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Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues

Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues
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DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 11:39:09 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


You say you don't agree - and then you agree that we need a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities - hence - you do agree we should not be taking children from their parents.

I'm sure you agree that those seeking asylum should not be separated - just as your ancestors and mine were not ripped from their parents when they came here "by the rules."


I think placing illegal alien families in detention facilities,addresses the issue of not separating families,while assuring that the parents who did commit a crime coming here,are assured of being available for their legal process.

I believe the problems with this raised by the courts could be addressed.

Absent that,the current Zero Tolerance policy of enforcing existing laws may finally force Congress to act.

As Lincoln said,(I'm paraphrasing) "the best way to change a bad law is to enforce it".



I want to go back to this real quick. First off, Lincoln didn't say that--though it is often attributed to him. I believe Grant said something along those lines in his inaugural speech, but I digress.

You have stated multiple times how you are so concerned with enforcing the law, so much so that it seems you're fine with this harsh treatment for a misdemeanor. But I think you're being very disingenuous. If you're so concerned with enforcing the law then why aren't you upset that Mick Mulvaney is not enforcing the Consumer Protection Act? Why aren't you upset that Scott Pruitt's EPA isn't enforcing environmental laws? Enforcement actions have dropped over 30 percent. SEC enforcement actions fell 17% last year. The fact of the matter is that this administration is choosing not to enforce a whole host of laws that they don't like. But I've heard zero concern about that from you or other conservatives who claim to care about law enforcement.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 9,847

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 12:47:31 PM 
For the record, here’s the Lincoln quote that is sometimes paraphrased the way rpbobcat did. The paraphrase does capture the essence of the quote if you understand 19th Century speech patterns and the context of Lincoln’s statement before the Young Men’s Lyceum in Springfield, Ill.,1838, but it is certainly not a literal quote. It’s a very rough paraphrase of the following:

“When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.... but I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed.”


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 1:29:15 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:


I remember when CSN&Y played Polaris/Germain when Neil had just released Living with War. Some folks walked out of that one and the guy behind me yelled at them, "what the f&%$, did you think you were coming to see the Osmonds?" It's Bruce's show and he can do whatever he damn well pleases. Sorry if it made some folks uncomfortable. If they had a heart and soul it should have.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/broadway-has-always-...

This quote from last night's show was exactly what we heard on May 2nd. He just chose to add to it:

I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows, to be told anything. But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. It’s a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit. To be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days, when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isn’t such a bad thing.



Alan,if you read my post,the issue wasn't Bruce's PSA and playing of Joad.
It was inserting it into the show.

This isn't the first time this has come up with SOB.
During the winter Patti missed several shows when she was sick.

Instead of using an understudy,like Soozie Tyrell,he dropped the duets and added different songs.

The N.Y. theater critics were all over the radio talking about it.

They took the position out that this has been billed as a Broadway Show,for which people are paying "Hamilton" prices.
Its not a concert,where Bruce fans look forward to different set lists.

As a Broadway show,a patron has the right to expect the show they paid for.
One critic said,your ticket doesn't say "different show every night".

No different the when John Lithgow,Carey Fisher or Billy Crystal did their one person shows.

Although,in my opinion,what Bruce did when Patti was out was better then "The Boys In The Band".
Jim Parsons hurt his ankle during the curtain call for a Sat. Matinee.
They canceled that night's performance.

As far as the PSA,like I said,do it before or the show or as an "encore".
That's not uncommon on Broadway,including when the casts do PSA's for Actor's Equity.



I can't speak for Alan but I think he got your point. His point seems to be that it is Bruce's show and he can do whatever he wants, traditions be damned. And I agree. It's not a typical Broadway show. We all get that and if you're a Bruce fan you expect him to address this. I don't care if he does it during the show or before the show, I'm just glad he's speaking out.

It's interesting that you seem more concerned about theater etiquette than about children's lives. Misplaced priorities maybe?


Nice post and pretty well sums up what I said. It's a one man show about that one man..The suggestion that an "understudy" could be used for his wife is absolutely hilarious. He and Patti weren't playing a role. They were being themselves not playing a character.

Last Edited: 6/22/2018 9:29:15 AM by Alan Swank

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DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 2:45:51 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
For the record, here’s the Lincoln quote that is sometimes paraphrased the way rpbobcat did. The paraphrase does capture the essence of the quote if you understand 19th Century speech patterns and the context of Lincoln’s statement before the Young Men’s Lyceum in Springfield, Ill.,1838, but it is certainly not a literal quote. It’s a very rough paraphrase of the following:

“When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.... but I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed.”


Yea, that's close enough. I thought he was referring to this quote from Grant that is often misattributed to Lincoln:

I shall on all subjects have a policy to recommend, but none to enforce against the will of the people. Laws are to govern all alike—those opposed as well as those who favor them. I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 9,847

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 4:36:20 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
For the record, here’s the Lincoln quote that is sometimes paraphrased the way rpbobcat did. The paraphrase does capture the essence of the quote if you understand 19th Century speech patterns and the context of Lincoln’s statement before the Young Men’s Lyceum in Springfield, Ill.,1838, but it is certainly not a literal quote. It’s a very rough paraphrase of the following:

“When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.... but I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed.”


Yea, that's close enough. I thought he was referring to this quote from Grant that is often misattributed to Lincoln:

I shall on all subjects have a policy to recommend, but none to enforce against the will of the people. Laws are to govern all alike—those opposed as well as those who favor them. I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution.



That’s a good quote from Grant, which is more direct in its assertion of the principle than Lincoln’s. I wonder if Grant had been aware of what Lincoln said, or more likely, if Lincoln had expressed a similar sentiment to Grant in a private conversation. But, it’s certainly possibly they arrived at the same conclusion totally independently.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 6:56:43 PM 
Last night, at the rally in Duluth, Donald Trump said:

"Can you believe Obama put these children in cages? Unbelievable folks. Unbelievable. But we fixed that!"

I hope everybody who voted for him understands just how little respect he has for you. He lies to your faces in the most blatant ways possible and has literally no respect for your intelligence or ability to discern true from false.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/22/2018 6:59:59 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Last night, at the rally in Duluth, Donald Trump said:

"Can you believe Obama put these children in cages? Unbelievable folks. Unbelievable. But we fixed that!"

I hope everybody who voted for him understands just how little respect he has for you. He lies to your faces in the most blatant ways possible and has literally no respect for your intelligence or ability to discern true from false.


Which makes the litmus test for anyone running for public office a simple one and an even simpler question - do you support the President? A yes response should get a no vote. Period.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/22/2018 8:59:52 AM 
Nice op-ed piece on patriotism.

http://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20180622/jack-daurora-wha...
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/22/2018 9:47:26 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Last night, at the rally in Duluth, Donald Trump said:

"Can you believe Obama put these children in cages? Unbelievable folks. Unbelievable. But we fixed that!"


What is most disheartening is that the majority of people at the rally probably believe him - simply because they blindly embrace him and to them Obama is the source of evil. This is disheartening not because it is trump and he gets away with it (lying and deceiving), but because even educated people continue to be so gullible and so easily manipulated.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/22/2018 11:20:51 AM 
cc-cat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Last night, at the rally in Duluth, Donald Trump said:

"Can you believe Obama put these children in cages? Unbelievable folks. Unbelievable. But we fixed that!"


What is most disheartening is that the majority of people at the rally probably believe him - simply because they blindly embrace him and to them Obama is the source of evil. This is disheartening not because it is trump and he gets away with it (lying and deceiving), but because even educated people continue to be so gullible and so easily manipulated.


They may have gone to school but I'd hardly consider them educated in the true sense of the word.

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/22/2018 11:21:32 AM 
Most prolific and shameless liar in the history of politics. Worst human being I have known of in my lifetime.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/23/2018 12:16:15 PM 
Literally three weeks removed from this administration, voiced by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, cheering the Supreme Court's decision to allow a private bakery owner to turn away gay customers because of personal beliefs, Sarah Huckabee Sanders has criticized a restaurant in Lexington, VA for refusing to serve her based on their personal beliefs.

And Trump supporters are rallying around her and whining about how unfair it is.

To be clear, my belief is that in the United States you should expect service and equal treatment wherever you go. It was the Right that fought to allow businesses to discriminate against customers and sadly, they won. Sarah Huckabee Sanders herself cheered the decision.

This is Republicans reaping what the've sown. They've fought for this version of America. It's not surprising to anybody that they don't like it. It's a shitty, divisive vision for our country and Republican appointed Supreme Court justices made it our reality. Congratulations on the America your policies have just created.

Last Edited: 6/23/2018 12:32:08 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/23/2018 4:39:20 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Literally three weeks removed from this administration, voiced by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, cheering the Supreme Court's decision to allow a private bakery owner to turn away gay customers because of personal beliefs, Sarah Huckabee Sanders has criticized a restaurant in Lexington, VA for refusing to serve her based on their personal beliefs.

And Trump supporters are rallying around her and whining about how unfair it is.

To be clear, my belief is that in the United States you should expect service and equal treatment wherever you go. It was the Right that fought to allow businesses to discriminate against customers and sadly, they won. Sarah Huckabee Sanders herself cheered the decision.

This is Republicans reaping what the've sown. They've fought for this version of America. It's not surprising to anybody that they don't like it. It's a shitty, divisive vision for our country and Republican appointed Supreme Court justices made it our reality. Congratulations on the America your policies have just created.



I think I'll be taking a road trip to eat there in the near future.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/06/23/w...
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/23/2018 4:53:31 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Literally three weeks removed from this administration, voiced by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, cheering the Supreme Court's decision to allow a private bakery owner to turn away gay customers because of personal beliefs, Sarah Huckabee Sanders has criticized a restaurant in Lexington, VA for refusing to serve her based on their personal beliefs.

And Trump supporters are rallying around her and whining about how unfair it is.

To be clear, my belief is that in the United States you should expect service and equal treatment wherever you go. It was the Right that fought to allow businesses to discriminate against customers and sadly, they won. Sarah Huckabee Sanders herself cheered the decision.

This is Republicans reaping what the've sown. They've fought for this version of America. It's not surprising to anybody that they don't like it. It's a shitty, divisive vision for our country and Republican appointed Supreme Court justices made it our reality. Congratulations on the America your policies have just created.



I think I'll be taking a road trip to eat there in the near future.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/06/23/w...


Incidentally, my folks live in Lexington. I've eaten at the Red Hen and it's quite good. It'd be a perfect stop on the way to Charlottesville from Athens for the UVA game. Right off of 64.

Last Edited: 6/23/2018 4:53:58 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/23/2018 5:12:22 PM 
The President continues to lie about the criminality of immigrants to scare his base: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/2...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/23/2018 6:06:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Literally three weeks removed from this administration, voiced by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, cheering the Supreme Court's decision to allow a private bakery owner to turn away gay customers because of personal beliefs, Sarah Huckabee Sanders has criticized a restaurant in Lexington, VA for refusing to serve her based on their personal beliefs.

And Trump supporters are rallying around her and whining about how unfair it is.

To be clear, my belief is that in the United States you should expect service and equal treatment wherever you go. It was the Right that fought to allow businesses to discriminate against customers and sadly, they won. Sarah Huckabee Sanders herself cheered the decision.

This is Republicans reaping what the've sown. They've fought for this version of America. It's not surprising to anybody that they don't like it. It's a shitty, divisive vision for our country and Republican appointed Supreme Court justices made it our reality. Congratulations on the America your policies have just created.



I think I'll be taking a road trip to eat there in the near future.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/06/23/w...


Incidentally, my folks live in Lexington. I've eaten at the Red Hen and it's quite good. It'd be a perfect stop on the way to Charlottesville from Athens for the UVA game. Right off of 64.


Yep, Friday night at the Red Hen with a stay in Lexington, a stop and King Family Winery on the way into Charlottesville Saturday morning, a stop at the Bobcat Bash before the game, and dinner down on the mall Saturday night. Sounds like a great Bobcat weekend in VA in September. Who knows, maybe Bob Glidden might be available for dinner Friday night.

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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/28/2018 1:03:56 PM 
So with the latest Supreme Court ruling, I'd be interested to hear what our resident teachers think will be the effective on membership in their local teachers' unions.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 7/7/2018 12:58:46 PM 
https://youtu.be/FR7h1TzL47E

Interesting take on our current political situation.

I’d like to add too, that just because I might disagree with people on any number of ideas. Whether it be political debates in this tread or disagreeing with Monroe on Solich. At the end of the they’re just ideas, if I sat next to Monroe at a football game I would love him because we’re both cheering for the bobcats. We just have different ideas on what’s best for the bobcats. Same goes for politics, at the end of the day we’re all Americans and we’re on the same team. We all need to come together and unite as citizens and help eachother out regardless of the side we’re on.
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