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Topic:  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely

Topic:  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/6/2019 5:23:38 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Or wrong.


Yep, reasonable people can disagree. But I do think they're wrong in this case. For the reasons I stated.




To help my Volunteer friend and me a bit, share with us a bit of information like when you graduated and in what field. Not speaking for him, but I'm guessing he is having as difficult a time as I am figuring out where you're coming from and your passion for your position. Thanks.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/6/2019 6:10:50 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Or wrong.


Yep, reasonable people can disagree. But I do think they're wrong in this case. For the reasons I stated.




To help my Volunteer friend and me a bit, share with us a bit of information like when you graduated and in what field. Not speaking for him, but I'm guessing he is having as difficult a time as I am figuring out where you're coming from and your passion for your position. Thanks.


I'm honestly not at all sure what's confusing about my opinion. It's super simple and not going to be helped along by the knowledge that I graduated in '05 and studied English. Here, I'll break it down:

Nobody here knows what's contained in these accusations. They could be very bad, they could all end up being disproven. That's true regardless of where one stands here.

But somebody died last year as a direct result of fraternity hazing. And therefore, any accusations made about fraternities hazing students has to be treated with the utmost caution. And 7 of 15 frats has accusations against them. That's a lot.

Further, while I understand your concern for the 8 fraternities that weren't accused of any wrongdoing, I also don't really care. Why? Because ultimately this "drastic" step that people here have called a "disgrace" and prompted others to agree with that sentiment "+ infinity" isn't actually all that drastic at all. It's simply a question or risk assessment. The risk to the University (and the Greek community, too) is far too great should there be another serious hazing incident.

A fraternity killed somebody, man. Sorry it made somebody's homecoming experience 10% worse and all, but again, how about some perspective here about how "drastic" this step really is.

And you know how I know this step isn't too drastic? Because none of the people here -- even those who think this is a disgrace, and you, who can't even wrap your head around how anybody could disagree with you, can so much as explain as why it's drastic. All you've done is post a frowny face about alums at homecoming. As far as I can tell, the outcome of this drastic decision is that the CI was more crowded on Saturday. The horror.

Oh, and by the way, your Volunteer friend kicked off this thread by saying "throw the book at all of them and and let God sort them out." So I'm not sure he's super confused about my stance, given that his stance is more extreme than mine.

Last Edited: 10/6/2019 6:12:17 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/6/2019 6:20:52 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Or wrong.


Yep, reasonable people can disagree. But I do think they're wrong in this case. For the reasons I stated.




To help my Volunteer friend and me a bit, share with us a bit of information like when you graduated and in what field. Not speaking for him, but I'm guessing he is having as difficult a time as I am figuring out where you're coming from and your passion for your position. Thanks.








Oh, and by the way, your Volunteer friend kicked off this thread by saying "throw the book at all of them and and let God sort them out." So I'm not sure he's super confused about my stance, given that his stance is more extreme than mine.



I would think an English major would comprehend sarcasm. As the alumni advisor for a fraternity, I'm fully aware of the seriousness of hazing. We did not tolerate it in my years at Muskingum which came just a few years after a student died during pledging at a neighboring fraternity. That death like the death of the young man at OU last year was a true tragedy. Parents don't expect to bury their children. However, Draconian measures taken that punish the innocent masses may make those in postitions of authority feel they are doing their job but actually achieves nothing for the greater good. As a former teacher I learned a long time ago that the punishment needs to fit the crime and the punishment is meant only for the offender. OU's heavy handiedness in dealing with this "avalanche" of charges seems to be a bit over the top.

Last Edited: 10/6/2019 6:28:43 PM by Alan Swank

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/6/2019 6:36:11 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Or wrong.


Yep, reasonable people can disagree. But I do think they're wrong in this case. For the reasons I stated.




To help my Volunteer friend and me a bit, share with us a bit of information like when you graduated and in what field. Not speaking for him, but I'm guessing he is having as difficult a time as I am figuring out where you're coming from and your passion for your position. Thanks.








Oh, and by the way, your Volunteer friend kicked off this thread by saying "throw the book at all of them and and let God sort them out." So I'm not sure he's super confused about my stance, given that his stance is more extreme than mine.



I would think an English major would comprehend sarcasm. As the alumni advisor for a fraternity, I'm fully aware of the seriousness of hazing. We did not tolerate it in my years at Muskingum which came just a few years after a student died during pledging at a neighboring fraternity. That death like the death of the young man at OU last year was a true tragedy. Parents don't expect to bury their children. However, Draconian measures taken that punish the innocent masses may make those in postitions of authority feel they are doing their job but actually achieves nothing for the greater good. As a former teacher I learned a long time ago that the punishment needs to fit the crime and the punishment is meant only for the offender. OU's heavy handiedness in dealing with this "avalanche" of charges seems to be a bit over the top.




Can you explain what's so drastic about this punishment? How is this impacting the lives of fraternity members and alumni? It's really not clear to me what's so drastic about a temporary suspension, given the circumstances. So far, I know alumni at homecoming are frowny face.

What else should I be so concerned about that it should sway me over to your side from the "hazing deaths are bad, we should be careful" side of things?

Last Edited: 10/6/2019 6:39:04 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/6/2019 7:54:05 PM 
Alan will answer on his own, but for me it's the idea that OU is ascribing to "guilt by association." Their entire case is clouded by the secrecy around these latest 'accusations.' If the accusations are so serious as to warrant this reaction, so be it, but the only way that will be accepted by the masses is if the accusations are either made public or better explained. For now, OU's position is "trust me."



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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 9:59:31 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan will answer on his own, but for me it's the idea that OU is ascribing to "guilt by association." Their entire case is clouded by the secrecy around these latest 'accusations.' If the accusations are so serious as to warrant this reaction, so be it, but the only way that will be accepted by the masses is if the accusations are either made public or better explained. For now, OU's position is "trust me."


It would be much worse to release unproven allegations publicly though, right? In fact, it would likely open OU up to legal liability should they ultimately not find the some or all of the accusations credible. I'm not really sure how you can dock them points for "secrecy" when they have no choice but not to release the specifics.

As for the guilt by association point, I'm sensitive to that up to a point. But as I've stated, I don't actually think the "punishment" here is much of a punishment. So if some fraternities who have done nothing wrong end up temporarily suspended unfairly, that seems a reasonable price to pay given the circumstances.

And while OU's position here is "trust us" the alternative would be for us to put our trust in the fraternities themselves. Is there any argument at all that doing so isn't a far riskier proposition?

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation. The University taking this step rules out the worst possible outcome, which would be another serious incident during rush season. It does so in favor of ensuring what I see as the least bad of the bad options -- that some of the upstanding frats who have done nothing wrong will be swept up in all of this unfairly.

Last Edited: 10/7/2019 10:05:53 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 10:46:31 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan will answer on his own, but for me it's the idea that OU is ascribing to "guilt by association." Their entire case is clouded by the secrecy around these latest 'accusations.' If the accusations are so serious as to warrant this reaction, so be it, but the only way that will be accepted by the masses is if the accusations are either made public or better explained. For now, OU's position is "trust me."


It would be much worse to release unproven allegations publicly though, right? In fact, it would likely open OU up to legal liability should they ultimately not find the some or all of the accusations credible. I'm not really sure how you can dock them points for "secrecy" when they have no choice but not to release the specifics.

As for the guilt by association point, I'm sensitive to that up to a point. But as I've stated, I don't actually think the "punishment" here is much of a punishment. So if some fraternities who have done nothing wrong end up temporarily suspended unfairly, that seems a reasonable price to pay given the circumstances.

And while OU's position here is "trust us" the alternative would be for us to put our trust in the fraternities themselves. Is there any argument at all that doing so isn't a far riskier proposition?

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation. The University taking this step rules out the worst possible outcome, which would be another serious incident during rush season. It does so in favor of ensuring what I see as the least bad of the bad options -- that some of the upstanding frats who have done nothing wrong will be swept up in all of this unfairly.


Then I hope that the university is prepared to compensate the fraternities that had off campus formals scheduled this past weekend for lost deposits and the like. I also hope that the university is prepared to make the same financial contributions that the fraternities would have made through their philanthropic activities scheduled for the coming weeks.

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 10:50:26 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation.


That’s what bothers me about this decision.

I’m not convinced JHJ or the administration members that made this decision are acting in the best interest of students involved in this community. It seems to me like they’re just trying to avoid civil lawsuits.

Whatever your feelings about Greek Life, there’s no debating it is a major part of the college experience for a large number of Ohio University students, past and present. There’s a larger discussion that needs to be had here rather than just “limiting risk.”

Last Edited: 10/7/2019 10:51:59 AM by The Optimist


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 11:09:49 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation.


That’s what bothers me about this decision.

I’m not convinced JHJ or the administration members that made this decision are acting in the best interest of students involved in this community. It seems to me like they’re just trying to avoid civil lawsuits.

Whatever your feelings about Greek Life, there’s no debating it is a major part of the college experience for a large number of Ohio University students, past and present. There’s a larger discussion that needs to be had here rather than just “limiting risk.”


That's fair. But is anybody convinced that students in Fraternities are acting in the best interest of the community? A member dying as a direct result of hazing would certainly suggest otherwise, and ultimately there's still a very real, open question that needs to be answered. Namely, are fraternities acting responsibly? The evidence we're aware of to date suggests the answer's likely no.

And if that's the case, what choice does the university have but to ask to mitigate risk? There are valid criticisms of how the University has handled this, but is there any argument that the greek community itself doesn't bear the bulk of the blame here?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 11:12:18 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan will answer on his own, but for me it's the idea that OU is ascribing to "guilt by association." Their entire case is clouded by the secrecy around these latest 'accusations.' If the accusations are so serious as to warrant this reaction, so be it, but the only way that will be accepted by the masses is if the accusations are either made public or better explained. For now, OU's position is "trust me."


It would be much worse to release unproven allegations publicly though, right? In fact, it would likely open OU up to legal liability should they ultimately not find the some or all of the accusations credible. I'm not really sure how you can dock them points for "secrecy" when they have no choice but not to release the specifics.

As for the guilt by association point, I'm sensitive to that up to a point. But as I've stated, I don't actually think the "punishment" here is much of a punishment. So if some fraternities who have done nothing wrong end up temporarily suspended unfairly, that seems a reasonable price to pay given the circumstances.

And while OU's position here is "trust us" the alternative would be for us to put our trust in the fraternities themselves. Is there any argument at all that doing so isn't a far riskier proposition?

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation. The University taking this step rules out the worst possible outcome, which would be another serious incident during rush season. It does so in favor of ensuring what I see as the least bad of the bad options -- that some of the upstanding frats who have done nothing wrong will be swept up in all of this unfairly.


Then I hope that the university is prepared to compensate the fraternities that had off campus formals scheduled this past weekend for lost deposits and the like. I also hope that the university is prepared to make the same financial contributions that the fraternities would have made through their philanthropic activities scheduled for the coming weeks.



Yeah, sure. They can pay back deposits if no wrongdoing is found. Seems like a reasonable request.

But that these are the biggest concerns you can muster does also sort of underscore my point about just how severe these "drastic" punishments happen to be.

I mean, we've gone from "this is a disgrace for the University" and calling for the Administrations heads to "I sure hope the Frats get their deposits back." Contextualizes things a bit, no?
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 11:26:32 AM 
Not really. You can't put yourself into the position of "arbiter" as to what is and what isn't damaging.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 11:35:51 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Not really. You can't put yourself into the position of "arbiter" as to what is and what isn't damaging.


Correction: I can, and do, for the purposes of an internet message board that exists for people to share their opinions on things as they relate to Ohio University. Everybody participating in this conversation has put themselves in the position of "arbiter" of what is and isn't damaging. You have, Alan has, The Optimist has. And they have every right to do so.

I mean, how is my opinion that the 'punishment' thus far isn't particularly drastic any different than others stating the opinion that the punishment is so drastic that it's a blight on the good name of Ohio University? Both opinions position themselves as "arbiter" of what is an isn't damaging, we just disagree in our conclusion about what is/isn't damaging.








Last Edited: 10/7/2019 11:50:48 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 1:13:51 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan will answer on his own, but for me it's the idea that OU is ascribing to "guilt by association." Their entire case is clouded by the secrecy around these latest 'accusations.' If the accusations are so serious as to warrant this reaction, so be it, but the only way that will be accepted by the masses is if the accusations are either made public or better explained. For now, OU's position is "trust me."


It would be much worse to release unproven allegations publicly though, right? In fact, it would likely open OU up to legal liability should they ultimately not find the some or all of the accusations credible. I'm not really sure how you can dock them points for "secrecy" when they have no choice but not to release the specifics.

As for the guilt by association point, I'm sensitive to that up to a point. But as I've stated, I don't actually think the "punishment" here is much of a punishment. So if some fraternities who have done nothing wrong end up temporarily suspended unfairly, that seems a reasonable price to pay given the circumstances.

And while OU's position here is "trust us" the alternative would be for us to put our trust in the fraternities themselves. Is there any argument at all that doing so isn't a far riskier proposition?

Which, really, is a solid summary of my point here. It's simply about risk mitigation. The University taking this step rules out the worst possible outcome, which would be another serious incident during rush season. It does so in favor of ensuring what I see as the least bad of the bad options -- that some of the upstanding frats who have done nothing wrong will be swept up in all of this unfairly.


Then I hope that the university is prepared to compensate the fraternities that had off campus formals scheduled this past weekend for lost deposits and the like. I also hope that the university is prepared to make the same financial contributions that the fraternities would have made through their philanthropic activities scheduled for the coming weeks.



LOL....do not hold your breath! I know a local vendor that has a bill outstanding for services rendered to the University for 4 months. There will be no consideration of paying a late fee or penalty because the University does not do that. However, be 4 months late paying the University and see what happens.
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/7/2019 7:46:06 PM 
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 8:37:56 AM 
So I guess Homecoming is a concern of the university. In today's Dispatch:

"The news comes as alumni descend on campus for homecoing week."

"As for homecoming activities the university is allowing, events must be approved by the university, also on a case-by-case basis."

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191007/ohio-university-in...

And from the ANews article:

"According to Leatherwood, "We understand that Homecoming is an important time for alumni of sorority and fraternity life as they return to campus. As such, the alumni-only events will be permitted on a case-by-case basis. Questions related to alumni only events should be directed to the Dean of Students Office at deanstu@ohio.edu ."

Last Edited: 10/8/2019 8:55:57 AM by Alan Swank

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 8:48:04 AM 
Accusations have still not been made public, and according the article linked above, the police have reviewed the accusations and found none of them to be criminal. So far, apparently, the accused have not been privy to any of this information. They don't know what they're being accused of but they are nonetheless, suspended, and required to comply with furnishing detailed information about members and pledges.

To say this is being poorly handled is a monumental understatement.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 8:53:19 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 9:19:33 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."


I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 9:24:32 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."


I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?



That used to be judiciaries but not sure who does it now. That code has become unbelievably Draconian over the years. We used to put a couple pledges in a car, drive them out of town a few miles, and drop them off. Under the code today, that would be considered hazing. That's a far cry from alcohol related activities for which I have no use for. It's just plain dangerous and illegal if the pledge is under 21.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 9:45:42 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:

I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?


That used to be judiciaries but not sure who does it now. That code has become unbelievably Draconian over the years. We used to put a couple pledges in a car, drive them out of town a few miles, and drop them off. Under the code today, that would be considered hazing. That's a far cry from alcohol related activities for which I have no use for. It's just plain dangerous and illegal if the pledge is under 21.


I posted earlier what my room mate went through when he pledged Beta Theta Pi.

Wonder how O.U. would handle this:

Freshman year,one kid on our dorm floor pledged the Betas winter/spring quarter.

Several others from our floor,had pledged the Betas in the fall,so they were "actives" when he pledged.

The kid was scared s _ _ _ less of getting a pimple.
I swear he owned stock in "Stridex".

Obviously everyone on our floor knew it.

So, when he pledged the Betas, every time he was in the house they made him eat chocolate.

Wonder if that's "hazing" ?




Last Edited: 10/8/2019 10:33:35 AM by rpbobcat

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 9:49:14 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."


I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?



That used to be judiciaries but not sure who does it now. That code has become unbelievably Draconian over the years. We used to put a couple pledges in a car, drive them out of town a few miles, and drop them off. Under the code today, that would be considered hazing. That's a far cry from alcohol related activities for which I have no use for. It's just plain dangerous and illegal if the pledge is under 21.



The drinking age of 21 is part of the problem here. Drinking related activities are inherently no more dangerous “if the pledge is under 21.” Hazing related activities involving drinking for 22 year olds can be just as dangerous as for 20 year olds.

If we’re going to crack down on hazing because it promotes drinking “in secrecy” which increases cases of alcohol positioning we’ve got to look at the drinking age in general because there are plenty of kids not in Greek Life contributing to underage drinking.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 9:53:47 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Accusations have still not been made public, and according the article linked above, the police have reviewed the accusations and found none of them to be criminal. So far, apparently, the accused have not been privy to any of this information. They don't know what they're being accused of but they are nonetheless, suspended, and required to comply with furnishing detailed information about members and pledges.

To say this is being poorly handled is a monumental understatement.


You've said this a few times. Don't you find the idea of making unproven allegations public problematic? Wouldn't it open the University up to potential liability? Feels like they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 10:03:10 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."


I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?



That used to be judiciaries but not sure who does it now. That code has become unbelievably Draconian over the years. We used to put a couple pledges in a car, drive them out of town a few miles, and drop them off. Under the code today, that would be considered hazing. That's a far cry from alcohol related activities for which I have no use for. It's just plain dangerous and illegal if the pledge is under 21.



Draconian, maybe. But another interesting questions is why would you do that? I mean, it's clearly hazing, though harmless enough. But what value does it add? And you can sort of understand how these things end up escalating and go from harmless to harmful, which makes building policy around hazing particularly difficult.

Last Edited: 10/8/2019 10:07:10 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 10:07:32 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Accusations have still not been made public, and according the article linked above, the police have reviewed the accusations and found none of them to be criminal. So far, apparently, the accused have not been privy to any of this information. They don't know what they're being accused of but they are nonetheless, suspended, and required to comply with furnishing detailed information about members and pledges.

To say this is being poorly handled is a monumental understatement.


You've said this a few times. Don't you find the idea of making unproven allegations public problematic? Wouldn't it open the University up to potential liability? Feels like they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.


The university is perfectly capable of providing information about the accusations, if not publicly, at least to the fraternities themselves. They can do so and still protect the identity of the accusers. There's a big gap between providing zero information, which is what they are doing, and providing categorical information.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
   Posted: 10/8/2019 10:21:44 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
We're now over 50% of frats with hazing accusations, and counting.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-releases-names-...


And according to OU, "The Ohio University Police Department has reviewed initial allegations of the eight organizations listed above, and so far, none of those have risen to the level of actionable criminal activity."


I understand the issue of a criminal act.

The question I have is, who determines if the alleged acts on the parts of the fraternities violated the students' Code of Conduct ?



That used to be judiciaries but not sure who does it now. That code has become unbelievably Draconian over the years. We used to put a couple pledges in a car, drive them out of town a few miles, and drop them off. Under the code today, that would be considered hazing. That's a far cry from alcohol related activities for which I have no use for. It's just plain dangerous and illegal if the pledge is under 21.



+1 How many students have not violated the code of conduct.
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