terrace and there were no remnants.

At that point the base drum would have been given a signal to pound a few times and get the band moving off BUT there was a significant delay with the band standing silently at attention. They stood very stoically and observers would have been hard pressed to find any member not quiet and at attention. I am poor at estimating time, others thought as long as five minutes standing at attention--I think it was less. Then the bass drum sounded and away they went.

That may or may not have been between the signaler and the bass drum as my daughter said nothing was organized that she had heard about when the members were waiting to step off at the start of the parade.

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/16/2019 8:30:10 AM 
Thanks for the info. Maybe that's what my "mole" had witnessed.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/16/2019 9:07:28 AM 
It was quite long - maybe 3.5 minutes. But from where I stood (at the college gate), I thought I heard a member of the band addressing the VIP stand. Couldn't hear what was said, but might have been related to the controversy. Nellis was paying attention.




Last Edited: 10/16/2019 9:34:10 AM by SBH

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/16/2019 9:17:53 AM 
Here is the rest of the story. As the alumni band stood silent and at attention, there was a visable uneasy silence. I was standing directly across from Jenny Hall Jones and Nellis. Both were very uncomfortable and Nellis looked straight ahead and not at the band member who would be speaking. A marching alumni band member who was to the right of the side door of the old Baker Center turned slightly to his right and addressed the crowd standing on the west side of College Street. We all thought it was some sort of protest but as soon as the band passed and the parade ended, I headed across the street and talked with those who were closest to the "event." As it turned out, the alumni band member gave a tribute to the two young men who had been killed in a tragic car wreck 20 years ago and to whom Saturday's halftime show was dedicated.

Last Edited: 10/16/2019 9:51:58 AM by Alan Swank

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/17/2019 6:50:04 AM 
From today's (10/17) The Post:

http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/what-is-hazi...


http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/sorority-and...

Last Edited: 10/17/2019 6:53:06 AM by rpbobcat

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