Welcome Guest!
Create an Account
login email:
password:
site searchwhere to watchcontact usabout usadvertise with ushelp
Message Board

BobcatAttack.com Message Board
General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
Author
Message
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,549

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 8:33:28 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

This is now the most sensitive, snowflakiest thing I've ever read. I didn't think somebody would come into thread, insist they're the real victim, and preemptively accuse people of branding him a racist all in one post. That's just world class use of the victim card and outrage culture. Never seen anybody operate on this level.


Quote:
...preemtively accuse people of branding him...


Quote:
him


Interesting how you assumed my gender.


This would actually be a pretty funny little piece of performance art if you were self-aware enough to see the irony of complaining about political correctness in this thread.

But you're not.

Back to Top
  
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,021

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 8:56:20 AM 
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?
Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 9:11:39 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.
Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 9:13:52 AM 
DelBobcat wrote:
I'm not saying it's not true, but it's more likely that your memory has changed the details of what really happened in those days. That's not a knock on you, it happens to all of us. The human memory is a funny thing and it is very capable of playing tricks on us all.


God, you're pretentious.

Back to Top
  
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,021

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 10:05:03 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.


So we could do the same thing by singing Kumbaya or What A Wonderful World. I'm not being flippant but why do we need this at a sporting event which is nothing more than entertainment?

Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 10:13:03 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.


So we could do the same thing by singing Kumbaya or What A Wonderful World. I'm not being flippant but why do we need this at a sporting event which is nothing more than entertainment?



What else is there that we all agree upon?
Kumbaya: Too religious
WWonderful World: Too Louis Armstrong
Back to Top
  
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,549

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 10:14:40 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.


If this is true -- and I think it is -- then why is somebody exercising his right to free speech during the anthem such a controversial thing to do? Isn't free speech an ideal we, as a nation, hold dear? Isn't the right to free speech common ground that we all agree on, and a goal we all aspire to achieve? Isn't freedom from oppression the same?


Last Edited: 9/26/2017 10:21:35 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

Back to Top
  
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,021

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 10:35:17 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.


Respectful questions - how does the anthem with it's racist third verse and the flag represent who we are as a nation? And if a flag represents who we are, what does that say about those who fly the Confederate flag or their respective state flag but not the American flag? Who are we as a nation? This is the type of civics discussion I hope they are having in schools all across America today.

Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 10:46:24 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


Respectful questions - how does the anthem with it's racist third verse and the flag represent who we are as a nation? And if a flag represents who we are, what does that say about those who fly the Confederate flag or their respective state flag but not the American flag? Who are we as a nation? This is the type of civics discussion I hope they are having in schools all across America today.



1. Is that third verse included in our version of the Anthem?
2. It says nothing about those who fly the confederate flag or their state flags.
3. We are a people who agree upon a set of ideals.

Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,694

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:00:47 AM 
And, yet, another point of view. Perhaps, the real problem is the National Anthem itself. Do we need a new, more inclusive song to represent our common national goals and aspirations? That Woodrow Wilson lead the charge to make the Star Spangled Banner our national anthem does make the song problematic. Here's a link to an interesting column from Ebony magazine about this issue. Aside from the gratuitous mention of "Juneteenth," I found it quite interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/y83rdkdr

[On Juneteenth: This is a celebration of the Emancipation Proclamation that has great relevance to Texas, but has gained popularity in recent years in other parts of the country. It has caused more than a little consternation in Ohio, because down in Gallia County we have the oldest continuous celebration of the EP. The first Gallia County celebration was on Sept. 22 1863 -- the first anniversary of the preliminary EP. The calls for celebrating Juneteenth as some kind of official holiday in Ohio got so strong that the Ohio General Assembly felt required to pass a law several years ago declaring September 22 as Emancipation Day in Ohio.]


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Back to Top
  
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,021

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:07:03 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:


Respectful questions - how does the anthem with it's racist third verse and the flag represent who we are as a nation? And if a flag represents who we are, what does that say about those who fly the Confederate flag or their respective state flag but not the American flag? Who are we as a nation? This is the type of civics discussion I hope they are having in schools all across America today.



1. Is that third verse included in our version of the Anthem?
2. It says nothing about those who fly the confederate flag or their state flags.
3. We are a people who agree upon a set of ideals.




I would beg to differ with you on point 3. We as a people in a collection of states, have never been in greater disagreement than we are today. Just read the platforms of both major political parties. Watch this video and see what your reaction is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Gx23vH0CE&feature=share
Back to Top
  
Recovering Journalist
General User

Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,549

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:20:38 AM 
This has been an interesting chat. I try to stay out of political discussions (though sometimes I can't resist) not because I don't see value in civil discourse, but because we are so unlikely to convince people to change, no matter the facts or the way we present them. This cartoon does a great job of explaining why that is:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,694

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:24:00 AM 

And, yet another point of view.  It appears my old buddy, Fred, was a lover of the Star Spangled Banner, as well as the flag and U.S. Armed Forces:

http://tinyurl.com/jt8fmew

Key Quote:

[Frederick] Douglass was known to frequently play “The Star-Spangled Banner” on his violin for his grandchildren in the years after the war. He said in an 1871 speech at Arlington National Cemetery that “if the star-spangled banner floats only over free American citizens in every quarter of the land, and our country has before it a long and glorious career of justice, liberty, and civilization, we are indebted to the unselfish devotion of the noble army.”

[My reference to Frederick Douglass as my "old buddy" is part of a family joke.  I've read so much about him, and visited so many historical spots related to him that my children have started to refer to him that way.]


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Back to Top
  
DelBobcat
General User



Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,135

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:39:38 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
I'm not saying it's not true, but it's more likely that your memory has changed the details of what really happened in those days. That's not a knock on you, it happens to all of us. The human memory is a funny thing and it is very capable of playing tricks on us all.


God, you're pretentious.



See this is the problem with having civil discourse with you. I brought up a scientific fact: Our memories play tricks on us and we often remember things differently than they happened, especially things that happened a long time ago. Your response to that is not to engage in a discussion about that fact and its relevance to this thread. No, your response is to call me pretentious.

I have had lots of disagreements with folks here. Many of them I respect and I value the perspective they bring to the table. All I get from you is name calling.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Back to Top
  
DelBobcat
General User



Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,135

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:50:28 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Ohio Cat Fan, first of all excellent post on your family's early backing of the Civil Rights Movement. It might surprise some to realize that one of the most conservative Republican congressman in the House of Representatives, Congressman Bill McCulloch of western Ohio supported the cause, and he wasn't alone alone. In many cases they were miles ahead of many Democrats in that era.


The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a bipartisan act. It was largely supported by both Republicans and Democrats from the North, while gaining zero votes from southern Republicans and only a handful from southern Democrats.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Back to Top
  
akroncat
General User

Member Since: 7/23/2010
Location: Akron, OH
Post Count: 172

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 11:56:11 AM 
If you questioned my memory like you just did to OhioCatFan, I would have said much nastier things than Robert Fox did. Just because he is conservative, I don't think you have any right to question his childhood memories.
Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,694

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:01:26 PM 

DelBobcat wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Ohio Cat Fan, first of all excellent post on your family's early backing of the Civil Rights Movement. It might surprise some to realize that one of the most conservative Republican congressman in the House of Representatives, Congressman Bill McCulloch of western Ohio supported the cause, and he wasn't alone alone. In many cases they were miles ahead of many Democrats in that era.


The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a bipartisan act. It was largely supported by both Republicans and Democrats from the North, while gaining zero votes from southern Republicans and only a handful from southern Democrats.
 

Here's a little more detailed analysis of the vote.  It is from a partisian persepective, but the facts presented are generally accurate:

http://tinyurl.com/ybpojxfh

Here's a key quote:

Goldwater was one of just six Senate Republicans to vote against the bill in 1964, while 21 Senate Democrats opposed it. It passed by an overall vote of 73-27. In the House, 96 Democrats and 34 Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act, passing with an overall 290-130 vote. While most Democrats in both chambers voted for it, the bulk of the opposition still was from Democrats.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Back to Top
  
Kevin Finnegan
General User

Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 740

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:16:44 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?


To establish common ground, to raise the relevance of what we agree upon before we focus on our disagreements.

The anthem and flag represent who we are as a nation and what we strive to be. We should be able to find common ground with that. Even if we agree we have not reached that idea, we should agree that we want the same goals.


Respectful questions - how does the anthem with it's racist third verse and the flag represent who we are as a nation? And if a flag represents who we are, what does that say about those who fly the Confederate flag or their respective state flag but not the American flag? Who are we as a nation? This is the type of civics discussion I hope they are having in schools all across America today.



Thanks for taking me on a deep dive into the history of the poem by Mr. Key. I think a fantastic protest would be for a black musician or poet to recite the entire poem/song before a game. I think that would enlighten many to the truth behind the national anthem.

Mr. OCF, I'm guessing you've read "The Meaning of July Fourth for the Negro" by Frederick Douglass. I recently read it after hearing about it in a podcast (I believe 'Constitutional' by Lillian Cunningham, quite interesting on American history and the Constitution).

Mr. Douglass, in his speech, stated, "But such is not the state of the case (that he could celebrate July 4th). I say it with a sad sense of the disparity between us. I am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary! Your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings in which you, this day, rejoice, are not enjoyed in common. The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me. The sunlight that brought light and healing to you, has brought stripes and death to me. This Fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn."

I think that's interesting (as is the entire article, written at a time where I'm surprised his words didn't get him killed). I'm not claiming that today's black community is oppressed in a similar way, but their struggle has been far more pronounced than that of nearly every other group. To expect that everybody view this country the same way seems rather arrogant.

To assume that we have the anthem to validate our shared ideals is also interesting. What are those values? Did you know 40% of millenials in a poll want to limit offensive speech (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-mil... /)? MOre than a third of Americans support having a national religion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-sta... ). Less than half of Republicans believe in the importance of a free press (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/322065-p... ). And I'm pretty sure the debates of the last six months show the resistance to have the freedom to peaceably assemble, like to peaceably assemble on a football field. These are our First Amendment rights. If Americans cannot even agree on whether we should have these rights, the first ones designated by our great forefathers, then what are the shared values?

Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,694

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:22:41 PM 
finnOhio: That speech by Frederick Douglass was given in 1852. IT did express his feelings at the time. After the war, he generally expressed much more hopeful and inclusive sentiments, save for his statements against honoring those who had fought for bondage and against freedom (rebels).


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:23:18 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
If Americans cannot even agree on whether we should have these rights, the first ones designated by our great forefathers, then what are the shared values?



Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Back to Top
  
Kevin Finnegan
General User

Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 740

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:41:10 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
finnOhio: That speech by Frederick Douglass was given in 1852. IT did express his feelings at the time. After the war, he generally expressed much more hopeful and inclusive sentiments, save for his statements against honoring those who had fought for bondage and against freedom (rebels).


I agree, he did seem more hopeful after the war. And why shouldn't he? He fought and argued for the freedom from slavery and bondage. He saw the fruits of his labor in his lifetime. A couple of generations later, more rights needed to be fought for and argued for. A group saw those achieved as well. That helps us become a more-perfect union, but not necessarily a perfected one. If there are others that feel that through peaceably demonstrating and assembling, they can help continue to move us to that more-perfect union, I support their efforts. What I would love is to know how they could see that being accomplished. For Douglass, he saw development through bloodshed and war. Through Dr. King, he saw it through protests, legislative battles, and a fair share of bloodshed as well (including his own). What do the current protesters and demonstrators consider their goals? What would have them feel as though progress was being made? I think they felt the development of that in November of 2008, but it seems to have been lost. What, now, would have them see progress?
Back to Top
  
Kevin Finnegan
General User

Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 740

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 12:46:19 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
If Americans cannot even agree on whether we should have these rights, the first ones designated by our great forefathers, then what are the shared values?



Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


The same words that are in the Japanese Constitution? Or, do you mean the ones from Ho Chi Minh's Proclamation of Independence for Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Independenc... )?

These are not inherently American rights, they are basically the rights of a civilized nation anywhere on this planet. Look at how often these words are co-opted by many nations, including France, Canada, Germany. So what makes these the rights, or as you say, values, that should require standing for the national anthem of America?
Back to Top
  
Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 1:00:56 PM 
finnOhio wrote:



The same words that are in the Japanese Constitution? Or, do you mean the ones from Ho Chi Minh's Proclamation of Independence for Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Independenc... )?

These are not inherently American rights, they are basically the rights of a civilized nation anywhere on this planet. Look at how often these words are co-opted by many nations, including France, Canada, Germany. So what makes these the rights, or as you say, values, that should require standing for the national anthem of America?


Are you kidding me? So, in your mind, the USA is no different from France, Canada, Germany or Vietnam. Is that right?

Or do you believe that the USA was and is unique? That it emphasized the importance of liberty first, and that emphasis created a ground swell of people from all over the world migrating to America?

Back to Top
  
Ohio69
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 2,747

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 1:07:58 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
This has been an interesting chat. I try to stay out of political discussions (though sometimes I can't resist) not because I don't see value in civil discourse, but because we are so unlikely to convince people to change, no matter the facts or the way we present them. This cartoon does a great job of explaining why that is:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe



Bump.


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Back to Top
  
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,021

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 9/26/2017 1:36:59 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
finnOhio wrote:



The same words that are in the Japanese Constitution? Or, do you mean the ones from Ho Chi Minh's Proclamation of Independence for Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Independenc... )?

These are not inherently American rights, they are basically the rights of a civilized nation anywhere on this planet. Look at how often these words are co-opted by many nations, including France, Canada, Germany. So what makes these the rights, or as you say, values, that should require standing for the national anthem of America?


Are you kidding me? So, in your mind, the USA is no different from France, Canada, Germany or Vietnam. Is that right?

Or do you believe that the USA was and is unique? That it emphasized the importance of liberty first, and that emphasis created a ground swell of people from all over the world migrating to America?



In no way, shape or form did he say they are the same. Those were your words, not his. And if liberty is number one, then our constitution grants the liberty to each individual to speak his or her mind. In its most simple form, that's what these players are doing. And at the end of the day, the citizens of this country do not enjoy equal liberties. Shoot, the school board in your neighborhood of Knox County wanted/wants to eliminate protections for GLBT students and employees.
Back to Top
  
Showing Replies:  126 - 150  of 700 Posts
Jump to Page:  < Previous    1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28    Next >
View Other 'General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events' Topics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             



Copyright ©2020 BobcatAttack.com. All rights reserved.  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Use
Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties