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Topic:  Never Forget

Topic:  Never Forget
Author
Message
rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  Never Forget
   Posted: 5/4/2016 7:16:18 AM 
May 4,1970 Kent State
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/4/2016 8:45:18 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
May 4,1970 Kent State



+1
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/4/2016 11:19:43 AM 
On this day, I'm always reminded of this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvg4n8Txgdc

Many reported at the time that the riots at Ohio University were worse than those at KSU. We are fortunate that there weren't deaths here, too. This was a horrible time in U.S. history, but one that should not be forgotten, less we repeat our errors.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,023

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/4/2016 4:09:19 PM 
That was a crazy day for those of us living close by. My dad managed a Kroger store on North Chestnut Street in Ravenna, the county seat, and the location of Robinson Memorial Hospital where the injured were taken. He was too young for WW II and medically excluded from Korea, but based on what he had heard from his older brother who was in one of the first waves of troops on Omaha Beach, this was as close to war as he could imagine. They boarded up all of the windows in his store, placed machine guns on the roofs of buildings and basically shut the town down. He said he'd never forget the endless scream of sirens traveling east from Kent to Ravenna. We were in afternoon classes at Goodyear Junior High when the word of what happened began filtering in. Just two years earlier, we had "riots" at East High and Goodyear in the aftermath of Martin Luther King's assassination. Some will say that the 60's ended on May 4th, 1970.
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Joe McKinley
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Member Since: 11/15/2004
Post Count: 483

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/4/2016 8:17:07 PM 


May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.
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oldkatz
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Post Count: 1,421

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 9:13:22 AM 
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.


An tragic episode that too many people forget as well.

"All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 9:34:06 AM 
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.



+1
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 9:38:16 AM 
oldkatz wrote:
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.


An tragic episode that too many people forget as well.



Not hard to figure out why this one has been largely ignored in the public spectrum.
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,504

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 11:03:06 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
oldkatz wrote:
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.


An tragic episode that too many people forget as well.



Not hard to figure out why this one has been largely ignored in the public spectrum.


If I'm interpreting your post correctly,the only reason for the lack of attention the JSU shooting gets is because the JSU students were black and the KSU students white.

There's no question that's part of it,but I think it goes deeper.

I was in high school when these incidents occurred.

I remember KSU pretty well.My memory of JSU was a bit sketchy, so I looked it up in an old encyclopedia I have at home.It described it pretty much the same as I remembered it being reported at the time and what I researched on-line this morning.

KSU involved the military,shooting civilians,who were portrayed as practicing their First Amendment rights.Also some of the victims were nowhere near or involved with the antiwar protest.
There was also no evidence that the Guardsmen lives' were in jeopardy.

JSU involved police responding to riots, with the rioters,mostly JSU students,throwing rocks and other projectiles and starting fires.

There doesn't seem to any question the police overreacted,but they were also facing a different type of "crowd" then the Guard at KSU.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,485

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  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 12:28:54 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
oldkatz wrote:
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.


An tragic episode that too many people forget as well.



Not hard to figure out why this one has been largely ignored in the public spectrum.


If I'm interpreting your post correctly,the only reason for the lack of attention the JSU shooting gets is because the JSU students were black and the KSU students white.

There's no question that's part of it,but I think it goes deeper.

I was in high school when these incidents occurred.

I remember KSU pretty well.My memory of JSU was a bit sketchy, so I looked it up in an old encyclopedia I have at home.It described it pretty much the same as I remembered it being reported at the time and what I researched on-line this morning.

KSU involved the military,shooting civilians,who were portrayed as practicing their First Amendment rights.Also some of the victims were nowhere near or involved with the antiwar protest.
There was also no evidence that the Guardsmen lives' were in jeopardy.

JSU involved police responding to riots, with the rioters,mostly JSU students,throwing rocks and other projectiles and starting fires.

There doesn't seem to any question the police overreacted,but they were also facing a different type of "crowd" then the Guard at KSU.







On may 3rd the Student protesters burned the ROTC armory and all that was in it to the ground, and when the fire trucks responded they attacked the fire trucks and hoses with knives. So don't tell me that Kent did not also contain violence, and that the events of the 3rd and Gov. Rhodes statements the next day did not fuel those events.
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,023

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 1:07:36 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
oldkatz wrote:
Joe McKinley wrote:
May 15, 1970. Jackson State University.


An tragic episode that too many people forget as well.



Not hard to figure out why this one has been largely ignored in the public spectrum.


If I'm interpreting your post correctly,the only reason for the lack of attention the JSU shooting gets is because the JSU students were black and the KSU students white.

There's no question that's part of it,but I think it goes deeper.

I was in high school when these incidents occurred.

I remember KSU pretty well.My memory of JSU was a bit sketchy, so I looked it up in an old encyclopedia I have at home.It described it pretty much the same as I remembered it being reported at the time and what I researched on-line this morning.

KSU involved the military,shooting civilians,who were portrayed as practicing their First Amendment rights.Also some of the victims were nowhere near or involved with the antiwar protest.
There was also no evidence that the Guardsmen lives' were in jeopardy.

JSU involved police responding to riots, with the rioters,mostly JSU students,throwing rocks and other projectiles and starting fires.

There doesn't seem to any question the police overreacted,but they were also facing a different type of "crowd" then the Guard at KSU.







On may 3rd the Student protesters burned the ROTC armory and all that was in it to the ground, and when the fire trucks responded they attacked the fire trucks and hoses with knives. So don't tell me that Kent did not also contain violence, and that the events of the 3rd and Gov. Rhodes statements the next day did not fuel those events.


http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/killings-j...

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,485

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 2:06:29 PM 
Two paragraphs tell you all you need to know about why this one was never met with the public outcry of Kent State. 460 rounds fired and they would not send for an ambulance until they picked up all their shells, then denied being there? Yep, nothing to see hear folks move along!

"When the order to ceasefire was given, Phillip Lafayette Gibbs, 21, a junior pre-law major and father of an 18 month-old son, lay dead. Across the street, behind the line of police and highway patrolmen, James Earl Green, 17, was sprawled dead. Green, a senior at Jim Hill High School in Jackson, was walking home from work at a local grocery store when he stopped to watch the action. Twelve other Jackson State students were struck by gunfire. The five-story dormitory was riddled by gunfire. FBI investigators estimated that more than 460 rounds struck the building, shattering every window facing the street on each floor. Investigators counted at least 160 bullet holes in the outer walls of the stairwell alone bullet holes that can still be seen today.

The injured students, many of whom lay bleeding on the ground outside the dormitory, were transported to University Hospital within 20 minutes of the shooting. But the ambulances were not called until after the officers picked up their shell casings, a U. S. Senate probe conducted by Senators Walter Mondale and Birch Bayh later revealed. The police and state troopers left the campus shortly after the shooting and were replaced by National Guardsmen. After the incident, Jackson authorities denied that city police took part."
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,504

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/5/2016 9:35:10 PM 
The article that Allen posted was one of the things I researched today.

When I read it a few things stood out:

1.The site, which is not exactly unbiased, points out that there were contradictory reports of what happened.

2.There doesn't seem to any question that the police were dealing with a violent situation.

3.I don't know about Mississippi, but where I live in New Jersey, in 1970, police departments were still primarily using revolvers. Spent shells stayed in the weapon. When you reloaded, if "policing your brass" was a concern, you could just put the spent shells in a pocket.

4.Assuming at least some officers had automatic weapons, how do you find hundreds of spent shells, in the dark, with all kinds of debris around, in just a few minutes.
This is based on the fact that the article says the wounded were taken to hospitals within 20 minutes if the shootings.

5.Based on the web site's description of what happened and the fact that there was a Federal investigation, including the F.B.I. and Senate, why weren't there any charges in Federal Court for Violating Civil Rights ?

As I said before, there's no doubt that the police overreacted.
But I do think its unfair, based on the description of the events, to not put any responsibility for what happened on people who were rioting.

Last Edited: 5/6/2016 6:57:51 AM by rpbobcat
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Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Never Forget
   Posted: 5/6/2016 5:58:12 PM 
I hesitate to weigh in on this, as I don't have much info. But it is interesting to me in one of the JSU stories is a claim of 400+ bullet holes in the dormitory wall that included--bullet holes as well as shotgun pellet holes.

Not discounting what happened. Not taking a side. Just found that interesting.
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