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Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues

Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 6:48:36 AM 
gedunkman wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
RP,

I wonder if you and others who have defended this president have changed your mind yet? Does the fact that his personal lawyer arranged a payment for an abortion finally change your mind? Since it's so important to you I would imagine that you will be unable to cast a vote for Trump in 2020, right? Doesn't this have to be the straw that broke the camel's back? I'm sincerely curious, because I can't fathom a professed pro-life individual voting for this man now.


Can't speak for RP.

This is an old charge: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/12/1581746/-Trum...

Isn't Trump allowed to "evolve" his views over the years? Obama's views on same-sex marriage, as was pointed out in the now deleted thread, "evolved" between his first and second term. As president The Donald has done several things to reduce the number of abortions, showing that whatever he may have done earlier he's advancing a pro-life agenda now. Don't know about RP, but for me that's what's most important.



Del:
Nope,my back is just fine.

I also agree with gedunkman.

The President changed how he felt about abortion.

I don't have a problem with that.

Why ?

I did too.

I was in college when the Supreme Court passed Roe v Wade.

At that time we all thought it was great.

If you got a girl pregnant,there was a legal "out".

Nobody really thought about the fact that you were taking a life.
Only that it provided a way to get out of a mistake.

When we were first married my wife got pregnant.
It wasn't planned, and I wasn't ready for it.
She started bleeding and it didn't look good.
Then she miscarried and needed to have a "D and C".
At first there was relief.
Then I thought about being able to hear the baby's heart beat,then nothing.

That really brought home the fact that a "fetus" is a living human being.

That was my "evolution" to pro life.


Last Edited: 5/4/2018 7:03:19 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 930

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 8:39:34 AM 
Christians, both individually and as a movement, should really think long and hard about their unwavering support of Trump based on this notion of 'ends justifying the means.'

This sums it up better than I can: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-evange... /

Politics isn't the zero sum game many treat it as. We should fight things that are wrong always. People can believe all they want that Trump's better than Hillary, or that the Gorsich nomination makes all of this worth it, but the continued rationalization of Trump's many, many, many lies is destroying the Right's credibility. It's up to the Right to hold Trump to a standard they feel is fitting. They have, instead, bent over backwards to justify every lie, every sin, every scandal. Not to sound too ominous, but you're making your own beds on this one. You're gonna have to sleep in those bed for a long time. Is it really worth it?

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 8:47:24 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 10:27:48 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Christians, both individually and as a movement, should really think long and hard about their unwavering support of Trump based on this notion of 'ends justifying the means.'

This sums it up better than I can: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-evange... /

Politics isn't the zero sum game many treat it as. We should fight things that are wrong always. People can believe all they want that Trump's better than Hillary, or that the Gorsich nomination makes all of this worth it, but the continued rationalization of Trump's many, many, many lies is destroying the Right's credibility. It's up to the Right to hold Trump to a standard they feel is fitting. They have, instead, bent over backwards to justify every lie, every sin, every scandal. Not to sound too ominous, but you're making your own beds on this one. You're gonna have to sleep in those bed for a long time. Is it really worth it?



+1

And funny, many still want to talk about Hillary's "crimes", Bill's infidelity and at the same time ignore those issues in the current administration. Let's look at just the concept of fiscal austerity, where are all the cries about the growing deficit and debt? Now that the GOP is in control of all 3 branches, the amount of borrowing is skyrocketing, the debt is soaring in a time of a good economy and you couldn't find a Tea Party member or a fiscal conservative.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 11:36:06 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
gedunkman wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
RP,

I wonder if you and others who have defended this president have changed your mind yet? Does the fact that his personal lawyer arranged a payment for an abortion finally change your mind? Since it's so important to you I would imagine that you will be unable to cast a vote for Trump in 2020, right? Doesn't this have to be the straw that broke the camel's back? I'm sincerely curious, because I can't fathom a professed pro-life individual voting for this man now.


Can't speak for RP.

This is an old charge: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/12/1581746/-Trum...

Isn't Trump allowed to "evolve" his views over the years? Obama's views on same-sex marriage, as was pointed out in the now deleted thread, "evolved" between his first and second term. As president The Donald has done several things to reduce the number of abortions, showing that whatever he may have done earlier he's advancing a pro-life agenda now. Don't know about RP, but for me that's what's most important.



Del:
Nope,my back is just fine.

I also agree with gedunkman.

The President changed how he felt about abortion.

I don't have a problem with that.

Why ?

I did too.

I was in college when the Supreme Court passed Roe v Wade.

At that time we all thought it was great.

If you got a girl pregnant,there was a legal "out".

Nobody really thought about the fact that you were taking a life.
Only that it provided a way to get out of a mistake.

When we were first married my wife got pregnant.
It wasn't planned, and I wasn't ready for it.
She started bleeding and it didn't look good.
Then she miscarried and needed to have a "D and C".
At first there was relief.
Then I thought about being able to hear the baby's heart beat,then nothing.

That really brought home the fact that a "fetus" is a living human being.

That was my "evolution" to pro life.



The idea that the president changed his views is absurd. He spouted whatever he thought would get the evangelicals behind him. He doesn't give a shit about living humans, babies, fetuses or anyone but his own immediate gratification and covering his own arse. And everything he does is proof of that. The religious right is such a ridiculous excuse for a movement in this country. They have as much credibility as republicans who claim fiscal responsibility as "their" platform. Many Christians would elect Hitler so long as he came out as anti-choice. And I'm a Catholic and have no problem saying that. If you wish to submit me to the Pope for excommunication, go for it.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 11:40:19 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
gedunkman wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
RP,

I wonder if you and others who have defended this president have changed your mind yet? Does the fact that his personal lawyer arranged a payment for an abortion finally change your mind? Since it's so important to you I would imagine that you will be unable to cast a vote for Trump in 2020, right? Doesn't this have to be the straw that broke the camel's back? I'm sincerely curious, because I can't fathom a professed pro-life individual voting for this man now.


Can't speak for RP.

This is an old charge: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/12/1581746/-Trum...

Isn't Trump allowed to "evolve" his views over the years? Obama's views on same-sex marriage, as was pointed out in the now deleted thread, "evolved" between his first and second term. As president The Donald has done several things to reduce the number of abortions, showing that whatever he may have done earlier he's advancing a pro-life agenda now. Don't know about RP, but for me that's what's most important.



Del:
Nope,my back is just fine.

I also agree with gedunkman.

The President changed how he felt about abortion.

I don't have a problem with that.

Why ?

I did too.

I was in college when the Supreme Court passed Roe v Wade.

At that time we all thought it was great.

If you got a girl pregnant,there was a legal "out".

Nobody really thought about the fact that you were taking a life.
Only that it provided a way to get out of a mistake.

When we were first married my wife got pregnant.
It wasn't planned, and I wasn't ready for it.
She started bleeding and it didn't look good.
Then she miscarried and needed to have a "D and C".
At first there was relief.
Then I thought about being able to hear the baby's heart beat,then nothing.

That really brought home the fact that a "fetus" is a living human being.

That was my "evolution" to pro life.



The idea that the president changed his views is absurd. He spouted whatever he thought would get the evangelicals behind him. He doesn't give a shit about living humans, babies, fetuses or anyone but his own immediate gratification and covering his own arse. And everything he does is proof of that. The religious right is such a ridiculous excuse for a movement in this country. They have as much credibility as republicans who claim fiscal responsibility as "their" platform. Many Christians would elect Hitler so long as he came out as anti-choice. And I'm a Catholic and have no problem saying that. If you wish to submit me to the Pope for excommunication, go for it.



Don't worry about it, evangelicals turned on the Pope this week because he said something that was pro-gun control. Michael Flynn, Jr -- a guy who thinks there was a pedophile ring being run out of a pizza restaurant in DC -- tweeted that the Pope is an idiot and the right lapped it up.

https://twitter.com/mflynnJR/status/990668671755411459



Last Edited: 5/4/2018 11:55:26 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 12:01:22 PM 
Video 1:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/05/trump-stormy-da...

Video 2:

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/992412975511277568

Just lying to our faces. Excited to hear somebody here explain why this isn't a lie. Or why lying's okay. Or why this is fake news. Or whatever the excuse will be.

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 12:01:47 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 12:14:12 PM 
Oh, cool. Nevermind, Rudy Guiliani is going to issue a new statement explaining how he got confused and that Trump didn't know about the Daniels payments and the conversations which he recounted, and the Trump's reaction, which he quoted word for word -- didn't actually happen.

Just innocent people acting innocently.

The FBI is full of stormtroopers, the deep state's taking the President down, and all of these repeated lies are nothing compared to the fact that Mueller's team has some Democrats on it.

It'd be awesome if some folks on the right could start showing even the slightest bit of respect for our country instead of just tearing up about how much they love the flag when football players kneel quietly in front of it.

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 12:15:36 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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cc-cat
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Location: matthews, NC
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 2:09:55 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

That was my "evolution" to pro life.


And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 2:16:22 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

That was my "evolution" to pro life.


And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.


Boom. No abortion has ever been as offensive as a bunch of rich white men making reproductive decisions for women they have never met.

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 2:25:52 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

That was my "evolution" to pro life.


And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.


Boom. No abortion has ever been as offensive as a bunch of rich white men making reproductive decisions for women they have never met.



Agree - also never understood the argument to exclude rape or incest. If ones argument is the fetus is a human being, then the source of being is irrelevant. Unless one also feels the mother has the right to carry the child to term and then shoot it.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 3:29:00 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
[QUOTE=Deciduous Forest Cat] [QUOTE=cc-cat] [QUOTE=rpbobcat]
That was my "evolution" to pro life.

And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.

Boom. No abortion has ever been as offensive as a bunch of rich white men making reproductive decisions for women they have never met.


Agree - also never understood the argument to exclude rape or incest. If ones argument is the fetus is a human being, then the source of being is irrelevant. Unless one also feels the mother has the right to carry the child to term and then shoot it.


1.Their body,their business,their choice.
That would be fine,except,their choice also affects the life of the child they're carrying.

2.No abortion has ever been as offensive . . .
Tell that to the unborn child.
Have you ever seen how an abortion is done.

3.I'm pro life.
Call it a fetus,unborn child,whatever you want,abortion is taking a life.
The Supreme Court ruled that a woman has the right to take that life and that the unborn child has no rights.
That's the law.
But for those of us who believe in an after life,we have to answer to a higher authority then the Supreme Court.

4.I struggled for as long time on the issue of accepting an abortion in the case of rape and incest.
I still do.

5.As far as carrying a child to term,then shooting it.That's not much different then some of the late term abortion procedures.








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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 3:41:55 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

4.I struggled for as long time on the issue of accepting an abortion in the case of rape and incest.
I still do.

5.As far as carrying a child to term,then shooting it.That's not much different then some of the late term abortion procedures.


1/3 - leads to the discussion of when life begins - we can both bring up science to support our views.

4. respect your honesty and consistency.

5. or from having an abortion at 14 weeks in your view.

We differ. it is not that you are right, and I am wrong - nor vise-versa (and we can both bring supporting "evidence.". The first step is no hypocrisy e.g., no abortion except.... just as I do not endorse late term (except to save the mother's life - which always is a choice). Highly emotional decision, which I simply feel is the mother's choice - and not a joking matter.

If you know anyone that has made the choice to terminate a pregnancy then you know that it is an anguishing decision to make. Yes, we can all look up examples of someone that treats it with a more cavalier attitude, but that is such, such, the exception.

And I hold these views having gone through much of what you have. And am a Christian - raised catholic (though left that church for personal. and good reasons).

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 3:52:20 PM by cc-cat

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 3:50:25 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
[QUOTE=Deciduous Forest Cat] [QUOTE=cc-cat] [QUOTE=rpbobcat]
That was my "evolution" to pro life.

And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.

Boom. No abortion has ever been as offensive as a bunch of rich white men making reproductive decisions for women they have never met.


Agree - also never understood the argument to exclude rape or incest. If ones argument is the fetus is a human being, then the source of being is irrelevant. Unless one also feels the mother has the right to carry the child to term and then shoot it.


1.Their body,their business,their choice.
That would be fine,except,their choice also affects the life of the child they're carrying.

2.No abortion has ever been as offensive . . .
Tell that to the unborn child.
Have you ever seen how an abortion is done.

3.I'm pro life.
Call it a fetus,unborn child,whatever you want,abortion is taking a life.
The Supreme Court ruled that a woman has the right to take that life and that the unborn child has no rights.
That's the law.
But for those of us who believe in an after life,we have to answer to a higher authority then the Supreme Court.

4.I struggled for as long time on the issue of accepting an abortion in the case of rape and incest.
I still do.

5.As far as carrying a child to term,then shooting it.That's not much different then some of the late term abortion procedures.




RP, I guess I was wrong. I thought this might be the thing that got you to change your mind about Trump. It's not that he "evolved" on the issue of abortion (which is something I have done by the way, albeit in the opposite direction. I used to be very anti-choice having bought the arguments coming out of the Catholic church). It's that he literally paid a woman to have an abortion. Of course, people speculated before the election that he may have done such a thing but now we have proof that his lawyer made a payment and it is very likely that it was on the behalf of Trump. Do you really think he evolved? Do you really think he actually cares about abortion one way or the other? All context points to no, and I'm shocked you'd buy into it.

There's also a lot of misinformation out there about abortions.

Around the world, in countries where abortion is illegal, it remains a leading cause of maternal death. An estimated 68,000 women worldwide die each year from unsafe abortions.

About 88% of the women who obtain abortions are less than 13 weeks pregnant. Only 1.4 percent of abortions happen at or after the 21st week of pregnancy. The number of abortions have dropped over time and they have dropped fastest in states that have the LEAST restrictions on them. If you really want to see a drop in abortions it turns out that the best thing you can do is encourage access to contraception and to vote for Democrats:


https://qz.com/857273/the-sharpest-drops-in-abortion-rate... /


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 3:59:02 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
[QUOTE=Deciduous Forest Cat] [QUOTE=cc-cat] [QUOTE=rpbobcat]
That was my "evolution" to pro life.

And I respect that. You went from pro-choice to pro-no choice. You would choose for your spouse/significant other to not have an abortion. Others have the right to choose to have one. Their body. Their business. Their choice. Just as you have made a choice.

Boom. No abortion has ever been as offensive as a bunch of rich white men making reproductive decisions for women they have never met.


Agree - also never understood the argument to exclude rape or incest. If ones argument is the fetus is a human being, then the source of being is irrelevant. Unless one also feels the mother has the right to carry the child to term and then shoot it.


1.Their body,their business,their choice.
That would be fine,except,their choice also affects the life of the child they're carrying.

2.No abortion has ever been as offensive . . .
Tell that to the unborn child.
Have you ever seen how an abortion is done.

3.I'm pro life.
Call it a fetus,unborn child,whatever you want,abortion is taking a life.
The Supreme Court ruled that a woman has the right to take that life and that the unborn child has no rights.
That's the law.
But for those of us who believe in an after life,we have to answer to a higher authority then the Supreme Court.

4.I struggled for as long time on the issue of accepting an abortion in the case of rape and incest.
I still do.

5.As far as carrying a child to term,then shooting it.That's not much different then some of the late term abortion procedures.




RP, I guess I was wrong. I thought this might be the thing that got you to change your mind about Trump. It's not that he "evolved" on the issue of abortion (which is something I have done by the way, albeit in the opposite direction. I used to be very anti-choice having bought the arguments coming out of the Catholic church). It's that he literally paid a woman to have an abortion. Of course, people speculated before the election that he may have done such a thing but now we have proof that his lawyer made a payment and it is very likely that it was on the behalf of Trump. Do you really think he evolved? Do you really think he actually cares about abortion one way or the other? All context points to no, and I'm shocked you'd buy into it.

There's also a lot of misinformation out there about abortions.

Around the world, in countries where abortion is illegal, it remains a leading cause of maternal death. An estimated 68,000 women worldwide die each year from unsafe abortions.

About 88% of the women who obtain abortions are less than 13 weeks pregnant. Only 1.4 percent of abortions happen at or after the 21st week of pregnancy. The number of abortions have dropped over time and they have dropped fastest in states that have the LEAST restrictions on them. If you really want to see a drop in abortions it turns out that the best thing you can do is encourage access to contraception and to vote for Democrats:


https://qz.com/857273/the-sharpest-drops-in-abortion-rate... /


It also helps when women (these are also considered "people" in some circles) have access to good pre-natal care (this is also known as "healthcare" in some circles, and it's revolutionary. There are actually places on Earth where you don't have to be wealthy or employed by a megacorporation to access healthcare).

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 4:01:33 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 3:59:34 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
the best thing you can do is encourage access to contraception/


Amen Brother!!! How anyone stands up and says we should not teach sex education and provide simple and affordable access (and understanding) to contraception, yet rails against abortion is beyond me.

Agree DFC - perhaps we need a place that helps women (and men) achieve parenthood in a means that provides affordable and healthy care.

Last Edited: 5/4/2018 4:02:40 PM by cc-cat

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 4:02:19 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
the best thing you can do is encourage access to contraception/


Amen Brother!!! How anyone stands up and says we should not teach sex education and provide simple and affordable access (and understanding) to contraception, yet rails against abortion is beyond me.


This is a phenomenon known as "being the worst".

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 6:18:59 PM 
The fact that we even need to discuss this is sad, just say no and no education is a failure, it was in the 50ís it is today. And just because a public figure claims they are pro-life in front of the press and TV does not mean they are (1.2 million dollars shows us that), as well as countless stories of secret abortions by the mistresses of some of these clowns.
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Jeff Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 9:00:40 PM 
I think it's time for this thread to go to Siberia...


Jeff Johnson '67, Lake Frederick, Virginia
Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 9:42:37 PM 
Jeff Johnson wrote:
I think it's time for this thread to go to Siberia...


This IS Siberia!

(Brrrr)
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gedunkman
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/4/2018 11:17:45 PM 
Just curious how you folks would react to this question: When Obama said during his campaign for re-election that he was for traditional marriage and could not support same-sex marriage was he lying? Only a few short months later, after he was re-elected, he was singing a different tune. He said his position had evolved. How many believe he was telling the truth during the campaign. How about a show of hands.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/5/2018 12:04:16 AM 
No he was lying during the campaign. Typical politician. Says what is necessary to get elected. Anyone who thinks any of these folks is for the common person is an idiot. All they care about is getting elected/re-elected and their own self advancement (trump, Obama, Cruz, rubio pick any). I was in a meeting with a congressman a while back. He pointed to his lapel pin (every representative gets a pin). Said it was the most expensive piece of jewelry I would ever see. Cost HIM $1 million. Guy is scum. Will be running fior Burrís seat when his term is up. Thatís all he cares about.

Last Edited: 5/5/2018 12:06:12 AM by cc-cat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/5/2018 1:01:37 AM 
gedunkman wrote:
Just curious how you folks would react to this question: When Obama said during his campaign for re-election that he was for traditional marriage and could not support same-sex marriage was he lying? Only a few short months later, after he was re-elected, he was singing a different tune. He said his position had evolved. How many believe he was telling the truth during the campaign. How about a show of hands.


Obama was being brazenly political. The Democratic strategy was to appeal to moderates during the general, and when it became politically expedient he switched his tune back to his original 1996 stance in favor of gay marriage. His position didn't evolve, and everyone knows it. He has received a lot of criticism from the left though the outcome was ultimately just.

Not really sure what your point is. I assume we'd all agree it's shitty when politicians care more about votes than principle, right?

Also, that's a bad comparison. Obama's 2004 stance was pro-civil union and civil rights for gay couples. He also opposed the Defense of Marriage act in 2004 and consistently supported the LGBTQ community. His history of thought on gay marraige is far, far, far more consistent than Trump's on abortion.

And, of course, Obama wasn't married to a guy when he was opposing gay marriage for the votes. Another big difference.




Last Edited: 5/5/2018 1:03:21 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/6/2018 9:30:08 PM 
I think itís fair to say that both sides have lost any credibility after this past election. Both are full of it. If everyone could just get off their team and come to the middle then we could solve most of the countries problems. Unfortunately everyone knows thatís not going to happen. Both sides are so stuck in their beliefs that they refuse to even consider the other side. This has just been escalating year after year. Iím sick of it. America is sick of it. Nothing will change until we get a third party to rise from this mess.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/7/2018 9:13:09 AM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
I think itís fair to say that both sides have lost any credibility after this past election.


Why is this fair to say? What did the left do to lose credibility last election?

There's a very big difference between a party nominating an unlikable candidate and what's happening on the right. The constant lies, attacks on the constitution, blatant racism and desire to avoid any and all oversight by this current administration's killing the Right's credibility. "Both sidesing" this is crazy.

The President claims, regularly, a deep state cabal is trying to overthrow him. He lies constantly. He endorsed Roy Moore. There's currently a GOP candidate in West Virginia who stands a very good chance of winning the primary who is running a blatantly racist campaign and claims the government blew up a mine in West Virginia killing 29 people.

Last Edited: 5/7/2018 10:36:08 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 5/7/2018 10:38:50 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
I think itís fair to say that both sides have lost any credibility after this past election.


Why is this fair to say? What did the left do to lose credibility last election?

There's a very big difference between a party nominating an unlikable candidate and what's happening on the right. The constant lies, attacks on the constitution, blatant racism and desire to avoid any and all oversight by this current administration's killing the Right's credibility. "Both sidesing" this is crazy.



Itís fair to say because if youíve done any research youíd see all of the corrupt things both sides have done. Based on your post youíre on the lefts team. You are only seeing the corrupt things the right wingers have done and have no interest in looking into anything corrupt the left has done. Itís a joke. Do research! Itís easy. Go on google or if you donít like reading listen to some podcast. Iím not saying the right hasnít donít bad things. They have, theyíre full of it, but hey guess what?! So have the left. Why canít we realize that when Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are our choices to pick between presidents, that the supply chain of our democracy is broken. We need a 3rd party. If you still disagree with me and donít want to do the research yourself then just say so and I will come up with a whole list of reasons the left and right are corrupt.

Last Edited: 5/7/2018 10:55:48 AM by TheBobcatBandit

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