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Some of these teams like Australia, Spain, and France have been playing together for a large chunk of time. Not the entire team, but at least the core members. We in the USA don't have much of that. Yes, Durant has played several times now, but the bulk of the US roster changes drastically from competition to competition. I think that has to be a factor in knowing tendencies, communication, and playing team basketball. Back to Top spongeBOB CATpants General User Member Since: 8/16/2016 Post Count: 946 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/9/2021 11:02:18 AM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: It's unclear to me how anybody paying attention would suggest this. Yes, the US just won the gold medal. By 5 points. The team included one of the 3 best players alive in Kevin Durant, and if it didn't, there's a very good chance they lose that game. We're 2 years removed from a 7th place finish at the FIBA World Cup, which included losses to Serbia and a double digit loss to France. The team assembled was young and lacked any continuity from the prior Olympic team. The notion that international basketball will only be interesting if the US rolls out a team of college, high schoolers, and NBA rookies seems to completely ignore the fact that a team of 7 NBA all stars and a bunch of solid career NBA guys got beat soundly two years earlier. We're not too far off from a world where the two best players in the world are European (Giannis and Luka). The world's best prospect is a teenager from France. The talent gap's closing, and a team of the best college and high school players would get straight up destroyed at the Olympic level. Our under 21 team just won the gold medal of the U21 FIBA World Cup by 2 points against France. None of the members of France's under 21 team made their Olympic roster. I think people vastly over-estimate how far ahead of the rest of the world we are. But those are the very best possible rosters that France could put together (I'm assuming, again could be very wrong). I'm not sure a starting 5 of Booker (CP3?), KD, LeBron, Anthony Davis, and maybe Karl-Anthony Towns is that close to France. That team would probably give up 140 points a game but would more than likely score 150 a game. Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 3,287 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/9/2021 11:43:16 AM  spongeBOB CATpants wrote: Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: It's unclear to me how anybody paying attention would suggest this. Yes, the US just won the gold medal. By 5 points. The team included one of the 3 best players alive in Kevin Durant, and if it didn't, there's a very good chance they lose that game. We're 2 years removed from a 7th place finish at the FIBA World Cup, which included losses to Serbia and a double digit loss to France. The team assembled was young and lacked any continuity from the prior Olympic team. The notion that international basketball will only be interesting if the US rolls out a team of college, high schoolers, and NBA rookies seems to completely ignore the fact that a team of 7 NBA all stars and a bunch of solid career NBA guys got beat soundly two years earlier. We're not too far off from a world where the two best players in the world are European (Giannis and Luka). The world's best prospect is a teenager from France. The talent gap's closing, and a team of the best college and high school players would get straight up destroyed at the Olympic level. Our under 21 team just won the gold medal of the U21 FIBA World Cup by 2 points against France. None of the members of France's under 21 team made their Olympic roster. I think people vastly over-estimate how far ahead of the rest of the world we are. But those are the very best possible rosters that France could put together (I'm assuming, again could be very wrong). I'm not sure a starting 5 of Booker (CP3?), KD, LeBron, Anthony Davis, and maybe Karl-Anthony Towns is that close to France. That team would probably give up 140 points a game but would more than likely score 150 a game. Apologies, but I'm not quite following the logic here. The argument being made is that we should be sending worse players to increase competitiveness; I'm pointing out that the last two major international tournaments were quite competitive. We finished 7th in one, and 1st with a 5 point victory in the second. I think the point above about continuity is really important. Top teams from other countries play together for decades; there's a huge advantage in that. We win based on talent and athleticism advantages, but the margin's now slim enough that we need the most talented players to go. The notion that we can both a) not have continuity, and b) send more junior, less experienced players seems pretty misguided. Our margin for error is very, very slim. In the scenario where the best possible team opted in, we may dominate. It hasn't actually played out, and the result has been competitive basketball. I think the best team would look something like this: PG: Curry, CP3, Jrue Holiday (mainly for defense) Wings: LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Beal, + a 3 and D guy like Jaylen Brown, or Mikal Bridges Bigs: AD, Adebayo, Towns, maybe one other big body like Lopez That's a very, very good team, of course. They'd win the gold medal, and if they committed to playing for a full cycle and practiced together as "the team" they'd dominate. But the reality is that there's a 50 player pool, and people opt in inconsistently and the teams get pretty sparse pretty quickly. Without experience playing together, losing is very much in play without top players. Last Edited: 8/9/2021 12:48:10 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame Back to Top spongeBOB CATpants General User Member Since: 8/16/2016 Post Count: 946 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/9/2021 1:25:14 PM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: spongeBOB CATpants wrote: Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: It's unclear to me how anybody paying attention would suggest this. Yes, the US just won the gold medal. By 5 points. The team included one of the 3 best players alive in Kevin Durant, and if it didn't, there's a very good chance they lose that game. We're 2 years removed from a 7th place finish at the FIBA World Cup, which included losses to Serbia and a double digit loss to France. The team assembled was young and lacked any continuity from the prior Olympic team. The notion that international basketball will only be interesting if the US rolls out a team of college, high schoolers, and NBA rookies seems to completely ignore the fact that a team of 7 NBA all stars and a bunch of solid career NBA guys got beat soundly two years earlier. We're not too far off from a world where the two best players in the world are European (Giannis and Luka). The world's best prospect is a teenager from France. The talent gap's closing, and a team of the best college and high school players would get straight up destroyed at the Olympic level. Our under 21 team just won the gold medal of the U21 FIBA World Cup by 2 points against France. None of the members of France's under 21 team made their Olympic roster. I think people vastly over-estimate how far ahead of the rest of the world we are. But those are the very best possible rosters that France could put together (I'm assuming, again could be very wrong). I'm not sure a starting 5 of Booker (CP3?), KD, LeBron, Anthony Davis, and maybe Karl-Anthony Towns is that close to France. That team would probably give up 140 points a game but would more than likely score 150 a game. Apologies, but I'm not quite following the logic here. The argument being made is that we should be sending worse players to increase competitiveness; I'm pointing out that the last two major international tournaments were quite competitive. We finished 7th in one, and 1st with a 5 point victory in the second. I think the point above about continuity is really important. Top teams from other countries play together for decades; there's a huge advantage in that. We win based on talent and athleticism advantages, but the margin's now slim enough that we need the most talented players to go. The notion that we can both a) not have continuity, and b) send more junior, less experienced players seems pretty misguided. Our margin for error is very, very slim. In the scenario where the best possible team opted in, we may dominate. It hasn't actually played out, and the result has been competitive basketball. I think the best team would look something like this: PG: Curry, CP3, Jrue Holiday (mainly for defense) Wings: LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Beal, + a 3 and D guy like Jaylen Brown, or Mikal Bridges Bigs: AD, Adebayo, Towns, maybe one other big body like Lopez That's a very, very good team, of course. They'd win the gold medal, and if they committed to playing for a full cycle and practiced together as "the team" they'd dominate. But the reality is that there's a 50 player pool, and people opt in inconsistently and the teams get pretty sparse pretty quickly. Without experience playing together, losing is very much in play without top players. I was mainly responding to your last statement about over-estimating how far ahead the US is regarding talent level. I would agree that most people would over-estimate the gap between the roster the US just rolled out vs the rest of the world. That roster is a JV roster compared to what the potential roster could be but that's just not the world we live in. (thanks LeBron?) Think we were referring back to two different points that were made in the thread. Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,341 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/9/2021 11:45:46 PM  giacomo wrote: I don’t find the games that compelling. Did Giannis play for Greece? I guess I miss the days when there was drama in our college players playing against the Russians. I don’t get a thrill if the current team wins, they are supposed to. Come on, this information is 10 seconds away. If you're going to be that lazy and dismissive, try not to be so public about it. "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top 100%Cat General User Member Since: 1/17/2013 Post Count: 2,491 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/10/2021 8:30:09 AM  giacomo wrote: I don’t find the games that compelling. Did Giannis play for Greece? I guess I miss the days when there was drama in our college players playing against the Russians. I don’t get a thrill if the current team wins, they are supposed to. Certain events are dominated by certain countries, it happens. What can we do to make those events more "compelling?" Tell the Koreans to not win every team gold in archery since it became an event? Ask the Americans to not win all the time in basketball? Maybe we ask the Chinese not to compete in table tennis or badminton every few Olympics so another country can win? Give every country a head start on the Kenyans in long distance running? There won't always be drama in some competitions. Back to Top cc-cat General User Member Since: 4/5/2006 Location: matthews, NC Post Count: 3,821 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/10/2021 11:32:47 AM  100%Cat wrote: giacomo wrote: I don’t find the games that compelling. Did Giannis play for Greece? I guess I miss the days when there was drama in our college players playing against the Russians. I don’t get a thrill if the current team wins, they are supposed to. Certain events are dominated by certain countries, it happens. What can we do to make those events more "compelling?" Tell the Koreans to not win every team gold in archery since it became an event? Ask the Americans to not win all the time in basketball? Maybe we ask the Chinese not to compete in table tennis or badminton every few Olympics so another country can win? Give every country a head start on the Kenyans in long distance running? There won't always be drama in some competitions. /\/\/\/\/\/\ = Spot on. And then you have many of the newer competitions where multiple nations compete for the medals - e.g., skateboarding and BMX. Us old white guys can argue whether they are "sports" or not (are badminton and shooting?) but they had a desired effect - my two nieces (18 and 17) watched and immediately connected on Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat with the US athletes. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/13/2021 7:25:28 PM  JSF wrote: giacomo wrote: I don’t find the games that compelling. Did Giannis play for Greece? I guess I miss the days when there was drama in our college players playing against the Russians. I don’t get a thrill if the current team wins, they are supposed to. Come on, this information is 10 seconds away. If you're going to be that lazy and dismissive, try not to be so public about it. Boo hoo hoo…😥 Back to Top longtiimelurker General User Member Since: 2/2/2017 Post Count: 587 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/19/2021 8:28:05 AM  giacomo wrote: JSF wrote: giacomo wrote: I don’t find the games that compelling. Did Giannis play for Greece? I guess I miss the days when there was drama in our college players playing against the Russians. I don’t get a thrill if the current team wins, they are supposed to. Come on, this information is 10 seconds away. If you're going to be that lazy and dismissive, try not to be so public about it. Boo hoo hoo…😥 Hard to figure out if you are boo hooing because your feelings are hurt or if you are sarcastically boo hooing because you are just that arrogant and aloof. My money is on that you are just that much of an out of touch jerk and JSF is spot on. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/20/2021 2:11:46 PM  Was “lurker” the nickname the girls from Boyd Hall gave you? Back to Top longtiimelurker General User Member Since: 2/2/2017 Post Count: 587 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/22/2021 2:15:57 PM  giacomo wrote: Was “lurker” the nickname the girls from Boyd Hall gave you? For you olde fart, lurker is a term that someone who usually watches message board but does not comment is called. I was a long time lurker choosing not to comment till I saw so much silly stuff that I felt like I needed to step up. I appreciate the personality flaw that gives you the need to insult someone and drag them down to being a Boyd Hall sex maniac to make yourself feel better. Sorry sir, I am not joining you or playing that game. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/22/2021 7:23:36 PM  You just did! Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,047 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/22/2021 9:39:05 PM  Time to stop the flaming. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/23/2021 11:12:40 AM  Jeff McKinney wrote: Time to stop the flaming. There you go again, Jeff, taking away all the fun. We haven't had a good, old-fashioned flame war for quite a spell. I was ready to get out my popcorn and sit back an enjoy this one. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top bobcat 2000 General User Member Since: 1/21/2006 Post Count: 182 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/27/2021 6:15:24 PM  back then we werent winning medals. in fact we often got eliminating after round two. now we win gold often.why go back to being a non medal winner Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Time To Blow Up USA Men’s Basketball    Posted: 8/27/2021 6:40:44 PM  bobcat 2000 wrote: back then we werent winning medals. in fact we often got eliminating after round two. now we win gold often.why go back to being a non medal winner The only time the US didn't medal in men's basketball was 1980 when we boycotted the games. 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